213 réponses à ce sujet

[tonnactus]

Kronner wrote...

On the other hand, if you could Lift anyone just like that, why would you even play?

Thats the point in playing a biotic(mage).Not to pew pew with smgs and then use some biotics on the sliver of health
that is left as finishing moves.

Enemies would essentially be your dummy figures you can throw around as you please.

Thats the point of a crowd control class. To disable enemies.For what biotics are else for? What should be their purpose? Like is said,with penalties that would be balanced enough on higher difficulties. That actual system just didnt make any sense. Even worser then for the adept it is for squadmates that have only crowdcontrol biotics like jacob or subject zero.On insanity,they were not that usefull like someone who has warp or reave.

Overall ME1 combat was a freaking joke.

How that? In the second game shepardt has already abilities that reloads fast and could shoot precisely right at the beginning.The first game was atleast a little challenging at the start(very strong at the end,thats right). Now,the player starts strong right at the beginning.Singularity level one is enough to stop a krogan.And its reload fast enough to keep enemies trapped until they are dead.

What is a freaking joke now is that all classes could survive hits from rocket drones and geth colossus blasts that killed the player instantly in the first game. And that enemy snipers didnt exists anymore.

If a krogan charged me in the second? I can even avoid and outrun him by circle strafing.Thats cool.

Modifié par tonnactus, 17 août 2010 - 07:57 .

[Kronner]

ME2 obviously has flaws - Krogans are a joke, rockets do little damage, no tech or biotic attacks enemies can use (except for lame version of Warp). I fully agree with you about the needed improvements.

But the point of Insanity is to present a bigger challenge than Normal mode. I bet on Normal you can play as Biotic God, if you like toying with enemies with no chance of dying, play it.
On the other hand, other people might not enjoy that, so for them, there's Insanity. Buffing up enemies is the only way to go, any game AI ever made is stupid anyways and sooner or later you will find weakness and  exploit it.

Would you expect Normal and Insanity to be the same? If yes, why?

Modifié par Kronner, 17 août 2010 - 08:09 .

[lazuli]

tonnactus wrote...

Thats the point of a crowd control class. To disable enemies.For what biotics are else for? What should be their purpose?

Biotics are no longer just crowd control + warp debuff.  Biotics, when used effectively in ME2, are now nukers in addition to being crowd control support.  ME2 is not ME1.  The same rules do not need to apply.

In the second game shepardt has already abilities that reloads fast and could shoot precisely right at the beginning.

Wait.  You actually favor a system that forces players to be inaccurate?  You are in favor of the cone of death?

What is a freaking joke now is that all classes could survive hits from rocket drones and geth colossus blasts that killed the player instantly in the first game. And that enemy snipers didnt exists anymore.

Enemies pulling off one hit kills were an example of poor game design, especially on the squadmates who were too stupid to get out of the way.  ME2 is not ME1.  The same rules do not need to apply.

[tonnactus]

Kronner wrote...

But the point of Insanity is to present a bigger challenge than Normal mode.

Thats right.But the protection system didnt make the game challenging,just more tediuos.Like staying more time in cover
waiting that a heavy mech stopped to shoot the machine gun so i could shoot his "protection" away with smg and/or heavy weapons.
That isnt something i understand under challenge.
If enemies could do the same things to me,a player,like i could do to them,that is challenge.An asari vanguard could use lift and carnage after that to kill me.Thats fine.Thats challenge.(to avoid that/,to have the option to damp the enemy)

I bet on Normal you can play as Biotic God, if you like toying with enemies with no chance of dying, play it.

I can put the game game on normal,even casual,enemies like the ymir still have shields and armor. Regular enemies(including subbosses like warden kuril) nether bother me on any difficulty.Thats what singularity is for.(that still affected protected enemies,but its boring that this is the only power that could do that)

Would you expect Normal and Insanity to be the same? If yes, why?

No.Bigger resistences/shorter duration for biotics on insanity is fine.

Modifié par tonnactus, 17 août 2010 - 08:24 .

