tragically too few... But yes there were people like George Washington.DaerogTheDhampir wrote...
Tirigon wrote...
captain.subtle wrote...
There is a great saying somewhere out there:
Power corrupts.
Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
If you´re a weakling that can´t handle responibility, then yes.
If you´re a proud and strong-willed being, then not.
If you are proud, you are already on the road to corruption. Anyway, I would argue that there have been good monarchs in the past, and not everyone is corrupted by power and there is no case in someone having absolute power. It is a good saying to keep in mind, but there have been people with power who were very decent.
Blood Magic
Débuté par
captain.subtle
, août 14 2010 07:41
#126
Posté 15 août 2010 - 01:06
captain.subtle
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Retour en haut
#127
Posté 15 août 2010 - 01:08
Tirigon
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captain.subtle wrote...
listen to the Pride demon dialogue if you will....
So what? Those demons are good at seducing the weak into their traps. They cannot stand against a strong-willed opponent.
#128
Posté 15 août 2010 - 01:10
Tirigon
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DaerogTheDhampir wrote...
If you are proud, you are already on the road to corruption.
Going slightly off-topic: Do you really think so or do you just argue from the ingame stuff with Pride demons and all that?
Cos I think pride is important. You cannot be sure of yourself and your power without the knowledge of your superiority - which may be called pride.
#129
Guest_jln.francisco_*
Posté 15 août 2010 - 01:11
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DaerogTheDhampir wrote...
Tirigon wrote...
captain.subtle wrote...
There is a great saying somewhere out there:
Power corrupts.
Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
If you´re a weakling that can´t handle responibility, then yes.
If you´re a proud and strong-willed being, then not.
If you are proud, you are already on the road to corruption. Anyway, I would argue that there have been good monarchs in the past, and not everyone is corrupted by power and there is no case in someone having absolute power. It is a good saying to keep in mind, but there have been people with power who were very decent.
Generally it comes down to two things 1)personal values and 2)self control. But you'll always get some form of slip up no mater who you're dealing with. the problem is with people in a position beyond the law is that they often go unpunished (like the Turckish (or Ottoman I forget) ruler who once got so upset he hurled a messenger out his palace window. Ran down to fetch him. dragged his body back up and threw him out again). the problem that arises with people with a great deal of power is there is often nothing to prevent them from going to far (George Washington and the slaves he executed on his plantation).
Are these men corrupt? In some ways, yes. Are they bad men? I don't know for sure. Were they good leaders who helped their nations? yes, i think so. But this once again comes down to personal values and how one feels about the 'greater good.'
#130
Guest_jln.francisco_*
Posté 15 août 2010 - 01:16
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Cos I think pride is important. You cannot be sure of yourself and your power without the knowledge of your superiority - which may be called pride.
I wouldn't say superiority but if you doubt yourself you certainly won't go very far. Pride for it's faults drives men to realize their ambition for better or worse. General Patton had lot of pride (and lip) and without it he would not have been the leader and inspirational general he was.
This is not to say humility doesn't have its place. It really is a virtue if no other reason then it keeps people from wanting to fire you for being a loud mouth jerk.
#131
Posté 15 août 2010 - 01:25
EmperorSahlertz
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Pride in your work is commendable, pride in yourself and/or your posistion of power is a curse.
#132
Posté 15 août 2010 - 02:23
KLUME777
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jln.francisco wrote...
Production of nuclear energy does not require you to hurt youself or others.
Neither does the use of Blood Magic. Jowan doesn't kill anyone on his way out of the Tower he simply immobilizes them for a short time while he escapes.
Yes it does, Jowan plunged a knife into his hand, if thats not hurting himself, then i dont know what is.
#133
Guest_jln.francisco_*
Posté 15 août 2010 - 02:26
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KLUME777 wrote...
jln.francisco wrote...
Production of nuclear energy does not require you to hurt youself or others.
Neither does the use of Blood Magic. Jowan doesn't kill anyone on his way out of the Tower he simply immobilizes them for a short time while he escapes.
Yes it does, Jowan plunged a knife into his hand, if thats not hurting himself, then i dont know what is.
Like I said before, my statement isn't a 100% correct. As far as I'm concerned that jowan could escape the tower after performing the spell means he's in good health. I tend to be the suck it up kind of guy anyway so maybe our definitions of hurting are different.
Modifié par jln.francisco, 15 août 2010 - 03:37 .
#134
Posté 15 août 2010 - 05:09
MDarwin
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Surprises me that people intend to judge Blood Mages as "pure utter Evil" in it's worst form. 
