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Bioware should break a barrier and put a African American character in DA2


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#251
SirShreK

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Tirigon wrote...


You make some vali points BUT Thedas is based on medieval Europe. So there are no blacks. That´s a fact.

Now, you could criticise "Why do they have to base every game on Europe?" and I´d be totally with you. It sucks, and games like Jade Empire show that it´s not necessary for a good game either.

It´s a fantasy game, not a medieval life simulator, and there is really NO reason why all humans should be white in this fantasy world (though they aren´t, ever seen Chasind?:innocent:)


However, BioWare made the mistake to base their game on medieval Europe, and therefore they have to stick with this or they make themselves ridiculous.


Duh?

#252
CalloNumenel

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slimgrin wrote...

I think in the setting of DA, Inserting a minority just to do it or without any intent, simply reduces that minority to a 'token' addition. As I said, it could be cool if done right, but it shouldn't seem forced.

This was basically what I meant right here.

And to repeat what others said, there are people of varying light and dark complexions in the game.

#253
Thiefy

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Tirigon wrote...

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...


Wow is it really THAT big a deal that some people would actually want NPCs and party members to look ethinically similar to them? Posted Image Seriously, and don't go on about how it doesn't fit and crap, because for crying out loud, there's demons that feed off of you while you sleep, dwarves are a race as opposed to a genetic defect, and you get to shank dragons that are easily x100 times your size (and do so with a cool a finishing blow, mind you) multiple times... it's not THAT farfetched to think black people or their in game equivalent would make a weapon shop, or be the advisor to some kind of prominent political figure or whatever. Considering all the other in game feats we accomplish I don't thing it's that hard or difficult to ninja a few black npcs into the game. Yeah, it's a fantasy game, so why is it so hard for people to imagine something other than white people in a given setting.

and i don't get why there are so many people against it either. it doesn't fit the environment? only if it can work properly? seriously? ever heard of a boat? marvelous contraption used to ferry over goods and people from one far away location to another. i hear the hero of DA2 will be using one in his/her adventures to get over to kirkwall. it's not as hard as you make it out to be, and yeah people are going to get upset when you tell them they don't belong someplace or have no business being there, especially over something so trivial as their looks.

i'm not even black, loved the first game to bits (bought it 3 times within the span of like 2 weeks, plus 2 guides, one paperback and one hardback) and i can understand why people are upset. Posted Image They aren't asking that you bend the will of thedas to their whims, they just want the same kind of immersion as everyone else, is all. I think it's even crappier that people would say there's not point to topics like this or they ought to be locked.

It's basically brushing people's concern under the rug because it makes other people feel umcomfortable. I mean would anyone here REALLY be upset if Bioware decided to add more African Americans/black people/(whatever word you prefer) into the game? Or is this whole fuss really about the TERM used in the title? We all know *exactly* what the OP was talking about and the attempts to turn this thread into political discussion about what's the right and wrong way to name something is nothing but a bunch of rabble rousing.

(and btw callo, this whole post isn't geared towards you, so please don't think it is my trying to attack you, as that was not my intention)



You make some vali points BUT Thedas is based on medieval Europe. So there are no blacks. That´s a fact.

Now, you could criticise "Why do they have to base every game on Europe?" and I´d be totally with you. It sucks, and games like Jade Empire show that it´s not necessary for a good game either.

It´s a fantasy game, not a medieval life simulator, and there is really NO reason why all humans should be white in this fantasy world (though they aren´t, ever seen Chasind?:innocent:)


However, BioWare made the mistake to base their game on medieval Europe, and therefore they have to stick with this or they make themselves ridiculous.

I don't think they'd be making themselves look ridiculous. Like you said it's not a medieval sims, so that alone should be reason enough. How could they make themselves look anymore ridculous than allow a PC to be black but have noone else in the world look like you?

They may have borrowed some things from Europe, but Thedas is NOT Europe. It's an entirely seperate world with it's own rules and regulations, none of which say "there are no black people", unless a dev specifically comes in here and says that themselves. Furthermore referrences to other games are moot. This isn't Jade Empire, this is Dragon Age. That's comparing apples to oranges. It doesn't matter that they are being sold by the same farmer (Bioware), they are still two different fruits.

Like other people, I thought that some NPCs already looked black and was fine with it but clearly a lot of people thought it was, as other people put it, a "white guy with a really dark tan." I don't share their opinion but I get where they are coming from and it miffs me that a lot of other forum goers are telling them to more or less shut up and put up with it because they are personally happy with the way the game is. Rude, much?

#254
.shea.

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Some nations in Thedas are (loosely) based on nations that have existed (some that still do) in Europe (Ferelden=England, Antiva=Italy/Spain, Tevinter=Byzantine Empire, Anderfels=Holy Roman Empire etc), but that doesn't mean all of them are or have to be, Rivain from what I've gathered seems to have an arabic/indian vibe to it.

