22 réponses à ce sujet

[ugabug]

Hello all! I am about to start a city elf rogue game and am not to experience with rogues and am wondering what is some good tips on them? Should i go with duel weapons or a archer and what specializations should i get and should i just focus on dexterity and cunning or should i also put some point in strength?

[Spartas Husky]

If Is a rogue, I dont go archer... hell I never go archer too slow.



Dex Cuning, Willpower.



Dual.



If you gona play anything bgiger than normal... then nvm

[ugabug]

Thanks for the advice.

[swk3000]

I prefer a Dual-Wielding Rogue. Archery is too slow.



If you do decide to go with a Dual-Wielding Rogue, there are three ways you can go:



Dagger/Dagger - Has the fastest attack speed, but the lowest damage per hit. However, this setup is much more flexible in terms of which stat to focus on.



Main-Hand/Dagger - Slower than the Dagger/Dagger, but faster than the Main-Hand/Main-Hand. Main-Hand weapon does more damage per hit, so damage goes up compared to Dagger/Dagger. However, because you are using a Main-Hand weapon and a Dagger, point allocation can become somewhat dicey.



Main-Hand/Main-Hand - The slowest speed, but the best damage per hit. Point allocation is rather dicey, though.



Once you have your weapons picked out, you need stats. Pumping Dexterity to about 24 or 26 first will give you enough for a decent number of Talents, including the incredibly useful Dual-Weapon Sweep and Momentum. From there, you can start pumping your Attribute of choice. If you're using Main-Hand weapons, you'll need to put points into Strength, but if you want to pick locks, you'll need at least 30 Cunning, as well. That's the tough part: deciding which stat is more important.



If you go with a Dagger/Dagger setup, however, you're more flexible. Daggers get damage from Strength and Dexterity, and as a Rogue, you can use Cunning instead of Strength. This means that most Rogues are either Dexterity-based, or Cunning-based.



Dexterity Rogues don't hit as hard, as several damage-increasing abilities (Exploit Weakness, Song of Courage, The Tainted Blade) use Cunning to determine their damage. However, they themselves are harder to hit thanks to a higher Defense, so what they lack in damage output, they make up for in survivability. However, as they are pumping Dexterity, they will need to put points into the Deft Hands tree to make up for not having the Cunning to open chests.



Cunning Rogues do better damage; a Cunning score of 50 gives +7 Attack, +7 Melee Crit Chance, and +23 damage while using Song of Courage, Exploit Weakness, and The Tainted Blade. However, Cunning Rogues are easier to hit, so they tend to be more frail. To offset this, you can take the points that you don't need in the Deft Hands tree and put them into Stealth; once you get Combat and Master stealth, you'll be able to Stealth in the middle of combat, which makes enemies lose interest in you. Another thing to note is that all Rogues can pick locks. This ability is based off the Cunning attribute, so a Cunning Rogue needs fewer points in the Deft Hands tree to unlock chests. If you have Golems of Amgarrak, and get the 'Secret Stitched Together' achievement, then you can actually get away with putting no points into the Deft Hands tree, as the Origins version of that gives +2 levels to your Cunning attribute.



Personally, I prefer the extra damage of the Cunning build, but that's me.

[ugabug]

swk3000 wrote...

I prefer a Dual-Wielding Rogue. Archery is too slow.

If you do decide to go with a Dual-Wielding Rogue, there are three ways you can go:

Dagger/Dagger - Has the fastest attack speed, but the lowest damage per hit. However, this setup is much more flexible in terms of which stat to focus on.

Main-Hand/Dagger - Slower than the Dagger/Dagger, but faster than the Main-Hand/Main-Hand. Main-Hand weapon does more damage per hit, so damage goes up compared to Dagger/Dagger. However, because you are using a Main-Hand weapon and a Dagger, point allocation can become somewhat dicey.

Main-Hand/Main-Hand - The slowest speed, but the best damage per hit. Point allocation is rather dicey, though.

Once you have your weapons picked out, you need stats. Pumping Dexterity to about 24 or 26 first will give you enough for a decent number of Talents, including the incredibly useful Dual-Weapon Sweep and Momentum. From there, you can start pumping your Attribute of choice. If you're using Main-Hand weapons, you'll need to put points into Strength, but if you want to pick locks, you'll need at least 30 Cunning, as well. That's the tough part: deciding which stat is more important.

If you go with a Dagger/Dagger setup, however, you're more flexible. Daggers get damage from Strength and Dexterity, and as a Rogue, you can use Cunning instead of Strength. This means that most Rogues are either Dexterity-based, or Cunning-based.

Dexterity Rogues don't hit as hard, as several damage-increasing abilities (Exploit Weakness, Song of Courage, The Tainted Blade) use Cunning to determine their damage. However, they themselves are harder to hit thanks to a higher Defense, so what they lack in damage output, they make up for in survivability. However, as they are pumping Dexterity, they will need to put points into the Deft Hands tree to make up for not having the Cunning to open chests.

