38 réponses à ce sujet

[Cypher0020]

Ok I just want the blood dragon or massive armor, weild sword/dagger and kick the tar outta the darkspawn....

So I figure

Strength: 38
Dex: 30
Cons: 30


is that a bad build?? I know 38 Stren is what's required to wear massive armor right? Dex is good for the DW tree... and Cons for health....

[Mezris]

hell with con, pump the crap outta STR and maybe 5-8 WIL

[Last Darkness]

Str max, Dex 30.

[HippeusOmega]

I wanna try out a DW Warrior build also. I made Justice one in Awakening and he was kicking butt right alongside me. I have a question though why 30 dex? Cause i would wanna equip 2 full size weapons on me? Or is that cause of the + stat gear we get and fade bonuses?

[ninja0809]

36 dex is needed, the gear bonuses don't count toward talent requirements, which means you can have 34+2= 36 dex from helm of honnaleath (can't spell it sry) but you still won't be able to learn dual weapon mastery (36 dex requirement) because your base dex isn't high enough.



A word of advice. Don't play dual wield warrior in awakening. Try a 2h warrior.

I know in origins dual wield warrior kicks ass but in awakening 2h warriors get such a big boost it's crazy

[HippeusOmega]

Forgot to ask what is a good specialization for DW Warriors? Wanna say Berserkers and maybe Champion?

[DapperDan77]

OP, 30 Dex is enough if you're happy with a dagger offhand, if you want to dual swords or axes ot w/e you'll need 36.
Blood Dragon plate is great, but Legion of the Dead set is better which you'll get eventually. Only armor set bonus with +damage (I think).

ninja0809 wrote...
A word of advice. Don't play dual wield warrior in awakening. Try a 2h warrior.
I know in origins dual wield warrior kicks ass but in awakening 2h warriors get such a big boost it's crazy

That's twice now you've said this. Stop spreading misinformation. DW warriors are incredible in Awakening.
I'm gonna copy/paste my response from the other thread.

Dual wield (spirit) warriors in Awakening have the highest single targetDPS by a large margin, and even their AoE dmg can be pretty stellar (Can't really do sustained AoE DPS, but have insane AoE burst with massacre).Spirit warrior Dual wield DPS is amazing to start with, about on par with a DW rogue. BUT if you can get + 50% spirit damage from items (+ 10% from Dreamsever, 5% from spiral band, 15% from the spirit warrior talents, 15% from 3 amplification runes and 5% from bugged find vitals) and a pet mage casting vulnerability/affliction hexes, the damage gets ridiculous, practically double that of a DW rogue.
Spirit warriorcan get up to around 80% crit rate (more if you have 2 bards both with song of courage - yes, 2 SoC will stack), and are the only class AFAIK that can hit 350% bonus crit damage. Momentum + Beyond the Veil also takes spirit warriors to exactly the attack speed cap (+50%)Spirit Warriors can hit in excess of 1000 DPS. They are insane and to be honest, grossly overpowered if built right. For instance, I soloed The Baroness on Nightmare in about 30 seconds. And that was without hexes or SoC/Mark of Death/Weak Points.

Some good theorycrafting about why they kick arse in this thread on gameFAQ's
http://www.gamefaqs....kening/54076408

However there's really no need to completely min/max in Awakening, it's stupid easy anyway.There's more to the game than DPS, utility is arguably as important. If you want a good mix of damage and utility then mage may be a better way to go. Arcane warrior for instancecan get absolutely ridiculous defence stats happening and have a much easier time if you want to try soloing Nightmare. I doubt my spirit warrior could solo queen of the blackmarsh (not without using poultices anyway), an Arcane warrior can though.

Modifié par DapperDan77, 14 août 2010 - 12:53 .

[Cypher0020]

@ Dapper



I was gonna focus on sword main hand and dagger in the off hand....kinda copied Duncan's style of sword play.....



So keep 30 Dex for that, max strength.....and Cons, Will, etc...I guess don't apply?



I took Sten to fight the archdemon...he's a THer but he keeps dying faster than my rogue did...ad he had 50 points instrength

[DWSmiley]

Panznerr wrote...

Forgot to ask what is a good specialization for DW Warriors? Wanna say Berserkers and maybe Champion?

