43 réponses à ce sujet

[DPSSOC]

I just finished up Redcliffe and started the talk of who to put forward for the throne to oppose Loghain and it occurred to me, what`s stopping my Human Noble from stepping up?  When you consider that Alistair doesn't want the position why not put forth the last of a well respected line that pre-dates the kingdom in opposition to what many nobles would see as the whiny brat of an upstart (or the upstart himself).

If I'm understanding the history correctly the ruler of Fereldan was really just a teryn the other teryn's swore fealty to; so with Cailan's line ended (Thierin I think) wouldn't it make sense to go to the only remaining teryn with a hereditary claim to nobility.

Now I can understand why Bioware wouldn't include this option but I'm just thinking from a story perspective it seems odd.

[Sarah1281]

It's not that odd. You might have the bloodline but you don't have the political backing. The nobles all fall in line behind either Anora or Eamon (who supports Alistair). Eamon wants his precious Theirin bloodline on the throne so he wouldn't lend you his support and Anora wants to be on the throne alone. You, personally, are virtually unknown and your teynir was taken by Howe.

[Monica21]

Sarah1281 wrote...

It's not that odd. You might have the bloodline but you don't have the political backing. The nobles all fall in line behind either Anora or Eamon (who supports Alistair). Eamon wants his precious Theirin bloodline on the throne so he wouldn't lend you his support and Anora wants to be on the throne alone. You, personally, are virtually unknown and your teynir was taken by Howe.

I think that the HN could have stronger polital backing than Anora or Alistair. Anora's father is still referred to by some as a commoner even though he isn't. Anora's claim as the wife of the king is incredibly shaky. Bastards are very rarely crowned. The Couslands have been around forever, the HN actually is known if you talk to the nobles in Denerim. If they don't know you then they know your father. The ternyr was taken under questionable circumstances and you have the sympathies of most of the nobles. There's pretty much no question that it's still yours, you just have to get it back.

I've almost always thought that a Cousland has just as much right to rule as any of the other candidates, and possibly the strongest claim. Anora even says that marrying a male Cousland will strengthen her claim, so it's not as if your family name has been left to the scrapheap of history.

[adneate]

It would only really work if Dragon Age was not an RPG since any attempt to establish a new ruling dynasty would require a massive military campaign waged against the armies of the other nobles also trying to gain power. This would mean that a Cousland would have to not only find support to take back their lands in Highever but then moving those armies against dissenters and in the end a massive struggle against Loghain's forces resulting in the total defeat or capitulation of Denerim and Gwaren. Then after all that you'd still have to lead the forces against The Blight and hope they won't stab you in the back on the battlefield and leave your forces to get slaughtered so they don't have to accept you as King. If you want stuff like that play Medieval Total War.

[Sarah1281]

Monica21 wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

It's not that odd. You might have the bloodline but you don't have the political backing. The nobles all fall in line behind either Anora or Eamon (who supports Alistair). Eamon wants his precious Theirin bloodline on the throne so he wouldn't lend you his support and Anora wants to be on the throne alone. You, personally, are virtually unknown and your teynir was taken by Howe.

I think that the HN could have stronger polital backing than Anora or Alistair. Anora's father is still referred to by some as a commoner even though he isn't. Anora's claim as the wife of the king is incredibly shaky. Bastards are very rarely crowned. The Couslands have been around forever, the HN actually is known if you talk to the nobles in Denerim. If they don't know you then they know your father. The ternyr was taken under questionable circumstances and you have the sympathies of most of the nobles. There's pretty much no question that it's still yours, you just have to get it back.

I've almost always thought that a Cousland has just as much right to rule as any of the other candidates, and possibly the strongest claim. Anora even says that marrying a male Cousland will strengthen her claim, so it's not as if your family name has been left to the scrapheap of history.

Yes, they know your father just like they know Alistair and Anora's. Anora's claim as the wife of the King is shaky but she's the daughter of the other teynir. And who actually does call Loghain a commoner during the game? Aside from Loghain, of course, who is convinced that's what the other nobles think of him. Eamon might hold that belief but he's far more traditional than most. When you first arrive in Denerim for the Landsmeet all the nobles are pretty firmly on Anora's side since she has Loghain, has been ruling, and there's a Blight coming up. Anora's been in court most of her life while you've been kept away. She's also been the Queen for five years ruling in Cailan's stead and everybody knows it. Not everyone is so very concerned with the plight of the elves and so what Vaughan gets up to is not enough for them to decide she needs to be replaced. She also, as Queen, has built up a considerable political backing. Her being Queen is good for them so they'll support her.