[Bozorgmehr]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

this is something i i dont agree with. why do you want abilities that arent awesome?  id like abilities to be memorable. id like abilities to destroy entire rooms. which is why i ****ing love ME1 singularity. i never once thought to myself in the 30+ playthroughs of ME1 that my abilities were overpowered. i just thought why isnt throw or lift as awesome as singularty?

the problem with insnaity is that those abilities an adept have become useless. i dont know how you can agrue against that becasue thats exactly what insanity is. the whole rock paper scissors game bioware added to defenses is really bad in my opinion.  it would be ok if it didnt effect my use of abilities. thats the whole god damed reason im playing mass effect TO USE MY ABILITIES!

its sortof useless complaining, but hopefully bioware shows off more then just the combat in ME3.

personally i dont think ME3 should have pre defined classes or maybe we shouldnt have classes at all. i WANT to be overpowered. i want to be a WRECKING BALL FROM HELL. i dont care if my adept can destroy jesus christ himself. it wont take away from my love of ME. but adding layers of defense thats only purpose is to "make me shoot more" is a bad and stupid and pathietic way of so called balancing biotics.

biotics should be awesome! in ME2 they arent. thats my biggest problem.

If you like to play godlike - try playing Adept below Hardcore, (most) enemies don't have protection, you can toy with them any way you like. I like a challenge and clearing rooms without even having to worry about anyone fighting back is very boring to me. The ME2 biotics, though not perfect by any means of course, are much better balanced compared to the ME1 system.

tonnactus wrote...

With the global cooldown system,singularity is the most used ability anyway because its the only one that really crowd control enemies with defenses on.

Spamming Singularity is unwise - you can only have one active at a time.

tonnactus wrote...

Defense stripping isnt a challenge,its just tediuos,boring and as tactical as paper,scissors and rock.Geth primes already had damping in the first game.More tech enemies ,more varied enemy groups,that would be far better then the stupid immunity to biotics as long as the enemy has shields and armor up.

So a tactic for the biotics would be to take out tech enemies first that could stop them.

I don't have any trouble with defense stripping and it ain't boring. Defense are gone before you know it (all weapons have bonus against certain defenses - none against health). With the right squadies, Adepts can clear levels very fast - much faster than an Infiltrator; and even Soldiers will have a hard time keeping up (Vanguards are cheating - they don't have to walk somewhere, they just press a button).

I fight Geth Primes head on with Adept and YMIRs are gone before you know it - there are no enemies Adepts should fear. It only requires some practive and logic to use ME2 biotics effectively on Insanity. Biotics work against protected enemies btw - they're stunned (like Shep being hit by Warp); damage is minor, but it saved my ass many times.

Adepts were boringly OPed in ME1 - they are the coolest class to play with in ME2, period

Modifié par Bozorgmehr, 17 août 2010 - 08:38 .

[tonnactus]

lazuli wrote...


Biotics are no longer just crowd control + warp debuff.

Right.Now most of them just stumble the enemy for half a second and reduce the protection by 1 percent at best.

Wait.  You actually favor a system that forces players to be inaccurate?  You are in favor of the cone of death?

I wrote that that players start with a far stronger character on mass effect 2 insanity then in the first game.

Enemies pulling off one hit kills were an example of poor game design, especially on the squadmates who were too stupid to get out of the way.

It okay if enemies could oneshot shepardt if shepardt himself could do it to. Thats the purpose of higher difficulties.

[tonnactus]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

Spamming Singularity is unwise - you can only have one active at a time.

That is enough.Because enemies are so dumb in Mass Effect 2 that were rarely ever flank shepardt despite their bigger numbers.And when,they do it only from one side.

I don't have any trouble with defense stripping and it ain't boring.

Right,it isnt difficult with an arc projector and/or disruptor ammo. But i prefer it to finish off enemies with weapons after
i ragdoll them then otherwise to strip defenses and use biotics as just fancy finishers.Why i should even use heavy weapons as an adept? Bioware advertised as an class that dont have to use even "normal" guns...
Right,its possible to just warp a ymir mech to death. But thats not what the class is suposed to be.

Biotics work against protected enemies btw - they're stunned (like Shep being hit by Warp); damage is minor, but it saved my ass many times.