I tend to play "Evil" characters, also as Blood Mage. But I do not "kill" anyone just because "I am Evil and I can".
In DAO to have the option for me in the final fight, to use Blood Magic (also against the Mages in the Alianage) gives me an extra option, to defeat the enemy.
Loghain is not Evil and yet because of his utter mistrust/hatred towards the Orleason, he is doing "evil acts".
I tend to play "Evil" characters, also as Blood Mage. But I do not "kill" anyone just because "I am Evil and I can".
In DAO to have the option for me in the final fight, to use Blood Magic (also against the Mages in the Alianage) gives me an extra option, to defeat the enemy.
Loghain is not Evil and yet because of his utter mistrust/hatred towards the Orleason, he is doing "evil acts".
#135
Posté 15 août 2010 - 05:13
Face of Evil
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MDarwin wrote...
Surprises me that people intend to judge Blood Mages as "pure utter Evil" in it's worst form.
Yes, because there are so many examples of "good" blood mages out there.
Blood magic might not be evil, like any other magic, but it is incredibly dangerous. Far too dangerous to allow anyone to practice. The Chantry is completely right in its suppression of blood magic.
Modifié par Face of Evil, 15 août 2010 - 05:16 .
#136
Guest_jln.francisco_*
Posté 15 août 2010 - 05:20
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Face of Evil wrote...
MDarwin wrote...
Surprises me that people intend to judge Blood Mages as "pure utter Evil" in it's worst form.
Yes, because there are so many examples of "good" blood mages out there.
Blood magic might not be evil, like any other magic, but it is incredibly dangerous. Far too dangerous to allow anyone to practice. The Chantry is completely right in its suppression of blood magic.
According to the wiki the Chantry even forbids the examination of anatomy because of how close it can be to blood magic. I don't know where that particular bit comes from but it suggests that the Chantry is a little over zealous in there attempts to crush blood magic. If in their efforts they're damning any chance of actually improving medicine/learning anything about how the body functions they're doing way more harm then good.
#137
Posté 15 août 2010 - 05:26
Riona45
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jln.francisco wrote...
According to the wiki the Chantry even forbids the examination of anatomy because of how close it can be to blood magic. I don't know where that particular bit comes from but it suggests that the Chantry is a little over zealous in there attempts to crush blood magic. If in their efforts they're damning any chance of actually improving medicine/learning anything about how the body functions they're doing way more harm then good.
That part comes from some of the tomes PCs can use to improve their stats and such.
From the Tome of the Mortal Vessel:Fear of blood magic has stigmatized academic dissection, but dedicated scribes keep anatomical works from disappearing.
#138
Posté 15 août 2010 - 05:38
Face of Evil
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jln.francisco wrote...
If in their efforts they're damning any chance of actually improving medicine/learning anything about how the body functions they're doing way more harm then good.
Healing magic sort of renders that argument moot.
#139
Posté 15 août 2010 - 05:43
Riona45
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Face of Evil wrote...
jln.francisco wrote...
If in their efforts they're damning any chance of actually improving medicine/learning anything about how the body functions they're doing way more harm then good.
Healing magic sort of renders that argument moot.
Not really. Of course, *I* tend to believe knowledge is preferable to ignorance. I suppose not everyone agrees with that.
Modifié par Riona45, 15 août 2010 - 05:48 .
#140
Guest_jln.francisco_*
Posté 15 août 2010 - 05:49
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Face of Evil wrote...
jln.francisco wrote...
If in their efforts they're damning any chance of actually improving medicine/learning anything about how the body functions they're doing way more harm then good.
Healing magic sort of renders that argument moot.
No it doesn't because you can never see what exactly is you are healing or how you are mending said wounds. All you know is spell X is cast, individual y no longer has affliction z. You don't know how his sinew was put back together or what may have caused his ailment in the first place. You are shutting off any relaible way to improve the methods you are using except for trial and error. Without some kind of theory to the practice you're shooting in the dark and likely to miss and do more harm then good.
How exactly is this spell going to affect a person this old or that old? How exactly will it react to this diet or that diet? What if the patient has a prexisting condition?
And given the rarity of healing mages, you want some kind of non magical help to keep you alive. Things like the common cold, infections, broken bones can become life threatening when not treated. If you must rely on magical means to keep you going, you're setting yourself up for failure early on.
#141
Posté 15 août 2010 - 05:59
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jln.francisco wrote...
it doesn't because you can never see what exactly is you are healing or how you are mending said wounds. All you know is spell X is cast, individual y no longer has affliction z. You don't know how his sinew was put back together or what may have caused his ailment in the first place.