Alistair has no better claim than Anora but it's not his support. Eamon is widely known to be popular and influential in the Landsmeet. He's got the nobles who aren't on Anora's side in his corner. He wants Alistair to rule and everyone assumes that he'll be ruling through Alistair (or at least being his advisor) so his supporters go for Alistair.

How does the fact everyone loved your dad enough for them to put a complete unknown on the throne? You're not your dad. The people don't love you. They don't even know you. It doesn't matter how special you feel your Cousland pedigree is, those who care about things like that think Alistair's Theirin bloodline is even specialer and those who don't like Anora's proven ability. There's really no room for a third candidate to enter and you'd just end up splitting Alistair's support and giving Anora the throne easily if you tried.

[Monica21]

Sarah1281 wrote...
How does the fact everyone loved your dad enough for them to put a complete unknown on the throne? You're not your dad. The people don't love you. They don't even know you. It doesn't matter how special you feel your Cousland pedigree is, those who care about things like that think Alistair's Theirin bloodline is even specialer and those who don't like Anora's proven ability. There's really no room for a third candidate to enter and you'd just end up splitting Alistair's support and giving Anora the throne easily if you tried.

Okay, apparently I wasn't clear enough. The Couslands are the noblest nobles of all the nobles, having been around longer than the Theirins. You are not unknown. The nobles recognize you in the tavern. It doesn't matter if they love you, because they don't love Alistair. They know less about Alistair than they do about you. Anora's first-generation nobility doesn't help her claim. The only thing that does is the fact that she's queen. Despite the fact that she's essentially been ruling for five years you can still talk the nobles out of voting for her and voting for someone who is not a trueborn son of Maric's. He's unproven and untested as a ruler, knows nothing about court and nothing about politics.

If I can convince a bunch of nobles to vote for a bastard son then I can certainly convince them to vote for the last (known) living Cousland heir.

[Sarah1281]

Monica21 wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...
How does the fact everyone loved your dad enough for them to put a complete unknown on the throne? You're not your dad. The people don't love you. They don't even know you. It doesn't matter how special you feel your Cousland pedigree is, those who care about things like that think Alistair's Theirin bloodline is even specialer and those who don't like Anora's proven ability. There's really no room for a third candidate to enter and you'd just end up splitting Alistair's support and giving Anora the throne easily if you tried.

Okay, apparently I wasn't clear enough. The Couslands are the noblest nobles of all the nobles, having been around longer than the Theirins. You are not unknown. The nobles recognize you in the tavern. It doesn't matter if they love you, because they don't love Alistair. They know less about Alistair than they do about you. Anora's first-generation nobility doesn't help her claim. The only thing that does is the fact that she's queen. Despite the fact that she's essentially been ruling for five years you can still talk the nobles out of voting for her and voting for someone who is not a trueborn son of Maric's. He's unproven and untested as a ruler, knows nothing about court and nothing about politics.

If I can convince a bunch of nobles to vote for a bastard son then I can certainly convince them to vote for the last (known) living Cousland heir.

But they're not voting for Alistair. They're voting for Eamon's proxy. Not every noble feels that bloodline is enough to overcome the fact that you're completely unproven politically and no one knows you. Those that do side with Eamon because while your family may be older, Alistair's has been the only ones who have ever held the Ferelden throne.

Besides, the nobles don't really end up voting for who should be the next monarch, they vote to remove Loghain from power or not. After that is done and he's either dead or his fate is being decided then the question of who should be the leader (out of the two available choices as if you try to pick yourself they'd pick someone else to judge). No one votes Anora off the throne, they just agree to listen to the supposedly impartial party who just won the duel if not the Landsmeet. 

[Monica21]

Sarah1281 wrote...
But they're not voting for Alistair. They're voting for Eamon's proxy. Not every noble feels that bloodline is enough to overcome the fact that you're completely unproven politically and no one knows you. Those that do side with Eamon because while your family may be older, Alistair's has been the only ones who have ever held the Ferelden throne.

Besides, the nobles don't really end up voting for who should be the next monarch, they vote to remove Loghain from power or not. After that is done and he's either dead or his fate is being decided then the question of who should be the leader (out of the two available choices as if you try to pick yourself they'd pick someone else to judge). No one votes Anora off the throne, they just agree to listen to the supposedly impartial party who just won the duel if not the Landsmeet. 