Yes,like concussive shot...
It helped when playing a vanguard.

Adepts were boringly OPed in ME1 - they are the coolest class to play with in ME2, period

This went from the adept to the engineer for me.

[lazuli]

tonnactus wrote...

lazuli wrote...
Biotics are no longer just crowd control + warp debuff.

Right.Now most of them just stumble the enemy for half a second and reduce the protection by 1 percent at best.

You're selectively quoting me.  This is what I said: "Biotics are no longer just crowd control + warp debuff.  Biotics, when used effectively in ME2, are now nukers in addition to being crowd control support."

tonnactus wrote...
I wrote that that players start with a far stronger character on mass effect 2 insanity then in the first game.

Ok.  I was afraid you were advocating forced inaccuracy and the cone of death.  If that were the case, I would just have to stop trying to discuss this with you, because there would be no hope.

tonnactus wrote...
It okay if enemies could oneshot shepardt if shepardt himself could do it to. Thats the purpose of higher difficulties.

I am so glad that you are not in charge of designing combat for Mass Effect.

[termokanden]

I think biotics are taking on the more traditional role of mages really rather than just gods of the game. They do crowd control and area effect damage.



It would be a shame to say they just stumble the enemy for half a second and reduce protection by 1%. An unprotected enemy hit by a biotic power is pretty much dead. Furthermore, Singularity IS actually good crowd control, it just isn't overpowered like the ME1 variant.



The biotics system is not perfect now, but it's more fair than it was, and the game as a whole plays a lot better this time around.

[Mr_Raider]

The biotics system is not perfect now, but it's more fair than it was, and the game as a whole plays a lot better this time around.

Fair? Who wants fair. this is a Nioware game. Sorcerers, consulars and arcane warriors are gods. So should adepts

[Aonix]

Oh good lord. I regret making a thread about adepts now. I just wanted help on some stuff. I Suggest this be shut down, because now it's simply people shooting points that have already been discussed before.

Modifié par Aonix, 18 août 2010 - 12:39 .

[The Spamming Troll]

Kronner wrote...

On the other hand, if you could Lift anyone just like that, why would you even play? Enemies would essentially be your dummy figures you can throw around as you please. Overall ME1 combat was a freaking joke. ME2 is much better but it could use some tweaking (special tech and biotic attacks enemies can use against you for instance). Other than that I am glad I can't throw around Geth Prime on Insanity without stripping its defenses first. If I wanted to do that I would play on Normal or something.

i hate that people who think turning down thedifficulty is deamed as the duh factor in terms of being able to use biotics like they are "supposed" to be used.  the problem with biotics is only emphasized by higher difficulty settings. you immediately jump to a conclusion that we must suck at playing with an adept and should just shut up and turn the difficulty down. its a narrow minded answer and its not even close to a solution.

biotics should be the adepts go to "weapon" not a SMG. its like your saying you dont want biotics to be awwesome becasue cloak wont seem as cool er something????? theres no reason NOT to be overpowered.

it just doesnt make sense to me that someone would give me a million dollars and say i could only spend the money from 3am-5am.

[tonnactus]

termokanden wrote...

It would be a shame to say they just stumble the enemy for half a second and reduce protection by 1%.

A shame that is true.

Furthermore, Singularity IS actually good crowd control, it just isn't overpowered like the ME1 variant.

But the only one it works on "protected enemies".And after the player shoot away the "protection",just follow with warp
for the detonation,and thats its basicly,because most enemies are dead after that. It goes even with warp ammo.
Throw and shockwave are just forgettable anyway,because not able as a setup for warp explosion. Lift.Occasionaly at best.

[tonnactus]

The Spamming Troll wrote...


i hate that people who think turning down thedifficulty is deamed as the duh factor in terms of being able to use biotics like they are "supposed" to be used.  the problem with biotics is only emphasized by higher difficulty settings. you immediately jump to a conclusion that we must suck at playing with an adept and should just shut up and turn the difficulty down.

Other games manage it to balance the mage and not castrated it basicly. Someone should just imagine: A jedi,that
have to strip the shields of a stormtrooper first before he could use the force. Its dumb and boring.