#255
Bisafan

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The argument that Thedas is based on medieval europe and hence there
can't be any black-/asian-/whatever-looking people is pretty lame. All
of them could be black despite the culture is based on europe. The
continent of Thedas is unlike europe on the southern hemisphere not on
the northern. Furthermore the humans came from another continent then
Thedas as mentioned in the codex. They could be from anywhere on the
globe.

There is also gender equality in Thedas which didn't exist in medieval europe (or present-day-europe for that matter).

#256
Annihilator27

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Tirigon wrote...

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...


Wow is it really THAT big a deal that some people would actually want NPCs and party members to look ethinically similar to them? Posted Image Seriously, and don't go on about how it doesn't fit and crap, because for crying out loud, there's demons that feed off of you while you sleep, dwarves are a race as opposed to a genetic defect, and you get to shank dragons that are easily x100 times your size (and do so with a cool a finishing blow, mind you) multiple times... it's not THAT farfetched to think black people or their in game equivalent would make a weapon shop, or be the advisor to some kind of prominent political figure or whatever. Considering all the other in game feats we accomplish I don't thing it's that hard or difficult to ninja a few black npcs into the game. Yeah, it's a fantasy game, so why is it so hard for people to imagine something other than white people in a given setting.

and i don't get why there are so many people against it either. it doesn't fit the environment? only if it can work properly? seriously? ever heard of a boat? marvelous contraption used to ferry over goods and people from one far away location to another. i hear the hero of DA2 will be using one in his/her adventures to get over to kirkwall. it's not as hard as you make it out to be, and yeah people are going to get upset when you tell them they don't belong someplace or have no business being there, especially over something so trivial as their looks.

i'm not even black, loved the first game to bits (bought it 3 times within the span of like 2 weeks, plus 2 guides, one paperback and one hardback) and i can understand why people are upset. Posted Image They aren't asking that you bend the will of thedas to their whims, they just want the same kind of immersion as everyone else, is all. I think it's even crappier that people would say there's not point to topics like this or they ought to be locked.

It's basically brushing people's concern under the rug because it makes other people feel umcomfortable. I mean would anyone here REALLY be upset if Bioware decided to add more African Americans/black people/(whatever word you prefer) into the game? Or is this whole fuss really about the TERM used in the title? We all know *exactly* what the OP was talking about and the attempts to turn this thread into political discussion about what's the right and wrong way to name something is nothing but a bunch of rabble rousing.

(and btw callo, this whole post isn't geared towards you, so please don't think it is my trying to attack you, as that was not my intention)



You make some vali points BUT Thedas is based on medieval Europe. So there are no blacks. That´s a fact.

Now, you could criticise "Why do they have to base every game on Europe?" and I´d be totally with you. It sucks, and games like Jade Empire show that it´s not necessary for a good game either.

It´s a fantasy game, not a medieval life simulator, and there is really NO reason why all humans should be white in this fantasy world (though they aren´t, ever seen Chasind?:innocent:)


However, BioWare made the mistake to base their game on medieval Europe, and therefore they have to stick with this or they make themselves ridiculous.


They didnt base the game on medieval europe. You should probably know some stuff about history before making claims. There were blacks in medieval Europe. They were sometimes called moors. Also blacks could exist in Thedas because of the description of people from Rivian.

#257
Annihilator27

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Bisafan wrote...

The argument that Thedas is based on medieval europe and hence there
can't be any black-/asian-/whatever-looking people is pretty lame. All
of them could be black despite the culture is based on europe. The
continent of Thedas is unlike europe on the southern hemisphere not on
the northern. Furthermore the humans came from another continent then
Thedas as mentioned in the codex. They could be from anywhere on the
globe.

There is also gender equality in Thedas which didn't exist in medieval europe (or present-day-europe for that matter).


That was dumb as hell, What kind of argument is that.

#258
Tirigon

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monkeycamoran wrote...

Tirigon wrote...
However, BioWare made the mistake to base their game on medieval Europe


Bioware didn't make a mistake basing their game on medieval Europe. They don't have to explore race to create a self-contained world with diverse ethnicities.


It´s still a mistake. They could have based it on something much more interesting than medieval f*cking europe. When i´m interested in that I rather listen to Medieval Rock.

#259
B3taMaxxx

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gamerm wrote...

I think they should put a black person in our party or main character, they did it on Oblivion. ;)



 It was darn near impossible to make characters look decent if you were trying to make them 'white'.

 I always made my characters dark skinned in Oblivion. It was the only way for a human to look, well, human.

 Redgaurd FTW.

#260
Tirigon

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Chouan wrote...