Eamon has very little sway in the Landsmeet if my PC can back Anora and get all but one to vote for her, but that guy backs Loghain every time. You're right, they back the Warden or Loghain, but they also know it's a fight for the throne. Everything my PC has done, HN or not, is what determines how many votes she gets and who the nobles elect.

Considering all the favors she does, like rescuing Bann Alfstanna's brother and Sighard's son, and considering that the Cousland name is still very much respected, it's highly likely that she could rule alone if she wanted to, and if the option were there. I'm not saying throwing a third name into the ring is a good idea, mind you, I'm simply saying that it would be fairly easy to get the backing of the nobles. I'd even go so far as to say that if the Ferelden is truly modeled after a medieval empire they'd be far more likely to back a respected noble house than a bastard son.

[Sarah1281]

Eamon has so much sway in the Landsmeet that when he says Alistair is the King if Alistair agrees it's official and if not he suggests letting you pick the ruler and everyone goes along with that as well. If you pick Anora then he misjudged the situation and can't very well change his mind on the arbitrator HE chose after the fact but it doesn't mean he has any less power.

[DreGregoire]

DPSSOC wrote...

I just finished up Redcliffe and started the talk of who to put forward for the throne to oppose Loghain and it occurred to me, what`s stopping my Human Noble from stepping up?  When you consider that Alistair doesn't want the position why not put forth the last of a well respected line that pre-dates the kingdom in opposition to what many nobles would see as the whiny brat of an upstart (or the upstart himself).

If I'm understanding the history correctly the ruler of Fereldan was really just a teryn the other teryn's swore fealty to; so with Cailan's line ended (Thierin I think) wouldn't it make sense to go to the only remaining teryn with a hereditary claim to nobility.

Now I can understand why Bioware wouldn't include this option but I'm just thinking from a story perspective it seems odd.

At first I thought that bioware didn't include the option more out of a need to keep the various origins consistent and if that were the case...

There isn't any reason that your human noble couldn't be the king; if in reality you were the last of the Couslands. Are you though? 

How could you think that your right to assume the throne would be valid without knowing if your brother lives?

In game people do recognize your lineage and there is some talk that people wanted your father to be King instead of Cailan.  Alot isn't mentioned in game that I just assume comes about. For instance you do not tell people about Fergus everywhere you go, but I like to assume the conversation would have come up. Eamon would have to be insane to try to put a second child on the throne before knowing if the first is still alive.

Modifié par DreGregoire, 14 août 2010 - 08:53 .

[Monica21]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Eamon has so much sway in the Landsmeet that when he says Alistair is the King if Alistair agrees it's official and if not he suggests letting you pick the ruler and everyone goes along with that as well. If you pick Anora then he misjudged the situation and can't very well change his mind on the arbitrator HE chose after the fact but it doesn't mean he has any less power.

And the fact remains that the PC has the power to override Eamon, whether he misjudged it or not.

[MKDAWUSS]

So basically, if I'm understanding this thread right, is that the younger Cousland is basically a third-party candidate.

[Sarah1281]

Monica21 wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

Eamon has so much sway in the Landsmeet that when he says Alistair is the King if Alistair agrees it's official and if not he suggests letting you pick the ruler and everyone goes along with that as well. If you pick Anora then he misjudged the situation and can't very well change his mind on the arbitrator HE chose after the fact but it doesn't mean he has any less power.

And the fact remains that the PC has the power to override Eamon, whether he misjudged it or not.

How are you overriding him? Eamon says 'Alistair, you're King.' If Alistair agrees, he's King and you aren't even consulted. If Alistair's like 'Oh, I don't know...' then Anora jumps in and insists that she's Queen. Eamon turns to you and designates you the monarch-chooser. He could nominate Leliana the monarch-chooser at this point and if she chose Anora then he'd have to accept that. NOT because either of you had more power than him but because none of the nobles would accept him saying. 'Oh? You're on Anora's side. Fine. Zevran, how about you choose the monarch?'

Eamon used his power to designate the person who was going to choose the King. He chose someone that he believed would be on his side. He chose the King first but if Anora speaks up and he tells her that she's too biased to pick the ruler then he, as the person opposing Anora, is also far too biased. Not that that stops him from picking a proxy. How well do you honestly think it would go over if he tries to take proxy power away from anyone he chose that didn't choose right? That doesn't mean that anyone really thinks you have more power than Eamon. The fact remains that he doesn't even try to override you. He realizes that he made his choices using his greater-than-your powers and has to live with it.