Cunning Rogues do better damage; a Cunning score of 50 gives +7 Attack, +7 Melee Crit Chance, and +23 damage while using Song of Courage, Exploit Weakness, and The Tainted Blade. However, Cunning Rogues are easier to hit, so they tend to be more frail. To offset this, you can take the points that you don't need in the Deft Hands tree and put them into Stealth; once you get Combat and Master stealth, you'll be able to Stealth in the middle of combat, which makes enemies lose interest in you. Another thing to note is that all Rogues can pick locks. This ability is based off the Cunning attribute, so a Cunning Rogue needs fewer points in the Deft Hands tree to unlock chests. If you have Golems of Amgarrak, and get the 'Secret Stitched Together' achievement, then you can actually get away with putting no points into the Deft Hands tree, as the Origins version of that gives +2 levels to your Cunning attribute.

Personally, I prefer the extra damage of the Cunning build, but that's me.

Nice post. And doesn't some of the Cunning skills also give bonuses to allies?  If so that seems like the one to go with.

[swk3000]

Only Song of Courage benefits Allies. Everything else is only for the Rogue.

[Elhanan]

I still like the STR Rogue. The options to wear heavier armors, carry shields, weild heavier weapons, etc appeal to me even if they are not chosen. Bearing the Fade Shield helped recently against the Harvester with my archer when having to cross paths with its minions.

[battleship potemkin village]

Another option is to only put enough points in STR to equip the armor you want. Eventually the DW rogue gets a talent that replaces STR with CUN to compute damage so those points are better put to use in the attribute that helps you pick locks.



Two-thirds of my points goes to DEX. This ensures that my rogue never gets hit by physical attacks (this makes armor fairly pointless -- except for the buffs). The balance of my points goes mostly to CUN, but I put a few points in WIS & CON when I feel they're needed.



I tend to use two daggers for the speed bonus. My rogue relies on criticals (+ to Defense & + to criticals are my two most common item buffs) to do damage.



As for magic, I carry a lot of salves with me.

[chefbobby203]

The items that boost your crit damage are great for rogues, since you will be getting auto backstabs on stunned targets(coup de grace) and flanked enemies. Red Jenny Seekers, Rose's Thorn(this weapon rocks if you can afford it), and crow daggers can give you a nice boost. My full cun rogue was hitting about as hard with a backstab as a 2handed warrior hits with criticals by the end of the game(and much much much faster). Keep in mind if you decide to use full sized weapons that Veshaile and biteback axe also grant you bonus damage to your criticals

[RobRam10]

the "end game" gear that you should have

Helm of Honnleath (boosts attributes +2, you need The Stone Prisoner DLC)

Felon's Coat (gives +9 dex, +9 defense, 1/+2 stam regen and +15 physical resistance.)

Red Jenny Seekers(+15 crit/backstab damage)

Cadash Stompers(+2 Dex,+2% Ranged Critical Chance+2%, Melee Critical Chance, you need The Stone Prisoner DLC.)

Key to the city(boosts attributes +2)

Harvest Festival Ring( +2 strength, +2 dex, +4 attack)

Andruil's blessing(+2 attributes, 20% nature resistance, 1/+2 stam regen, +10 physical resistance)

Spellward(+5 willpower, +8 exploration health regeneration, 30% spell resistance, 10% chance to dodge attacks, +6 defense against missile attacks)

as for weapons

The Rose's Thorn( +2 dex, +1/+2 combat health regen, +3 damage, +5 melee crit chance, +30% crit/backstab damage)

Thorn of the Dead Gods( well stats boosts depending which lvl you are but the tier 6 version gives you +3 damage and +3 armor pen)

[RobRam10]

also forgot Lifegiver <.< (+10 constitution 3/+6 combat health regen, +10 Exploration Health Regeneration, +20% Healing Effects Received, you can replace the Harvest Festival Ring with this ring)

[swk3000]

If you have it, The Edge can replace the Silverite Thorn of the Dead Gods.

[ugabug]

Thanks Rob I'll look for the ones that i can get. (don't have any of the DLCs just Awakening) And one last question i am about to be able get my first Specialization and so what should i get? I am thinking either Bard or Ranger.

[RobRam10]

Bard and Assassin should be the specs for DW rogues as for which to pick first that's your choice Bard the first thing you get is Song of Valor which give more stam and man regen to all party members.
If you go for assassin you get Mark of death which increase the damage done to the marked target.

Modifié par RobRam10, 15 août 2010 - 08:38 .

