224 réponses à ce sujet

[Sir JK]

jln.francisco wrote...
I agree with using someone elses blood but as far as using your own blood we see Jowan do this without much difficulty. He takes down a room full of people (mages and Templars) and still has the presence of mind to escape and avoid capture. Sure if you kept using it but there are magical means to replensih blood and heal wounds so unless you go WAY over board you should be fine.

We only see Jowan briefly as eh activates the magic though, we don't see how he'd fare in a prolonged fight or even if this sole spell affects him. All we can tell is that he have the presence of mind to run before anyone recovers. If I may speculate a little, it's not too unfeasible Loghain's agents capture him before he has recovered from the spell in question.

Furthermore, being able to replenish blood and "going overboard" implies you can know before-hand just how much the spell you cast will drain. But given that tolerance to blood-loss is individual, that there is no interface at all for magic and that it's not clear how much energy a particular spell needs I think it's not difficult to cast your spell and find that your volounteer died.

But we already know they have a method of storing blood over a long period of time. The phylacteries the Templars use to track mages are just that, glorified blood packs.

I always thought that was more akin to classic sympathethic magic, like folk lore curses where one needs a personal object from someone to curse that someone or like one needs a strand of hair for a voodo-doll. Essentially that the mage's blood is fused with the object and it forms a symbolic link with you which the Templars can use to track you. Thus that's it's not actually stored blood, but a magic object formed out of your blood.
I might have gotten the wrong idea though?

[thegreateski]

Sir JK wrote...

But we already know they have a method of storing blood over a long period of time. The phylacteries the Templars use to track mages are just that, glorified blood packs.

I always thought that was more akin to classic sympathethic magic, like folk lore curses where one needs a personal object from someone to curse that someone or like one needs a strand of hair for a voodo-doll. Essentially that the mage's blood is fused with the object and it forms a symbolic link with you which the Templars can use to track you. Thus that's it's not actually stored blood, but a magic object formed out of your blood.
I might have gotten the wrong idea though?

It is actual blood. The Templars use blood magic to hunt down apostates.

[captain.subtle]

Jowan did not escape due to his great magical capacity.. he escaped suing magi called as the Plot-spell.

[Daerog]

Blood magic is just a thing. The temptation for such easy power (control of others, using the blood of others, other bad things...) is the evil. Blood magic can be worse than nuclear weapons, as nuclear weapons are pretty honest in their destruction while blood magic can just mind control people and can affect things outside the world (magisters entering the Fade using a lot of blood).

One can say that using blood magic to save someone makes it good. Well, that makes your action good, but not the blood magic.

Overall, if I had to say blood magic was good or evil, I would lean more towards evil, as all the good you can do with it can be done by other means. Anything that blood magic can uniquely do tends to be immoral (extending life can be debated, however).

[captain.subtle]

jln.francisco wrote...

captain.subtle wrote...

Jowan did not escape due to his great magical capacity.. he escaped suing magi called as the Plot-spell.

You can't use that as an excuse for everything in the game. Some things like the Landsmeet decision sure but as far as character abilities, motivations ect you have to go with what the game gives you.

hmm... How do you explain the PC surviving and Daveth dying? Another conspiracy theory?

[filetemo]

jln.francisco wrote...


what?

is this always how you answer when you get cornered?
you did the same in the other thread saying "where the **** did that come from"?
answer capt.subtles question please

[filetemo]

what questions do not make sense to you? the ones you can't answer because the other guy is right on his assumptions?

[Daerog]

jln.francisco wrote...

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...
Overall, if I had to say blood magic was good or evil, I would lean more towards evil, as all the good you can do with it can be done by other means. Anything that blood magic can uniquely do tends to be immoral (extending life can be debated, however).

It preserved Eamon's life in a truly almost lore breaking moment. According to Nial spend to much time in the Fade and your body deteriorates. I suppose it comes down to how much of you is being consumed by the fade, spirits or demons but that the Desire Demon could keep him alive, sane (once he wakes up at least) and healthy for so long speaks volumes about blood magic's potential. Of course how it/she/he did this could very well put those ends well out of the moral gray and into most certainly evil.

Are you saying the Desire Demon was using blood magic to keep Eamon in a comatose state? Where did you get that idea from? What blood magic? Demons possess people and have a unique nature, but that doesn't mean "oh, they use blood magic." She can teach blood magic; doesn't mean she was using it.

However, I get what you are saying, and I would say imprisoning Eamon (possibly forever) is no way good but entirely evil. Avernis is the only example of blood magics potential to prolong life, I see any bid for immortality to be evil, but just prolonging your life some more years can be debated.

[tmp7704]

jln.francisco wrote...

I wish they explored just how the sacrifices must be made, whether it matters if the blood was taken several months ago and is kept in storage and what not.

Would guess it has to be taken from a still alive being, seeing how it'd call for death of Isolde instead of just using blood from still fresh corpses littering the castle floors.

