224 réponses à ce sujet

[Face of Evil]

Sir JK wrote...

I think the primary problem with blood magic is that it lends itself very well to abuse. Partly because of the immense power the method allows, partly because of the fact that one can use the blood or even lives of others to fuel the magic and partly because it allows spells like mind control and similar.

In theory it's just a normal tool that can be used both for good (allthough as far as I can see, it's good uses are fairly limited and just indirect ones) and for bad. It's just that it's so easy to start doing bad with it (remember, the path to hell is paved with good intentions) and so much more difficult to stop a blood mage than a regular mage (which in itself is a very difficult task). The costs of blood magic vastly outweigh the benfits (with the odd exception).

jln.francisco wrote...

yes he did. he said it comes from demons and the fade which is why it's useless against them.

Yes, the knowledge to work blood magic now comes from demons. Which is why Avernus researched weaponizing the darkspawn taint; while the demons could counter his blood magic, they knew nothing about darkspawn.
Another problem is that often the excess power provided by blood magic is simply not neccesary, meaning that there's no real legitimate reason to turn to it in the first place.

Not to mention that I find the thought of mind control really scary... Imagine being a prisoner in your own body, just being able to look out of your eyes as your arms and legs moves as if run by a puppeteer. Not having control of anything you do but being forced to witness and experience it.

So overall I'd say that turning to blood magic is more often than not a bad thing. There might be the odd situation where you have to turn to it, but those are rare and far inbetween.

Well said. That's pretty my argument as well.

I would also note that, by its very nature, blood magic seems to weaken the Veil, allowing demons to flood into the mortal world. That's what I'm drawing from the Warden's Keep DLC, when the demon tells Avernus that "so much violence, death … and oh yes, BLOOD ... have weakened the Veil." Granted, Avernus was working some funky summoning spells at the Keep, but the demon seems to imply the use of blood magic has allowed the situation to get worse.

Modifié par Face of Evil, 15 août 2010 - 12:12 .

[captain.subtle]

There is MUCH more evidence that Blood shed weakens the veil.. but not blood magic per se.... But since one things leads to the other....

[Daerog]

jln.francisco wrote...

For example, you could control someone's mind for the right reasons and achieve a good end, but is it ever really okay to take away free will?

Yes. On the battlefield with a kamikaze fighter or compelling a hostage taker to let his victims go free.

Besides, we already take the will of others away if they have proven themselves to be a threat to society others or committed some crime deemed great enough for prison time.

Ends do not justify the means. The product can be deemed good/nice, but the means doing it was certainly evil. Putting people in prison is not taking away their free will, their mind remains their own.

Example: America (or some other country, use America cause I'm from it) destroys all other nations on the planet and kills everyone but americans. Hey, less competition and higher standard of living for all! Good? Hell no.
A single person mind controls the entire world. No more war! Hurray! It's still an evil no matter what the end is.

At best you can call blood magic a "necessary evil," if one can call evil necessary.

[captain.subtle]

jln.francisco wrote...

captain.subtle wrote...

jln.francisco wrote...

captain.subtle wrote...

jln.francisco wrote...

Dream worlds are not blood magic, the Fade isn't a creation of blood magic.

Actually spirit magic is powered by the Fade and said to come directly from it (going off the codex for it.) the same applies to blood magic.

Any source for that?

Avernus.

Avernus NEVER said that Blood magic is sourced from the Fade.... Are you bull****ting all of us?

yes he did. he said it comes from demons and the fade which is why it's useless against them.

I call the Bold part BS.

[Daerog]

captain.subtle wrote...

There is MUCH more evidence that Blood shed weakens the veil.. but not blood magic per se.... But since one things leads to the other....

Blood magic does/can weaken the veil, as far as we know, this is how the magisters were able to cross the veil physically. They just needed a lot of blood, so much that it literally flowed on the floor and whatnot.

[captain.subtle]

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...

captain.subtle wrote...

There is MUCH more evidence that Blood shed weakens the veil.. but not blood magic per se.... But since one things leads to the other....

Blood magic does/can weaken the veil, as far as we know, this is how the magisters were able to cross the veil physically. They just needed a lot of blood, so much that it literally flowed on the floor and whatnot.

Agreed.

[filetemo]

jln.francisco wrote...