With a party, champion is the best spec for any warrior.  I'm not a fan of berserker - the animation is slow and +8 damage quickly becomes trivial.  I like templar as cleanse aura and holy smite are great vs. mages, especially as I never use mana clash.  The first two reaver talents are nice, too.

[HippeusOmega]

DWSmiley wrote...

Panznerr wrote...

Forgot to ask what is a good specialization for DW Warriors? Wanna say Berserkers and maybe Champion?

With a party, champion is the best spec for any warrior.  I'm not a fan of berserker - the animation is slow and +8 damage quickly becomes trivial.  I like templar as cleanse aura and holy smite are great vs. mages, especially as I never use mana clash.  The first two reaver talents are nice, too.

Thanks I'll probably go with Champion/Reaver then till i got it to Awakening and add Spirit Warrior to it.

[Last Darkness]

Copy and Pasted from another thread of mine.



Build 1



Str 38 at least (With Buffs) so you can Wear Evons+Wades Armor



Dex MAX (as much as possible)



Spec - Berserker/Champion



Weapons Daggers (The Roses Thorn, The Edge, Fang)



Build allows for great offense and defensive ability. Your going to want to auto attack more with his build then activly use attack skills, You will want to use as many sustainables like Momentum, Blood Thirst, Rally as you can since your not using you stamina as much. You will easily be able to hit the +50% attack speed cap and with daggers thats attacking super fast and they have naturaly very high armor penetration. You will want to put your best elemental damage runes into the daggers for more damage per hit (Idealy +8 from Berserk, +15 from 3 diff elemental damage runes in the daggers) use a Mage in your party to debuff your targets elemental resitances for more damage. Use Warcry well for its debuff and knockdown ability. With this build you will have a execellent defense and get about +20 from using Champion skills properly(+10 Def from rally and +10 basicaly from the -10 attack debuff on enemies from Warcry)







Build 2



Str Max (As much as possible)



Dex 36 (has to be base 36 no buffs allowed)



Spec - Templar/Reaver, try to avoid Berserker or Champion.



Weapons Two Mainhand Weapons (Veshialle+Starfang optimaly)



This build you will want to auo attack as little as possible since with main hand weapons you want to spam your talents and because of this Berserker and elemental damage runes are ineffective since they only add damage to auto attacks, also whiel Champion is effective for the same reasons its great for any warrior build in actualy play Rally will eat too much stamina up and then rally unlike alot of other sustained uses alot of stamina constantly in combat. Being you wanna spam skills you want to use as few sustainables as possible. Templar abilities are medicore though Cleanse Area does have its uses the ability you want is Holy Smite as its a AOE Stun. In the Reaver Tree you only want Devour for healing and frightening appearance since thats a powerful single target stun that works on some bosses.



Do a search around the forums and you will find a list of gear that lets a Templar get 100%+ Immunity to Magic that you can use. Weapon Runes though i suggest Passives like resitances.

[Last Darkness]

Panznerr wrote...

DWSmiley wrote...

Panznerr wrote...

Forgot to ask what is a good specialization for DW Warriors? Wanna say Berserkers and maybe Champion?

With a party, champion is the best spec for any warrior.  I'm not a fan of berserker - the animation is slow and +8 damage quickly becomes trivial.  I like templar as cleanse aura and holy smite are great vs. mages, especially as I never use mana clash.  The first two reaver talents are nice, too.

Thanks I'll probably go with Champion/Reaver then till i got it to Awakening and add Spirit Warrior to it.

It depends on what weapons your using and your style of fighting, I dont suggest Champion or Berserker if your using a weapon/Style that requires skill spamming as Rally eats a ton of Stamina and Berserk dosnt add damage too skills. Where as I would suggest the Opposite for a duel daggers auto attack spec.

In Awakening try this though Templar/Champion/Spirit Warrior,  Templar gives you a Aoe Stun, Champ gives a AoE Knockdown and Spirit Warrior gives its awesome damage boost. (If your useing a  twohander you can add twohand sweep for another aoe knockdown) 

Though my Suicide build in origens moved into awkening does the highest damage possible in the game. You will be hitting for like 800+ damage a second.

[ninja0809]

DapperDan77 wrote...

ninja0809 wrote...
A word of advice. Don't play dual wield warrior in awakening. Try a 2h warrior.
I know in origins dual wield warrior kicks ass but in awakening 2h warriors get such a big boost it's crazy

That's twice now you've said this. Stop spreading misinformation.