[Kronner]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

i hate that people who think turning down thedifficulty is deamed as the duh factor in terms of being able to use biotics like they are "supposed" to be used.  the problem with biotics is only emphasized by higher difficulty settings. you immediately jump to a conclusion that we must suck at playing with an adept and should just shut up and turn the difficulty down. its a narrow minded answer and its not even close to a solution.

biotics should be the adepts go to "weapon" not a SMG. its like your saying you dont want biotics to be awwesome becasue cloak wont seem as cool er something????? theres no reason NOT to be overpowered.

it just doesnt make sense to me that someone would give me a million dollars and say i could only spend the money from 3am-5am.

Just because someone plays on Normal does not mean they suck. You CAN enjoy being overpowered on that setting, you CAN have unlimited fun with biotics on Casual. Why take current Insanity from players who like it as it is? Has it ever occured to you that not everyone likes biotics working right away, on anything and all the time? That's why there are 6 or something difficulty settings, so you can find which one is the best for you. Seriously, complaining about Insanity having ridiculously buffed up enemies is just stupid, it is called Insanity for a reason.

Modifié par Kronner, 18 août 2010 - 11:33 .

[AngryFrozenWater]

Kronner wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

i hate that people who think turning down thedifficulty is deamed as the duh factor in terms of being able to use biotics like they are "supposed" to be used.  the problem with biotics is only emphasized by higher difficulty settings. you immediately jump to a conclusion that we must suck at playing with an adept and should just shut up and turn the difficulty down. its a narrow minded answer and its not even close to a solution.

biotics should be the adepts go to "weapon" not a SMG. its like your saying you dont want biotics to be awwesome becasue cloak wont seem as cool er something????? theres no reason NOT to be overpowered.

it just doesnt make sense to me that someone would give me a million dollars and say i could only spend the money from 3am-5am.

Just because someone plays on Normal does not mean they suck. You CAN enjoy being overpowered on that setting, you CAN have unlimited fun with biotics on Casual. Why take current Insanity from players who like it as it is? Has it ever occured to you that not everyone likes biotics working right away, on anything and all the time? That's why there are 6 or something difficulty settings, so you can find which one is the best for you. Seriously, complaining about Insanity having ridiculously buffed up enemies is just stupid, it is called Insanity for a reason.

It's cool that fire arms do function properly at higher difficulty levels. The next step is to make biotics competitive on those same levels.

[Kronner]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

It's cool that fire arms do function properly at higher difficulty levels. The next step is to make biotics competitive on those same levels.

Weapons also kill much faster on Normal than on Insanity. Same goes for all powers, tech or biotic. Thing is, using powers is easier than using guns. You can't miss with a power, most of them have instant effect (some take some time though) so you are not exposed to enemy fire for long.

I am not saying Insanity is perfect, it could definitely use some tweaking, but since major gameplay changes are unlikely, how would Insanity be any different from Normal if biotics had the same effects on both settings? What would be the point of various difficulty settings?

Modifié par Kronner, 18 août 2010 - 11:44 .

[AngryFrozenWater]

Kronner wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

It's cool that fire arms do function properly at higher difficulty levels. The next step is to make biotics competitive on those same levels.

Weapons also kill much faster on Normal than on Insanity. Same goes for all powers, tech or biotic. Thing is, using powers is easier than using guns. You can't miss with a power, most of them have instant effect (some take some time though) so you are not exposed to enemy fire for long.

I am not saying Insanity is perfect, it could definitely use some tweaking, but since major gameplay changes are unlikely, how would Insanity be any different from Normal if biotics had the same effects on both settings? What would be the point of difficulty settings.

Nah. That's nonsense. It's obvious that you favor fire ams. Look at the Biotic God. Send him in (do the renegade option) and see the result. That's exactly what happens with biotics on higher difficulty settings.

[Kronner]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Nah. That's nonsense. It's obvious that you favor fire ams. Look at the Biotic God. Send him in (do the renegade option) and see the result. That's exactly what happens with biotics on higher difficulty settings.