And like I said, Jowan was able to escape the tower, cross the lake and evade capture for some time so he was fine and why you keep bringing this up is beyond me.

because you assumed he cured himself with blood magic, which is said nowhere ingame, just that.

[Daerog]

Illborne wrote...

A bit of topic, but I'm a little curious:
Why do you think seeking (and potentially achieving) immortality is evil?

I don't wish to go too much offtopic or start a huge rant, but I'll just say there is nothing good about it, it's selfish, it can certainly be destructive to society if everyone became immortal, one would eventually go mad after living for thousands/million of years, among other things.

[captain.subtle]

captain.subtle wrote...

jln.francisco wrote...

captain.subtle wrote...

jln.francisco wrote...

captain.subtle wrote...

jln.francisco wrote...

Dream worlds are not blood magic, the Fade isn't a creation of blood magic.

Actually spirit magic is powered by the Fade and said to come directly from it (going off the codex for it.) the same applies to blood magic.

Any source for that?

Avernus.

Avernus NEVER said that Blood magic is sourced from the Fade.... Are you bull****ting all of us?

yes he did. he said it comes from demons and the fade which is why it's useless against them.

I call the Bold part BS.

I think the entire thing you said is BULLSH*T. He says that they are FAMILIAR not the source.... i just listened to the dialogue.

The exact word is that it COMES from them, not powered by them.

Modifié par captain.subtle, 15 août 2010 - 12:19 .

[Everwarden]

captain.subtle wrote...

Everwarden wrote...

I checked the codex entry and the wiki, the poster was partly right... unprocessed lyrium ore will kill a mage if she/he makes contact with it.

err.. why was I partly right?

I was Right!

You didn't quality that it's only pure lyrium, you just said lyrium. Lyrium as it typically appears in the game isn't harmful, so you were partly right, or should have been more specific.

[filetemo]

uh oh...

[captain.subtle]

jln.francisco wrote...

The exact word is that it COMES from them, not powered by them.

You can't see me, but I'm rolling my eyes at you.

i am sure you do it all the time...

[Daerog]

jln.francisco wrote...

Then I suppose we simply disagree on how important the individual conscious is. To me, if I see someone with a hostage and I have means of ending the situation that guarantee the hostages survival (and that of the hostage taker as well. Jowan is able to immobilize without physically harming anyone) I'm going to use it. Sucks to be that guy but he;s the aggressor and the people he's holding are innocent by standers.

Individual is very important, but that is not where the debate of good/evil comes from. Saying "by any means necessary" is a very evil statement, there are other means that can be used other than blood magic to difuse certain situations which are moral and good. Sad if the innocent dies, but using evil means to defeat evil is still evil.
Here's another question to debate ethics with, would it be good/moral/ethical if Batman just killed the Joker? If Superman just killed Luthor?
Ends don't justify the means, which is why I lean toward blood magic being evil in this debate.

(I seem to disagree with you a lot, don't mean to be your antagonist or anything, just fun debate so far.)

[Riona45]

Just so you know, the caps lock is not an automatic "I win" button.

[Daerog]

Wow, one can be a blood mage and still heal. Where are you guys coming from saying a blood mage can't heal themselves? Using Avernus and Jowan as examples? Blood magic doesn't mean you can't heal yourself....

[captain.subtle]

jln.francisco wrote...

captain.subtle wrote...

jln.francisco wrote...

The exact word is that it COMES from them, not powered by them.

You can't see me, but I'm rolling my eyes at you.

i am sure you do it all the time...

the last time I did it this often was when I was arguing with my old priest over the Pope's policy about contraception in Africa. I wonder what the two of you have in common.

We are both worried why keep rolling your eyes all the time?

[Daerog]

jln.francisco wrote...

the last time I did it this often was when I was arguing with my old priest over the Pope's policy about contraception in Africa. I wonder what the two of you have in common.

Whoa, bringing in real world religous debates can get this thread locked.

[captain.subtle]

Ok. I will drop the angry thing.

Source means you get power from it. origin means you learn from it. If you can't deal with this, then you are your own problem. What Avernus means is the Demons know Blood magic so they can counter it. They are unfamiliar with Darkspawn taint, so they can't counter it.

PS. So ok I might be worng. You are either Bullsh*ting or you need to learn language comprehension.

Modifié par captain.subtle, 15 août 2010 - 12:35 .