Some nations in Thedas are (loosely) based on nations that have existed (some that still do) in Europe (Ferelden=England, Antiva=Italy/Spain, Tevinter=Byzantine Empire, Anderfels=Holy Roman Empire etc), but that doesn't mean all of them are or have to be, Rivain from what I've gathered seems to have an arabic/indian vibe to it.


Not only loosely. It´s based on them in an "in-ya-face" way that is really disgusting.

#261
Tirigon

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B3taMaxxx wrote...

gamerm wrote...

I think they should put a black person in our party or main character, they did it on Oblivion. ;)



 It was darn near impossible to make characters look decent if you were trying to make them 'white'.

 I always made my characters dark skinned in Oblivion. It was the only way for a human to look, well, human.

 Redgaurd FTW.



Funny how tastes differ. I couldn´t make a good-looking thingy until I got a mod that allowed totally white skin.

#262
Vandrayke

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The "it's based on medieval europe" argument is weak. If that's the case, should they include a bunch of asians, persians, and north african muslims in the game?



I actually understand the difficulty of incorporating different races from "our world" into the game, though... they already deal with diversity and culture issues with all the different in-game races, and introducing ethnic groups that we're familiar with would make for several complicated issues to deal with that they'd rather avoid. How to make the blacks/asians/indians/whatever act, what is their story, what is their culture, etc.

#263
Sauronych

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I think it would be completely fine to introduce a dark-skinned character... with proper lore explaining his/her appearance. If, however, they make such a character just to be politically correct, then I'm against that. I don't want video games to become like every Hollywood movie where at least one character is african american even if it doesn't make any sense.

#264
Tirigon

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annihilator27 wrote...


They didnt base the game on medieval europe. You should probably know some stuff about history before making claims. There were blacks in medieval Europe. They were sometimes called moors. Also blacks could exist in Thedas because of the description of people from Rivian.


Stop flaming me ifI know more than you....


Anyways, yes, they did base DAO on medieval Europe.

#265
Bobad

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Vandrayke wrote...

The "it's based on medieval europe" argument is weak. If that's the case, should they include a bunch of asians, persians, and north african muslims in the game?

I actually understand the difficulty of incorporating different races from "our world" into the game, though... they already deal with diversity and culture issues with all the different in-game races, and introducing ethnic groups that we're familiar with would make for several complicated issues to deal with that they'd rather avoid. How to make the blacks/asians/indians/whatever act, what is their story, what is their culture, etc.


This, it's far easier to explore ethnic prejudices without causing offence, by using folks that don't have real world counterparts to take offence at any associated dialogue in the game.

#266
Tirigon

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Bobad wrote...

This, it's far easier to explore ethnic prejudices without causing offence, by using folks that don't have real world counterparts to take offence at any associated dialogue in the game.


Only it doesn´t work. There was a thread here about how the elves suffering and downfall is based on Jewish history.

#267
Annihilator27

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Tirigon wrote...

annihilator27 wrote...


They didnt base the game on medieval europe. You should probably know some stuff about history before making claims. There were blacks in medieval Europe. They were sometimes called moors. Also blacks could exist in Thedas because of the description of people from Rivian.


Stop flaming me ifI know more than you....


Anyways, yes, they did base DAO on medieval Europe.


It still stands that there were blacks in Medieval times. Something that you didnt know.

#268
Seifz

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I still think the idea that a certain type of person must exist in the Dragon Age setting just because it exists in our world is poor. Any expectations of seeing "race X" should be non-existent and complaining about the lack of "race X" or claiming that anyone is racist because that race isn't included is just... fail. Yes, fail.

#269
B3taMaxxx

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annihilator27 wrote...

Tirigon wrote...

annihilator27 wrote...


They didnt base the game on medieval europe. You should probably know some stuff about history before making claims. There were blacks in medieval Europe. They were sometimes called moors. Also blacks could exist in Thedas because of the description of people from Rivian.


Stop flaming me ifI know more than you....


Anyways, yes, they did base DAO on medieval Europe.


It still stands that there were blacks in Medieval times. Something that you didnt know.



 And where were they? Much less Asains, Pacific Islanders, Arabians and so on?

#270
Bobad

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Tirigon wrote...

Bobad wrote...

This, it's far easier to explore ethnic prejudices without causing offence, by using folks that don't have real world counterparts to take offence at any associated dialogue in the game.


Only it doesn´t work. There was a thread here about how the elves suffering and downfall is based on Jewish history.


Well of course there is the fact that people can find allegory in just about anything

#271
Annihilator27

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B3taMaxxx wrote...

annihilator27 wrote...

Tirigon wrote...

annihilator27 wrote...


