82 réponses à ce sujet

[The Fred]

That build does say it's a PvP-based one, to be fair. I would agree though that you probably don't really need the RDD Strength until you get Divine Power, since before then you could just be a casting-based Cleric.

[MANoob]

The Fred wrote...

That build does say it's a PvP-based one, to be fair. I would agree though that you probably don't really need the RDD Strength until you get Divine Power, since before then you could just be a casting-based Cleric.

Well, read my last post again, I've pointed out that it is not good for PvP either. Totally agreed that you shouldn't go for RDD early if you want the build to have better playability.

And imo a good build, even pvp one, at least should not be a pain in ass to level.

Modifié par MANoob, 25 août 2010 - 07:21 .

[Thorsson64]

I should point out that in the long run taking 8 RDD early gets you more skill points, so in the long run it's better. Of course some people prefer to be more powerful on the way - it's not such a big deal, it isn't that hard to play. You have extra AC, high Str, Inspire Courage, and all the lower level Cleric buffs. It's just not awesome until it gets Extended Divine Power.

As far as Mord's is concerned, I think 'vanilla' it still cannot be targeted by a PC, although I know many PWs have fixed it. PvM very few have bothered to fix the AI to cast it - I've only found one NPC across a dozen worlds. And only high CL builds will be Mording you - Gishes need not apply.

DLoB was copied from the other, and I was a bit lazy about changing the descriptions. It's not the best in PvP. Mind you no Cleric is going to challenge a well build Wiz/Sorc in PvP.

Modifié par Thorsson64, 25 août 2010 - 08:24 .

[MANoob]

Even vanilla mords can target PCs (was patched). There are gish builds with high CL. As for playability, just make a pure cleric and compare it to that particular build. It will outperform a pure cleric in melee only close to epic levels. There are environments where you can play as a wizard katana dualwielder, but DLoB certainly would not be able to solo in some environments I used to play. Look at its stats say at lvl 12. 7 BAB (a pure wizard would have 6) and 19 str, which is not much, because you have all that useless cha. Cleric buffs are few and weak. Hell, a pure lvl 12 fighter would probably beat the crap out of it at that point. Also, if I remember correctly, RDD 5 does not get INT boost, so no lost skillpoints to worry about.

Modifié par MANoob, 25 août 2010 - 08:48 .

[dethia]

Clerics have iron skin + freedom of movement that grants a plethora immunities including immunity to critical hits ;/

[nicethugbert]

IIRC, freedom of movement does not counter penalties imposed by buffs anymore.

[Muffildy]

Game mechanics make it so that the druid is weak compared to a well built cleric.
A druids AC, no matter how insane, is still going to get hit by 1/20 of the attacks because critical hits ignore AC.
A cleric/monk hybrid can obtain 18 atk per round so probability is the druid is going to get hit usually once a round.
Now the cleric if using kaedrins has access to displacement & mirror image which when combined with an easily obtainable 60 or so AC makes the druid have almost no chance of hitting the cleric.


Now, going an alternate route, lets go
3 cleric (pride, illusion)
10 eldrich disciple
14 warlock
3 hellfire warlock

you would have 7th level clr spells, and 13d6 +6d6 + 2d6 (pract invoker) +2d6 (chaus of fel power) eldrich blasts (using kaedrins max/empower) they would do 310 dmg. So now you have a clr with mirror images, displacement, mega AC from shield/armor/combat expertise and throwing massive blasts every turn.

[The Fred]

IIRC a high AC still helps you on Threat Rolls, however. Also, Eldritch Disciple is only in Kaedrin's, I think (and in Kaedrin's, there are loads of new Druid choices and things as well).