[Mouse That Roared]

Since he is playing a city elf he has the option of obtaining Fang. According to the old DPS calculations by Discobird, Fang will provide him a slightly better DPS boost (1-2 points) than either Thorn of the Dead Gods or The Edge. The Edge has slightly better DPS than The Thorn of the Dead Gods against low armor enemies (less than 21 armor, 1-2 points). And, Dead Thaig Shanker has less DPS than Thorn of the Dead Gods (2 points) but a cool effect of interrupting spellcasting (not sure how well that works, haven't tried it and the cunning has other benefits and you don't have to constantly swap it in and out if you want to take advantage of that).

If he's playing a city elf, I'd use Fang (assuming he gets it level 19+) since he's the only origin that can take advantage of it (and assuming it isn't bugged like some people say it is for them, it wasn't for me).

I personally prefer a dex build though and duelist/assassin (and later shadow, if he was a dwarf for lore/power reasons I'd maybe go assassin/shadow/legionnaire scout - I haven't played around with the legionnaire scout simply because I didn't want to make my elf join what strikes me as a dwarven specialization, even if it is available).  Your mileage may vary.

Modifié par Mouse That Roared, 16 août 2010 - 05:00 .

[swk3000]

The biggest problem with Fang is that you literally cannot get it until just before the end-game sequence. I never consider it, even as a City Elf, because there's no way to get it any sooner. With the other stuff, you can get it a lot sooner, and get a lot more use out of it.

[swk3000]

ugabug wrote...

Thanks Rob I'll look for the ones that i can get. (don't have any of the DLCs just Awakening) And one last question i am about to be able get my first Specialization and so what should i get? I am thinking either Bard or Ranger.

Then use the Quicksilver Arming Cap (bought from Legnar in the Orzammar Commons), and the Silverhammer's Tackmasters (bought from Bodhan), and you'll be set.

As for replacing the Harvest Festival ring, you can go with the Lifegiver or the Ring of the Warrior. If you run a Cunning Rogue, then you can also use the Dusk Ring, as well.

[DWSmiley]

Elhanan wrote...

I still like the STR Rogue. The options to wear heavier armors, carry shields, weild heavier weapons, etc appeal to me even if they are not chosen. Bearing the Fade Shield helped recently against the Harvester with my archer when having to cross paths with its minions.

It's an effective build but my opinion of rogues in heavy armor matches Leliana's opinion of Ferelden shoes. 

Modifié par DWSmiley, 16 août 2010 - 01:29 .

[DaneWolf]

The first good tip about rogue I can give... Get behind your target... Rogues do it from behind!!! They automaticly backstab... Make sure one of your party members kan hold the targets attention long enough for the rogue to get his DPS done...



It's the best tip I can get u... Oh yeah and don't go Archer!

[Elhanan]

DWSmiley wrote...

Elhanan wrote...

I still like the STR Rogue. The options to wear heavier armors, carry shields, weild heavier weapons, etc appeal to me even if they are not chosen. Bearing the Fade Shield helped recently against the Harvester with my archer when having to cross paths with its minions.

It's an effective build but my opinion of rogues in heavy armor matches Leliana's opinion of Ferelden shoes. 

Then I will tell you something akin to what I tell her: I just don't get it....

[Last Darkness]

If you have the Toolset theres directions on the wiki how to place fang as stealable loot or even in a shop inventory.

Fangs too good of a dagger to pass up.

[Mouse That Roared]

swk3000 wrote...

The biggest problem with Fang is that you literally cannot get it until just before the end-game sequence. I never consider it, even as a City Elf, because there's no way to get it any sooner. With the other stuff, you can get it a lot sooner, and get a lot more use out of it.

That's true, he'll ideally wait until level 19 to get it.  Still, once you do get it you might as well use it (and, he doesn't have The Edge apparently which is a great dagger because of its early availability).  I also prefer to save Orz until last too so the Thorn of the Dead Gods and Dead Thaig Shanker aren't gathered until late in my career as well.  He's got Awakenings so he could use these for a while into that game as well.  

But, really, 1-2 points of DPS isn't that big of a deal, they're all good.  

[swk3000]

Mouse That Roared wrote...

swk3000 wrote...

The biggest problem with Fang is that you literally cannot get it until just before the end-game sequence. I never consider it, even as a City Elf, because there's no way to get it any sooner. With the other stuff, you can get it a lot sooner, and get a lot more use out of it.

That's true, he'll ideally wait until level 19 to get it.  Still, once you do get it you might as well use it (and, he doesn't have The Edge apparently which is a great dagger because of its early availability).  I also prefer to save Orz until last too so the Thorn of the Dead Gods and Dead Thaig Shanker aren't gathered until late in my career as well.  He's got Awakenings so he could use these for a while into that game as well.  

But, really, 1-2 points of DPS isn't that big of a deal, they're all good.  

I generally do 'A Paragon of her Kind' last, as well, but Orzammar itself is almost always one of my first stops. You can enter the city without having to take the quest-line to completion, so you can get The Rose's Thorn whenever you have the money.