No I do like the biotics+weapons combo (Vanguard is by far my most favourite class). If you think biotics suck on Insanity, watch any AverageGatsby video. Bozorgmehr has some nice insanity Adept videos too. Biotics are excellent on Insanity, but you need to use them in a different way than you could on Normal. How is that wrong?

Modifié par Kronner, 18 août 2010 - 11:56 .

[AngryFrozenWater]

Kronner wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Nah. That's nonsense. It's obvious that you favor fire ams. Look at the Biotic God. Send him in (do the renegade option) and see the result. That's exactly what happens with biotics on higher difficulty settings.

No I do like the biotics+weapons combo (Vanguard is by far my most favourite class). If you think biotics suck on Insanity, watch any AverageGatsby video. Bozorgmehr has some nice insanity Adept videos too. Biotics are excellent on Insanity, but you need to use them in a different way than you could on Normal. How is that wrong?

The main focus is still guns. Without them there is no way to survive. An adept should focus on biotics. If he/she needs to fire weapons 95% of the time then something is wrong with biotics.

[Kronner]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

The main focus is still guns. Without them there is no way to survive. An adept should focus on biotics. If he/she needs to fire weapons 95% of the time then something is wrong with biotics.

Of course there is, but it would take you longer without guns. Have you watched any of those videos? All the Adept cooldowns go to biotics, you can also use your squad to strip defenses. You only need to strip one guy, pull, warp and boom all the other guys in the group lose their defenses, then you can toy with them.

[AngryFrozenWater]

Kronner wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

The main focus is still guns. Without them there is no way to survive. An adept should focus on biotics. If he/she needs to fire weapons 95% of the time then something is wrong with biotics.

Of course there is, but it would take you longer without guns. Have you watched any of those videos? All the Adept cooldowns go to biotics, you can also use your squad to strip defenses. You only need to strip one guy, pull, warp and boom all the other guys in the group lose their defenses, then you can toy with them.

No there is not. Look closer at those videos. That guy also uses heavy weapons against smaller targets (in the prison break for an example). That's OK, but he couldn't survive without his wweapons. At best he would be spending all his time behind cover waiting for the timers to reach zero. Of course playing a vanguard is about shotguns. That only emphasizes my point.

[Bozorgmehr]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

The main focus is still guns. Without them there is no way to survive. An adept should focus on biotics. If he/she needs to fire weapons 95% of the time then something is wrong with biotics.

The main focus is using guns and powers combined. Same thing with DAO btw, most effective Mage is one using his/her offensive magic and arcane warrior skills harmonious. Let me help with a couple of links:

Adept & Vindicator - Dantius Towers ; Adept & Claymore - Collector Ship ; Biotic Goddess

My Adept couldn't do this without her biotics, its like Soldier's AR - it helps to use weapons effectively, same with Adept; biotics help to dispose enemies (more stylish ). This is ME2, it's the 22nd century - of course you need guns. You can easily play ME2 without ever using any power at all - but it's supposed to make the game more interesting and versatile. I love playing Adept.

[Bozorgmehr]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

No there is not. Look closer at those videos. That guy also uses heavy weapons against smaller targets (in the prison break for an example). That's OK, but he couldn't survive without his wweapons. At best he would be spending all his time behind cover waiting for the timers to reach zero. Of course playing a vanguard is about shotguns. That only emphasizes my point.

I you're talking about me, I completed ME2 (Adept)without squadies and heavy weapons on Insanity twice. Purgatory isn't hard, but small space + lots of shielded enemies = Arc Projector time Not sure why Adept shouldn't use HW anyway - they can; so if they like they should use them.

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

mcsupersport wrote...
 
I just completed a few weeks ago a complete run WITHOUT MY CHARACTER FIRING A SHOT ON HARDCORE!

You don't have to fire a shot with an Adept, and the proper use of powers makes anything past the clearing of protections of the FIRST opponent with guns redundant.

Again, Adepts rock very well without shooting!!  You just have to know how to play them, and what teammates to take.

Please show video of your adept playing insanity and not firing a shot in Tali's Loyalty mission. Thanks, because I don't think it can be done in many areas.