I'll admit, I hate 'My super special awesome Cousland who is in no way a Mary Sue should be allowed to become solo Queen because all those nobles who don't really care about Alistair's last name but who, through political maneuvering on Eamon's part, will let me decide between two established candidates who have quite a bit of political backing either in their own right or through Eamon are really in love with my bloodline and don't actually care that I'm a complete unknown and they don't have to actually listen to me. The fact that they're being mean and making me actually stick with reality and the fact that no one actually seems to think my uber special bloodline is enough to seize the throne all by myself when no one actually wants me to do this and the Landsmeet is free to put whoever they want to on the throne and only turn to me because Anora and Alistair are at an impasse is just game mechanics and not wanting you to have much power. Everyone knows that I should be able to ride on my murdered father's coattails to a position I'm in no way qualified for and haven't at all proven myself for!' arguments. To me, they really come off as ignoring reality and politics and seem very full of delusional grandeur.

Modifié par Sarah1281, 14 août 2010 - 03:43 .

[TJPags]

No, I completely agree with the OP.

The Couslands sure are a candidate for the throne - isn't it said somewhere that a lot of people(nobles) wanted Bryce rather than Caillan (or maybe it was Maric?) as king?

A lot of the nobles don't know Alistair is Maric's bastard, so they have only Eamon's support to use to decide for him.  Loghain is indeed an upjumped commoner, and I have no doubt that would (or should) bother some nobles about voting for Anora.

The Couslands are a noble, respected, ancient family.  In fact, when, as a HNM, you suggest the marriage to Anora, she jumps on it - because it would help legimize her claim.  How would it do that if you yourself couldn't have had some shot at it?

So yes, there should have been some avenue to put the PC Cousland Warden forward as a candidate, likely wasn't simply as a game mechanic to even out the origins.

[Sarah1281]

TJPags wrote...

No, I completely agree with the OP.

The Couslands sure are a candidate for the throne - isn't it said somewhere that a lot of people(nobles) wanted Bryce rather than Caillan (or maybe it was Maric?) as king?

A lot of the nobles don't know Alistair is Maric's bastard, so they have only Eamon's support to use to decide for him.  Loghain is indeed an upjumped commoner, and I have no doubt that would (or should) bother some nobles about voting for Anora.

The Couslands are a noble, respected, ancient family.  In fact, when, as a HNM, you suggest the marriage to Anora, she jumps on it - because it would help legimize her claim.  How would it do that if you yourself couldn't have had some shot at it?

So yes, there should have been some avenue to put the PC Cousland Warden forward as a candidate, likely wasn't simply as a game mechanic to even out the origins.

People wanted Bryce because he was the popular and well-established Teyrn. You haven't reclaimed Highever, no one knows you, and for all anyone knows you'd be utterly incompetent. Just because one proven competent noble is considered for the throne doesn't mean that his kid is automatically up to snuff.

The nobles that dislike Anora because her father wasn't born a noble would be voting for Alistair. He's the pro-bloodline vote. They're not voting for him on the strength of his own claim but because Eamon, himself greatly concerned with bloodline, is throwing his considerable weight behind him. Not everyone gives a damn about bloodline and no one appears to worship the Couslands. Those that do care care about the Theirins.

You have to have high persuasion to convince Anora to marry you. You're still a Cousland with your oh-so-special bloodline that no one else actually appears to give a damn about but she's just not convinced. Plus it's rather ridiculous to insist that just because someone passed the 'oh, nice bloodline' test to be a consort (whose primary duty, btw, is having an heir and so a nice bloodline is a good draw) they would be at all suitable to be a ruler.

The rulers of Ferelden, who are chosen by the Landsmeet, won't be picked if they come off as that much of an idiot while a consort can be Bella-levels of stupid if her pedigree is attractive enough as all she really needs to do is have kids.

Modifié par Sarah1281, 14 août 2010 - 04:29 .

[Yankee23]

@Sarah is it hardened Alistair that duels Loghain that takes the throne without your intervention, never did that combo?



I agree that the HN has a legitimate claim to the throne and could be a third option but I don't think they could just waltz into the Landsmeet and declare themselves king/queen. I think they would have had to gather their own support prior. I don't think a surprise nomination for yourself is going to get you anywhere. This is not something the nobles would decide on a whim. They already know what they need to about Eamon and Anora to decide, but not you. However, if you had laid the ground work it think it could work. Alas, it is not an option so...