I didn't say they suck, im just saying 2h > dual wield in Awakening

Modifié par ninja0809, 15 août 2010 - 07:56 .

[chefbobby203]

I never realized that the berserker buff didn't add its damage to special moves. I never end up picking up that specialization because the other three have more utility in comparison. Not a big fan of having to constantly reapply the buff anyway while my warden throws his hands in the air like he just don't care

[Yrkoon]

Cypher0020 wrote...

Ok I just want the blood dragon or massive armor, weild sword/dagger and kick the tar outta the darkspawn....

So I figure

Strength: 38
Dex: 30
Cons: 30


is that a bad build?? I know 38 Stren is what's required to wear massive armor right?

Heavy Armor yes.  Like the aforementioned Evons+Wade's dragon scale.

But you'll need 42 strength to wear Massive armor, like the tier 7  Caelin's plate, Wade's dragonbone, or the Warden commander armor. 

But it doesn't matter.  You'll  be  able to easily bring your strength up way higher than that  while still keeping your 30 cunning and  36 dex  (if you want all the dual-wield  talents)

Modifié par Yrkoon, 15 août 2010 - 09:11 .

[Yrkoon]

DapperDan77 wrote...


Dual wield (spirit) warriors in Awakening have the highest single targetDPS by a large margin,

Well, that's a big "so what" there.  In Awakening,  fast kills are not about DPS, they're about Burst damage and insta-kills.  And nothing beats a 2-handed spirit warrior in Burst damage,especially AOE burst damage.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 15 août 2010 - 09:18 .

[soteria]

Unless it's an archer.

[DapperDan77]

chefbobby203 wrote...

I never realized that the berserker
buff didn't add its damage to special moves. I never end up picking up
that specialization because the other three have more utility in
comparison. Not a big fan of having to constantly reapply the buff
anyway while my warden throws his hands in the air like he just don't
care

Berserker's a good spec for damage, but Templar's probably more fun. The automatic deactivation thing is annoying, luckily there's a mod to fix that (if you're on PC).

Yrkoon wrote...
Well, that's a big "so what" there.  In Awakening,  fast kills are not about DPS, they're about Burst damage and insta-kills.  And nothing beats a 2-handed spirit warrior in Burst damage,especially AOE burst damage.

Trouble with 2-H in Awakening is they're more reliant on stamina, once you've used a couple abilities you're screwed, especially if you're running beyond the veil and 2-handed impact. DW warriors still kick arse even when not using activateds.
 As for burst, DW is just as good as 2-H. Twin Strikes for single-target burst and massacre for AoE burst.
2-H warriors are better at sustained AoE, though tbh everything except yellows and above is dead after 1 massacre anyway so sustained 2-H DPS isn't really needed.

[Yrkoon]

DapperDan77 wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...
Well, that's a big "so what" there.  In Awakening,  fast kills are not about DPS, they're about Burst damage and insta-kills.  And nothing beats a 2-handed spirit warrior in Burst damage,especially AOE burst damage.

Trouble with 2-H in Awakening is they're more reliant on stamina, once you've used a couple abilities you're screwed, especially if you're running beyond the veil and 2-handed impact. DW warriors still kick arse even when not using activateds.

2-handers  do not need more than a couple of abilities to pretty much  end   most fights in awakening.

In fact, the only   time  I've run into stamina problems was during the Blackmarsh Dragon fight and perhaps the final  battle.   But that's what Second Wind and the dozens of stamina pots cluttering your inventory are for ...


 

As for burst, DW is just as good as 2-H. Twin Strikes for single-target burst and massacre for AoE burst.
2-H warriors are better at sustained AoE, though tbh everything except yellows and above is dead after 1 massacre anyway so sustained 2-H DPS isn't really needed.

Well, but that's the thing.  This isn't Origins where DPS is the name of the game.  This is Awakening.  Where your characters get so godly that they end whole battles with multiple enemies with a single talent.      So AOE burst damage IS what matters most.   Dual wielders have Massacre  too....  thats true.    2-handers have   Massacre AND Onslaught AND Sweeping Strike.      the boss  and his elites that survive a Massacre will die from the Onslaught or sweeping strike that comes after it.  And lets not forget that all of these talents  base their damage on your strength score..., which  any decently built 2-hander will have more of than any dualwielder --- and and they'll be using   2-handed weapons  which do more damage.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 15 août 2010 - 11:10 .