On the other hand you have the possibility of tracking down the mage using sample of their blood taken potentially years ago. Perhaps again what matters is whether the person it was taken from still lives or not.

[Everwarden]

captain.subtle wrote...

Lyrium if directly brought into contact with Mages acoording to the lore (as opposed to gameplay) Kills them instantly.

...Wait, what? No. Lyrium potions?

[Daerog]

tmp7704 wrote...

jln.francisco wrote...

I wish they explored just how the sacrifices must be made, whether it matters if the blood was taken several months ago and is kept in storage and what not.

Would guess it has to be taken from a still alive being, seeing how it'd call for death of Isolde instead of just using blood from still fresh corpses littering the castle floors.

On the other hand you have the possibility of tracking down the mage using sample of their blood taken potentially years ago. Perhaps again what matters is whether the person it was taken from still lives or not.

THE BLOOD IS THE LIFE!
Ya, I think the magic comes more from a kind of "life force" connected to the blood rather than just blood itself.

tmp7704 makes a good point, as there were plenty of corpses (untainted by blight) scattered throughout Redcliffe, but the option Jowan gave was a living person.

[Daerog]

Everwarden wrote...

captain.subtle wrote...

Lyrium if directly brought into contact with Mages acoording to the lore (as opposed to gameplay) Kills them instantly.

...Wait, what? No. Lyrium potions?

Lyrium potions are not pure lyrium, but processed lyrium. I'm not so sure it kills them, may make their connection to the Fade go a bit crazy, make them go crazy, or it could overload and kill them. I'll double check on the wikia.

Edit: From the wikia, raw lyrium is very dangerous, but not processed lyrium:


"Lyrium is a valuable but dangerous mineral. In its raw form, the ore will cause anything from serious injury to insanity in humans or elves, and it will kill mages. Only the dwarves know how to process the ore to render it less dangerous and more usable. Generations of proximity have made dwarves more naturally resistant (not immune) to the effects. Surface dwarves lose that resistance over time. In its processed form, it may be handled by anyone, but long term exposure or a single mistake while working with it can lead to serious side effects such as emotional instability or complete psychosis.
Processed lyrium is used by dwarves and the tranquil to enchant items. The Circle of Magi also uses it to mentally travel to the Fade in an aware state. "

Modifié par DaerogTheDhampir, 14 août 2010 - 11:30 .

[captain.subtle]

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...

jln.francisco wrote...

I wish they explored just how the sacrifices must be made, whether it matters if the blood was taken several months ago and is kept in storage and what not.

Would guess it has to be taken from a still alive being, seeing how it'd call for death of Isolde instead of just using blood from still fresh corpses littering the castle floors.

On the other hand you have the possibility of tracking down the mage using sample of their blood taken potentially years ago. Perhaps again what matters is whether the person it was taken from still lives or not.

THE BLOOD IS THE LIFE!
Ya, I think the magic comes more from a kind of "life force" connected to the blood rather than just blood itself.

tmp7704 makes a good point, as there were plenty of corpses (untainted by blight) scattered throughout Redcliffe, but the option Jowan gave was a living person.

Precisement!

Its not the blood really, its the fleeting life and perhaps even the soul that powers....

[Everwarden]

I checked the codex entry and the wiki, the poster was partly right... unprocessed lyrium ore will kill a mage if she/he makes contact with it.

[captain.subtle]

Everwarden wrote...

I checked the codex entry and the wiki, the poster was partly right... unprocessed lyrium ore will kill a mage if she/he makes contact with it.

err.. why was I partly right?

I was Right!

[Solstice-x]

Everwarden wrote...

I checked the codex entry and the wiki, the poster was partly right... unprocessed lyrium ore will kill a mage if she/he makes contact with it.

Wont it also make people go insane? Even that one dwarf in Orzammar (sp?) had issues after getting a bit of it into a cut. 

[Daerog]

jln.francisco wrote...

Are you saying the Desire Demon was using blood magic to keep Eamon in a comatose state? Where did you get that idea from? What blood magic? Demons possess people and have a unique nature, but that doesn't mean "oh, they use blood magic." She can teach blood magic; doesn't mean she was using it.

It would have to be blood magic they're working with. The affects of blood magic are exactly the affects of demon possession. Warping the body, enslaving the mind, creating dream worlds for you, ect. That's listed under the powers of blood magic in it's codex, I believe.

So, they share similarities, doesn't mean blood magic. It is the demon unique nature that allows them to do such things. Demons possess because they don't have any real bodies and can leap into unprotected vessels. Dream worlds are not blood magic, the Fade isn't a creation of blood magic.
A dragon can breathe fire, doesn't make it an elemental mage, it is just its nature. The demon can use magic, as what we consider magic and the abilities used against us in the Fade, but it was never said that the demon itself used blood magic or even showed blood magic on the demon's part.