[Sarah1281]

Yankee23 wrote...

@Sarah is it hardened Alistair that duels Loghain that takes the throne without your intervention, never did that combo?

I agree that the HN has a legitimate claim to the throne and could be a third option but I don't think they could just waltz into the Landsmeet and declare themselves king/queen. I think they would have had to gather their own support prior. I don't think a surprise nomination for yourself is going to get you anywhere. This is not something the nobles would decide on a whim. They already know what they need to about Eamon and Anora to decide, but not you. However, if you had laid the ground work it think it could work. Alas, it is not an option so...

Yes, it is a hardened Alistair who duels Loghain. He also has to not be told he's marrying Anora and there might be a 'no HNF romance' condition as well but I've never had Alistair kill Loghain as a HNF so I can't say for sure.

Edit: And I think that if you bothered to build up a base of support then yes, you could become King or Queen. But at the Landsmeet you don't have it and so no one wants to hear how your special bloodline means you should get to pwn everyoen and be the monarch.

Modifié par Sarah1281, 14 août 2010 - 04:34 .

[TJPags]

Sarah1281 wrote...

TJPags wrote...

No, I completely agree with the OP.

The Couslands sure are a candidate for the throne - isn't it said somewhere that a lot of people(nobles) wanted Bryce rather than Caillan (or maybe it was Maric?) as king?

A lot of the nobles don't know Alistair is Maric's bastard, so they have only Eamon's support to use to decide for him.  Loghain is indeed an upjumped commoner, and I have no doubt that would (or should) bother some nobles about voting for Anora.

The Couslands are a noble, respected, ancient family.  In fact, when, as a HNM, you suggest the marriage to Anora, she jumps on it - because it would help legimize her claim.  How would it do that if you yourself couldn't have had some shot at it?

So yes, there should have been some avenue to put the PC Cousland Warden forward as a candidate, likely wasn't simply as a game mechanic to even out the origins.

People wanted Bryce because he was the popular and well-established Teyrn. You haven't reclaimed Highever, no one knows you, and for all anyone knows you'd be utterly incompetent. Just because one proven competent noble is considered for the throne doesn't mean that his kid is automatically up to snuff.

The nobles that dislike Anora because her father wasn't born a noble would be voting for Alistair. He's the pro-bloodline vote. They're not voting for him on the strength of his own claim but because Eamon, himself greatly concerned with bloodline, is throwing his considerable weight behind him. Not everyone gives a damn about bloodline and no one appears to worship the Couslands. Those that do care care about the Theirins.

You have to have high persuasion to convince Anora to marry you. You're still a Cousland with your oh-so-special bloodline that no one else actually appears to give a damn about but she's just not convinced. Plus it's rather ridiculous to insist that just because someone passed the 'oh, nice bloodline' test to be a consort (whose primary duty, btw, is having an heir and so a nice bloodline is a good draw) they would be at all suitable to be a ruler.

The rulers of Ferelden, who are chosen by the Landsmeet, won't be picked if they come off as that much of an idiot while a consort can be Bella-levels of stupid if her pedigree is attractive enough as all she really needs to do is have kids.

Um, nobody knows who Alistair is, either.  He's not exactly strong ruler material - note how he lets you be in charge all game.  He doesn't want the job if he's not hardened.  And yet, you can still make him king and everyone is fine with it.

I doubt very much the nobles don't know who I am.  The king knows me - Loghain knows me.  They likely all know me, or at least know who I am.  Why do you think they'd assume I was unqualified?  What in the game tells you this?  They respect my dad, some of them wanted him to be king, it's reasonable for at least some of them to assume my dad would have taught me to be a good ruler, unless they have some info to the contrary.

Unlike Alistair, who was raised in a Chantry, I was raised in my father's court - loigical to assume I would have learned SOMETHING about being a ruler.  And with dad dead, Fergus missing, I am the heir to Highever, after all.

Anora is competant and known, but without the bloodline.  Alistair is unknown and is lacking any indication of being competant - who could assume someone raised in a Chantry knows anything about ruling a country?  And some might not be so easy about him being Eamon's puppet.

The Cousland warden is known, has the bloodline, likely has the training - what exactly disqualifies him as a candidate?

[MKDAWUSS]

Sarah1281 wrote...
People wanted Bryce because he was the popular and well-established Teyrn. You haven't reclaimed Highever, no one knows you, and for all anyone knows you'd be utterly incompetent. Just because one proven competent noble is considered for the throne doesn't mean that his kid is automatically up to snuff.
 