And how do you know that's not the case? Healing spells are flashes of blue light that restore HP. There's nothing to indicate in-game that the mage isn't directing someone's blood to congeal, their bones to re-knit and their muscles to grow.
jln.francisco wrote...
And given the rarity of healing mages, you want some kind of non magical help to keep you alive. Things like the common cold, infections, broken bones can become life threatening when not treated. If you must rely on magical means to keep you going, you're setting yourself up for failure early on.
They have enough herbalism know-how to make healing potions and they can manufacture injury kits to heal cracked skulls and broken limbs. I'm pretty sure there's some level of medical knowledge already present in Thedas that doesn't rely entirely on magic.
Modifié par Face of Evil, 15 août 2010 - 06:02 .
#142
Posté 15 août 2010 - 06:01
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Face of Evil wrote...
They have injury kits to heal cracked skulls and broken limbs. I'm pretty sure there's some level of medical knowledge already present in Thedas.
Indeed, you just feel it should not increase. Got it.
#143
Posté 15 août 2010 - 06:01
Rubbish Hero
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Not matter but and or, only if balance.
Bioware terrible balance concentrate much on bla bla not enough on swish swosh.
Bioware terrible balance concentrate much on bla bla not enough on swish swosh.
Modifié par Rubbish Hero, 15 août 2010 - 06:03 .
#144
Posté 15 août 2010 - 06:05
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Riona45 wrote...
Indeed, you just feel it should not increase. Got it.
Well now, I never said that. There is value in increasing knowledge of medicine.
However, blood magic should be utterly suppressed, and if an unfortunate byproduct of that practice is a lack of advancement in the field of medicine, so be it. It isn't the worst trade-off, due to the availability of healing magic and potions.
Rubbish Hero wrote...
Not matter but and or, only if balance.
Bioware terrible balance concentrate much on bla bla not enough on swish swosh.
I DARE you to make less sense.
Modifié par Face of Evil, 15 août 2010 - 06:07 .
#145
Posté 15 août 2010 - 06:07
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Healing magic is hardly ubiquitous in the setting. The devs have mentioned that magic isn't as common to the average person in Thedas as it was to our PCs.
#146
Posté 15 août 2010 - 06:08
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Riona45 wrote...
Healing magic is hardly ubiquitous in the setting. The devs have mentioned that magic isn't as common to the average person in Thedas as it was to our PCs.
Irrelevant. The danger of blood magic exceeds the need for medical advancement beyond the point it's already reached.
Modifié par Face of Evil, 15 août 2010 - 06:10 .
#147
Posté 15 août 2010 - 06:09
Riona45
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Face of Evil wrote...
Irrelevant.
No, it is a relevant point to make when you keep saying, "Well, there's healing magic." If you think my point is so irrelevant, then stop bringing up healing magic.
Modifié par Riona45, 15 août 2010 - 06:10 .
#148
Guest_jln.francisco_*
Posté 15 août 2010 - 06:10
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And how do you know that's not the case? Healing spells are flashes of blue light that restore HP. There's nothing to indicate in-game that the mage isn't directing someone's blood to congeal, their bones to re-knit and their muscles to grow.
The mage is casting a spell and only sees the patient after they are 'healed.' He/she never has an opportunity to run any kind of tests to see if the the spell worked as it should. It's the equivalent of your doctor simply asking you if you got better instead of drawing blood to see if your body is reacting as it should.
They have injury kits to heal cracked skulls and broken limbs. I'm pretty sure there's some level of medical knowledge already present in Thedas.
Which likely won't be improved and likely originated elsewhere or under the Tevinters like most magic did. I never claimed they had no knowledge of medicine or the body, just that they had no way of testing theories, examining new treatments or really doing anything medical professionals are supposed to do.
#149
Posté 15 août 2010 - 06:11
Lyono37
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Rubbish Hero wrote...
Not matter but and or, only if balance.
Bioware terrible balance concentrate much on bla bla not enough on swish swosh.
I can never understand what on this Earth your talking about..
#150
Guest_jln.francisco_*
Posté 15 août 2010 - 06:16
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Face of Evil wrote...
Riona45 wrote...
Healing magic is hardly ubiquitous in the setting. The devs have mentioned that magic isn't as common to the average person in Thedas as it was to our PCs.
Irrelevant. The danger of blood magic exceeds the need for medical advancement beyond the point it's already reached.
How so? Magic treatments are remarkebly rare and the most effective method for preventing disease, ect is through prevention which (unless you plan on enchanting everyone in Thedas) means you'll have to rely on other then magical means for it.