[DapperDan77]

Yrkoon wrote...
2-handers  do not need more than a couple of abilities to pretty much  end   most fights in awakening.

Same with DW, so no particular advantage to 2-H builds there.

Yrkoon wrote...
Well, but that's the thing.  This isn't Origins where DPS is the name of the game.  This is Awakening.  Where your characters get so godly that they end whole battles with multiple enemies with a single talent.      So AOE burst damage IS what matters most.

Yes, AoE burst damage is important. I never said it wasn't (I said sustained AoE isn't important). However DW does burst just as well if not better than 2-H. Onslaught is good, but it's hard to hit a bunch of enemies with it as effectively as WW as it requires aiming beforehand. If you have to move to the edge of a group then aim to hit everyone, you're spending time moving and not 'bursting". Whirlwind on the other hand animates much faster, and hits in a 360 arc so is easier to catch groups of enemies with and generally doesn't involve as much moving as onslaught to set up effectively. On top of which, Onslaught isn't really burst due to how long it takes to complete the animation. Whirlwind completes it's attack much faster. SS is awesome, but requires more movement than whirlwind if you wanna hit everything.
 

Yrkoon wrote...
Dual wielders have Massacre  too....  thats true.    2-handers have   Massacre AND Onslaught AND Sweeping Strike.     

So it's 3 for 3 then. 2-H gets Mass, Onslaught, SS. DW gets Mass, WW and low blow.

Yrkoon wrote...
the boss  and his elites that survive a Massacre will die from the Onslaught or sweeping strike that comes after it.

Again, no advantage. Massacre + onslaught/sweeping strikes or massacre + whirlwind/low blow, the only things left are bosses. After which point DW is better by miles.

Yrkoon wrote...
And lets not forget that all of these talents  base their damage on your strength score..., which  any decently built 2-hander will have more of than any dualwielder

2-H gets more overall strength but DW gets more attack, and 30% faster attack speed (momentum). Yes, 2-H warrior can get haste, but momentum is faster than haste, has no attack penalty and doesn't require 3 crappy spells on your mage just for the 1 good 4th spell.

Yrkoon wrote...
--- and and they'll be using   2-handed weapons  which do more damage.

Obviously, a 2-handed weapon does more damage than a 1-handed weapon. However it doesn't do more damage than two 1-handed weapons.

Modifié par DapperDan77, 16 août 2010 - 10:01 .

[Yrkoon]

[quote]DapperDan77 wrote...

[quote]Yrkoon wrote...
2-handers  do not need more than a couple of abilities to pretty much  end   most fights in awakening.[/quote]Same with DW, so no particular advantage to 2-H builds there.[/quote]
So much for  DPS then.  So much for the  stamina  argument you brought up earlier, too.


[quote]DapperDan77 wrote...
[quote]Yrkoon wrote...
Well, but that's the thing.  This isn't Origins where DPS is the name of the game.  This is Awakening.  Where your characters get so godly that they end whole battles with multiple enemies with a single talent.      So AOE burst damage IS what matters most.[/quote]Yes, AoE burst damage is important. I never said it wasn't (I said sustained AoE isn't important). However DW does burst just as well if not better than 2-H. Onslaught is good, but it's hard to hit a bunch of enemies with it as effectively as WW as it requires aiming beforehand. If you have to move to the edge of a group then aim to hit everyone, you're spending time moving and not 'bursting". Whirlwind on the other hand animates much faster, and hits in a 360 arc so is easier to catch groups of enemies with and generally doesn't involve as much moving as onslaught to set up effectively. On top of which, Onslaught isn't really burst due to how long it takes to complete the animation. Whirlwind completes it's attack much faster. SS is awesome, but requires more movement than whirlwind if you wanna hit everything.[/quote]
I have no idea what you mean by sustained AOE.  Did  any of us mention any  sustains in our debate here?    I certainly didn't.   Not yet at least.    I will below though... for the first time. 