They didnt base the game on medieval europe. You should probably know some stuff about history before making claims. There were blacks in medieval Europe. They were sometimes called moors. Also blacks could exist in Thedas because of the description of people from Rivian.


Stop flaming me ifI know more than you....


Anyways, yes, they did base DAO on medieval Europe.


It still stands that there were blacks in Medieval times. Something that you didnt know.



 And where were they? Much less Asains, Pacific Islanders, Arabians and so on?


Asians and Pacific Islanders I do not know. But Moors(A term given by the europeans) Consisted of Black Africans, Arabs, and Berber's. Some areas I know moors were in were Britain, France, Switzerland, Austria, Hungary, Poland, and Romania.

Modifié par annihilator27, 15 août 2010 - 05:46 .


#272
Guest_JoePinasi1989_*

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annihilator27 wrote...

B3taMaxxx wrote...

annihilator27 wrote...

Tirigon wrote...

annihilator27 wrote...


They didnt base the game on medieval europe. You should probably know some stuff about history before making claims. There were blacks in medieval Europe. They were sometimes called moors. Also blacks could exist in Thedas because of the description of people from Rivian.


Stop flaming me ifI know more than you....


Anyways, yes, they did base DAO on medieval Europe.


It still stands that there were blacks in Medieval times. Something that you didnt know.



 And where were they? Much less Asains, Pacific Islanders, Arabians and so on?


Asians and Pacific Islanders I do not know. But Moors(A term given by the europeans) Consisted of Black Africans, Arabs, and Berber's. Some areas I know moors were in were Britain, France, Switzerland, Austria, Hungary, Poland, and Romania.


There were Moors in Romania? I don't remember learning anything about Moors in Middle Ages Romania. Hmm, need to research this...

EDIT

Posted Image

See that part in northern Africa where it says "Kingdom of the Mauri, the Moors" and "Roman-Moor King"? That's the general zone I thought Moors were from (from an European POV).

Modifié par JoePinasi1989, 15 août 2010 - 06:05 .


#273
Vandrayke

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B3taMaxxx wrote...

annihilator27 wrote...

Tirigon wrote...

annihilator27 wrote...


They didnt base the game on medieval europe. You should probably know some stuff about history before making claims. There were blacks in medieval Europe. They were sometimes called moors. Also blacks could exist in Thedas because of the description of people from Rivian.


Stop flaming me ifI know more than you....


Anyways, yes, they did base DAO on medieval Europe.


It still stands that there were blacks in Medieval times. Something that you didnt know.



 And where were they? Much less Asains, Pacific Islanders, Arabians and so on?


lots of it depends on the timeline... asians came through northeastern europe (huns) early on.  Moors were mainly north african muslims who conquered most of Iberia several hundred years later.  Arabians would be the Ottomans... after they conquered Constantinople they rolled west through the Balkans at the end of the middle ages.  

#274
Vandrayke

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JoePinasi1989 wrote...

annihilator27 wrote...

B3taMaxxx wrote...

annihilator27 wrote...

Tirigon wrote...

annihilator27 wrote...


They didnt base the game on medieval europe. You should probably know some stuff about history before making claims. There were blacks in medieval Europe. They were sometimes called moors. Also blacks could exist in Thedas because of the description of people from Rivian.


Stop flaming me ifI know more than you....


Anyways, yes, they did base DAO on medieval Europe.


It still stands that there were blacks in Medieval times. Something that you didnt know.



 And where were they? Much less Asains, Pacific Islanders, Arabians and so on?


Asians and Pacific Islanders I do not know. But Moors(A term given by the europeans) Consisted of Black Africans, Arabs, and Berber's. Some areas I know moors were in were Britain, France, Switzerland, Austria, Hungary, Poland, and Romania.


There were Moors in Romania? I don't remember learning anything about Moors in Middle Ages Romania. Hmm, need to research this...

.

Romania would have been occupied by the Ottoman Empire, and more arabic.  But lands in those times weren't exactly as homogeneous as people think they were, so really there were all kinds of people everywhere. 

#275
Sigma Tauri

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Tirigon wrote...

It´s still a mistake. They could have
based it on something much more interesting than medieval f*cking
europe. When i´m interested in that I rather listen to Medieval Rock.


They could've. No one's stopping them when Bioware was writing down ideas. But, they didn't. I was also disappointed Bioware based their elves and dwarves on expectations. The qunari happens to be the only race that isn't pidgeon-holed into a real-world culture despite calling them Thedas's Ottomans. Bioware treated them with as an actual "other," a total class of their own without depending on subversions of stereotypes. But, I'm not crying over their decisions. They can be as generic as they want. Bioware's masters of their own campaign.

Not only loosely. It´s based on them in an "in-ya-face" way that is really disgusting.


I find the whole Orlesians are French cheap, too.