True. People who see you don't quite recognize you right away (Loghain, Teagan), or they recognize you but barely know you. And at the same time, the Cousland Warden apparently didn't get around either, as Cailan's marriage was news to him 5 years after it happened, and he didn't know who Teyrn Loghain was.

Basically, to the nobility, you're still Bryce's little boy.

Interestingly enough, they still seem to recognize your political titles, even though you lost all that when Howe took over.

[FiliusMartis]

A Cousland warden would first have to wage a campaign to reclaim Highever and its titles; at the time of the Landsmeet, a Cousland is the last member of a noble yet deposed family. Furthermore, the Landsmeet doesn't seem ready to let anyone declare himself king. Eamon attempts to declare Alistair, and if he refuses then Anora attempts to declare herself. However, Eamon cuts her off saying she's too bias and hands the decision over to you. Should the warden do the same thing,Eamon would likely hand the choice off to someone else.

[adneate]

I think the problem largely lies in opening up the Throne to lesser nobles, if you are allowing the second child of a Teryn to be king then where does that stop? The Howe family is very old as well why can't they make an attempt to gain the Throne, or any old Noble family with a private army for that matter? Opening the field of potential candidates would almost assuredly lead to a War of Succession over the Crown. It's not so much that a Cousland couldn't be King it's that a Cousland couldn't be King by themselves easily, someone would disagree and refuse to follow a boy King from some other Noble house regardless of how respected and old said house is. In a medieval context disagreements over who should rule always lead to war, which Ferelden cannot afford since it's being destroyed by the blight.

[MKDAWUSS]

FiliusMartis wrote...

A Cousland warden would first have to wage a campaign to reclaim Highever and its titles; at the time of the Landsmeet, a Cousland is the last member of a noble yet deposed family. Furthermore, the Landsmeet doesn't seem ready to let anyone declare himself king. Eamon attempts to declare Alistair, and if he refuses then Anora attempts to declare herself. However, Eamon cuts her off saying she's too bias and hands the decision over to you. Should the warden do the same thing,Eamon would likely hand the choice off to someone else.

If you spare Loghain, each candidate nominates themselves and somehow it all falls to you. I don't think Eamon has one line after the words "I accept your surrender" until you decide to choose Alistair.

[FiliusMartis]

It varies, but Eamon often says 'So it is decided. Alistair will be king' to which Alistair responds 'Wait what? That's not decided. Nobody's decided that, have they?' Anora responds 'See? He abdicates in favor of me.'

These quotes are probably not exact, but they are close... you get the idea, and I have seen this exchange in every playthrough I've done. Again, ymmv.

EDIT: I youtubed it. The exchange I'm referring to can be seen starting around 2:00 in this video:  

Modifié par FiliusMartis, 14 août 2010 - 04:57 .

[TJPags]

adneate wrote...

I think the problem largely lies in opening up the Throne to lesser nobles, if you are allowing the second child of a Teryn to be king then where does that stop? The Howe family is very old as well why can't they make an attempt to gain the Throne, or any old Noble family with a private army for that matter? Opening the field of potential candidates would almost assuredly lead to a War of Succession over the Crown. It's not so much that a Cousland couldn't be King it's that a Cousland couldn't be King by themselves easily, someone would disagree and refuse to follow a boy King from some other Noble house regardless of how respected and old said house is. In a medieval context disagreements over who should rule always lead to war, which Ferelden cannot afford since it's being destroyed by the blight.

I agree for the most part.  But, the Cousland Warden, while a second son, is the last surviving - so far as we know then - Cousland.  If Fergus were dead, he or she would certainly inherit Highever.  So the second son argument doesn't work for me.

And while not all would agree, I'm just saying - it's a legitimate idea, which the game (unfortunately but understandably) doesn't allow you to float out there seriously.

[tuppence95]

It's been awhile since I played the beginning of the human noble origin, but I remember reading that the Cousland family power and influence is second only to the king.  And when Maric died, many people felt that Bryce should have been crowned king instead of Cailan.  And for some unspecified reason, it was rumored that Bryce saw his second child as the person more qualified to inherit the teynir.  So no, I don't think it's a totally farfetched idea that the Cousland warden might be considered for the throne.

But I think it's unlikely to happen.  Eamon has a huge amount of power over the landsmeet, and he is fixated on the Theirin bloodline.