[quote]DapperDan77 wrote...[quote]Yrkoon wrote...
Dual wielders have Massacre  too....  thats true.    2-handers have   Massacre AND Onslaught AND Sweeping Strike.      [/quote]So it's 3 for 3 then. 2-H gets Mass, Onslaught, SS. DW gets Mass, WW and low blow.[/quote]
Oh, if you're going to include WW and low blow, then I'll also bring up 2-h sweep and  Reaving storm.  Score's now 5-3.  LOL

But lets  dispense with the 1up mumbo jumbo.   There's no "equality" between the two styles when it comes to AOE damage.   The Dual wield style  most certainly wins out in DPS, but it does NOT out damage a 2-hander in  the AOE and Burst arena-which is what matters most in Awakening.    It's not even close, actually.  Not in Awakening.  Not when the average NON-critical hit from a str-based 2 hander is between 150-200  (and with the various AOE talents, that damage  is applied to everyone in an area), while the Dual-wielder's is about HALF that.


[quote]DapperDan77 wrote...
[quote]Yrkoon wrote...
the boss  and his elites that survive a Massacre will die from the Onslaught or sweeping strike that comes after it.[/quote]Again, no advantage. Massacre + onslaught/sweeping strikes or massacre + whirlwind/low blow, the only things left are bosses. After which point DW is better by miles.[/quote]
You've never played a str-based  2-hander in Awakening.  That much is  clear.  You cannot compare an Origin's based skill like WW to Onslaught.  Does your WW do ~200-250 damage per hit?


[quote]DapperDan77 wrote...
[quote]Yrkoon wrote...
And lets not forget that all of these talents  base their damage on your strength score..., which  any decently built 2-hander will have more of than any dualwielder [/quote]2-H gets more overall strength but DW gets more attack, and 30% faster attack speed (momentum). [/quote]
Aah, we're still holding up the DPS  card, are we?  Again, a well built 2-hander in awakening doesn't need to concern himself with doing damage every second, not when  a couple of talents activated back to back end any given  fight


[quote]DapperDan77 wrote...[quote]Yrkoon wrote...
--- and and they'll be using   2-handed weapons  which do more damage.[/quote]Obviously, a 2-handed weapon does more damage than a 1-handed weapon. However it doesn't do more damage than two 1-handed weapons.
[/quote]
Not Really
^do you have numbers to put up which dispute these?

If so, I'd like to see them.  I'd hate to think  that  you're simply Guessing.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 16 août 2010 - 11:06 .

[Gnoster]

I'm running both 2hander and dualwield warrior, and in my opinion a debate over their respective dps is mute considering both kills very fast in Awakening.



My dualwield warrior usually gets 16 Cunning for full Coercion, 36 Dexterity for two longsword type weapons, and then I dump the rest into strength (numbers in Origins story). This basically builds a powerhouse of a warrior, who can kill very fast though he doesn't have the dex to tank much.

[DapperDan77]

[quote]Yrkoon wrote...
So much for  DPS then.  So much for the  stamina  argument you brought up earlier, too.[/quote]
OK so for most fights DPS and stamina aren't a factor for either spec. Fine. That doesn't negate either though, as there are still plenty of boss fights.


[quote]Yrkoon wrote...
I have no idea what you mean by sustained AOE.  Did  any of us mention any  sustains in our debate here?    I certainly didn't.[/quote][quote]Yrkoon wrote...[quote]DapperDan77 wrote...[quote]Yrkoon wrote...
Dual wielders have Massacre  too....  thats true.    2-handers have   Massacre AND Onslaught AND Sweeping Strike.      [/quote]So it's 3 for 3 then. 2-H gets Mass, Onslaught, SS. DW gets Mass, WW and low blow.[/quote] Oh, if you're going to include WW and low blow, then I'll also bring up 2-h sweep and  Reaving storm.  Score's now 5-3.  LOL[/quote]By the time you've massacred, hit onslaught, sweeping strikes, 2-H sweep and reaving storm you're WAY beyond the timeframe of calling anything "burst". So it becomes sustained AoE. Which I already agreed, 2-H does better.

[quote]Yrkoon wrote...But lets  dispense with the 1up mumbo jumbo.   There's no "equality" between the two styles when it comes to AOE damage.   The Dual wield style  most certainly wins out in DPS, but it does NOT out damage a 2-hander in  the AOE and Burst arena-which is what matters most in Awakening.[/quote]AoE does not matter most. Not by a long shot. It becomes irrelevant usually after the first massacre because any trash monsters are dead. As for burst, DW is just as good at that as 2-H. As I've said.
[quote]Yrkoon wrote...
It's not even close, actually.  Not in Awakening.  Not when theaverage NON-critical hit from a str-based 2 hander is between 150-200  (and with the various AOE talents, that damage  is applied to everyone in an area), while the Dual-wielder's is about HALF that.[/quote]75-100 non-crit for a DW warrior? My warrior does way more than that. More like 125-160. In the time it takes a 2-H to land that 150-200 non-crit hit, a DW hit 3-4 times, critting most of the time. Talking of crits, that's another area that DW has a clear advantage. DW has 3 extra weapon runes compared to 2-H, which if using 3x Intensifying equates to 15% crit chance and 60% crit damage bonus (off-hand weapon rune bonuses apply to the main hand weapon and vice-versa). If you're using momentum runes in your 2-H build then DW has 30% crit rate and 120% crit damage more than 2-H.

[quote]Yrkoon wrote...
[quote]DapperDan77 wrote...
[quote]Yrkoon wrote...
theboss  and his elites that survive a Massacre will die from the Onslaught or sweeping strike that comes after it.[/quote]Again, no advantage. Massacre + onslaught/sweeping strikes or massacre + whirlwind/low blow, the only things left are bosses. After which point DW is better by miles.[/quote]You've never played a str-based 2-hander in Awakening.  That much is  clear.  You cannot compare an Origin's based skill like WW to Onslaught.  Does your WW do ~200-250 damage per hit?[/quote]What? Yes, easily.


[quote]Yrkoon wrote...
[quote]DapperDan77 wrote...
[quote]Yrkoon wrote...
And lets not forget that all of these talents  base their damage on your strength score..., which  any decently built 2-hander will have more of than any dualwielder [/quote]2-H gets more overall strength but DW gets more attack, and 30% faster attack speed (momentum). [/quote]Aah, we're still holding up the DPS  card, are we?[/quote]
Where in that sentence did I say DPS? 

[quote]Yrkoon wrote...Again, a well built 2-hander in awakening doesn't need to concern himself with doing damage every second, not when  a couple of talents activated back to back end any given  fight[/quote]You keep saying that as if that's something DW can't do. Both specs can destroy most fights in 2 moves. Nothing new to see here, move on.


[quote]Yrkoon wrote...[quote]DapperDan77 wrote...[quote]Yrkoon wrote...
---
and and they'll be using   2-handed weapons  which do more damage.[/quote]Obviously, a 2-handed weapon does more damage than a 1-handed weapon. However it doesn't do more damage than two 1-handed weapons.
[/quote]
Not Really
^do you have numbers to put up which dispute these?

If so, I'd like to see them.  I'd hate to think  that  you're simply Guessing.[/quote]
I thought you wanted to talk about Awakening? That thread you linked is about Origins mechanics. On top of which the highest damage build in there is a DW build. That thread was supposed to help your argument how?

Modifié par DapperDan77, 16 août 2010 - 01:25 .

[Last Darkness]

Keep Awakening and Origens discussions seperate before this becomes far too argumentive and offtopic please.



And actualy the highest damage character possible ive seen is Warrior Archer in Awkenings with 6,000 + damage hits lol

[Yrkoon]

[quote]DapperDan77 wrote...

[quote]Yrkoon wrote...
So much for  DPS then.  So much for the  stamina  argument you brought up earlier, too.[/quote]
OK so for most fights DPS and stamina aren't a factor for either spec. Fine. That doesn't negate either though, as there are still plenty of boss fights.[/quote]
I listed the only 2 that any of my two-handers have ever encountered a stamina issue against.    If you've had stamina troubles with more than those two,  then  Perhaps you simply build/use your 2-handers sub-optimally?  if so, then this debate is kinda pointless.  I'm not here to   compare   sub-optimal builds.



[quote]DapperDan77 wrote...
By the time you've massacred, hit onslaught, sweeping strikes, 2-H sweep and reaving storm you're WAY beyond the timeframe of calling anything "burst". So it becomes sustained AoE. Which I already agreed, 2-H does better.[/quote]
Um... no.  I'm not here to entertain alternative definitions of Burst damage, either.  And I don't recall arguing that I'd ever use, or ever need to use, every single one of those talents in one fight.   Usually just a couple of them is enough  to end  just about any of the fights in Awakening.


[quote]DapperDan77 wrote...
[quote].

Yrkoon wrote...But lets  dispense with the 1up mumbo jumbo.   There's no "equality" between the two styles when it comes to AOE damage.   The Dual wield style  most certainly wins out in DPS, but it does NOT out damage a 2-hander in  the AOE and Burst arena-which is what matters most in Awakening.[/quote]AoE does not matter most. Not by a long shot. It becomes irrelevant usually after the first massacre because any trash monsters are dead. As for burst, DW is just as good at that as 2-H. As I've said.[/quote]
Er... first off, Massacre IS burst damage.  So, as you say,  there's all your trash mobs dead.  That leaves Elites and Bosses.    After a massacre, it  generally takes a single Onslaught   (another burst damage attack) to kill any elite and just about ANY boss.  We cannot say the same for Twin Strikes, or Low blow.   They  neither  have  the number of hits, nor the consistant higher than  critical hit damage for each swing   to compare with Onlaught


[quote]DapperDan77 wrote...[quote]Yrkoon wrote...

It's not even close, actually.  Not in Awakening.  Not when theaverage NON-critical hit from a str-based 2 hander is between 150-200  (and with the various AOE talents, that damage  is applied to everyone in an area), while the Dual-wielder's is about HALF that.[/quote]75-100 non-crit for a DW warrior? My warrior does way more than that. More like 125-160.[/quote]
Oh?

What's your strength score?  What sustains are you running?  What weapons are you using?
 





[quote]In the time it takes a 2-H to land that 150-200 non-crit hit, a DW hit 3-4 times,[/quote]
Ok, this out of context arguing from you is grating on my nerves.   We have already discussed  DPS  and we've agreed on it.  But that passage of mine you quoted here was about non-critical damage as it is applied to AOE talents  (like  the hits scored in a 2-h sweep;  or  a whirlwind,  or a  Sweeping strike)   A Dual-wielder  cannot  score 3 hits  in the time it takes a 2-hander to pull any one of these talents off  (which btw, will be doing more than 1 hit).

A dual-wielder CAN, however, get a Whirlwind attack off in that time frame   Wanna compare the damage between a whirlwind attack and a 2-h sweep?
 








[quote]Talking of crits, that's another area that DW has a clear advantage. DW has 3 extra weapon runes compared to 2-H, which if using 3x Intensifying equates to 15% crit chance and 60% crit damage bonus (off-hand weapon rune bonuses apply to the main hand weapon and vice-versa). If you're using momentum runes in your 2-H build then DW has 30% crit rate and 120% crit damage more than 2-H.[/quote]
LOL 

You're serious, right?  Um no.    There will never come a time  in Awakening when a  Dualwielder's critical damage is higher than a strength built 2-hander's  critical damage.     a two-hander who's NORMAL hit damage  is already  40-50% higher than a dual-wielders, will be doing more damage  with his +60% critical damage modifier than a dualwielder with his 120%. critical  damage modifier. 


As for crit rates,   2-handers don't need them.  since they can crit AT WILL in any fight.  Yes.  At will.     They have  6, count'em, 6 talents that generate instant criticals.  Meaning  in 99% of the fights in this game, their crit rate will be 100%


[quote]DapperDan77 wrote...
[quote]Yrkoon wrote...
[quote]DapperDan77 wrote...
[quote]Yrkoon wrote...
theboss  and his elites that survive a Massacre will die from the Onslaught or sweeping strike that comes after it.[/quote]Again, no advantage. Massacre + onslaught/sweeping strikes or massacre + whirlwind/low blow, the only things left are bosses. After which point DW is better by miles.[/quote]You've never played a str-based 2-hander in Awakening.  That much is  clear.  You cannot compare an Origin's based skill like WW to Onslaught.  Does your WW do ~200-250 damage per hit?[/quote]What? Yes, easily.[/quote]
Prove it.



[quote]DapperDan77 wrote...
 









[quote]Yrkoon wrote...Again, a well built 2-hander in awakening doesn't need to concern himself with doing damage every second, not when  a couple of talents activated back to back end any given  fight[/quote]You keep saying that as if that's something DW can't do.[/quote]
Then this discussion is pointless.  We've come to the conclusion that the two are equal in Awakening, since it doesn't take more than  a couple of activated talents to end those fights.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 16 août 2010 - 03:36 .