213 réponses à ce sujet

[JaegerBane]

lazuli wrote...
But let's get this back to Adepts, because
that's what this thread is supposed to be about.  Just like Cloak,
Singularity comes with some factors to balance it.  First of all, it
won't completely suspend defended foes.  It just holds defended foes
still for a while.  Secondly, it can't hold an unlimited number of
foes.  Thirdly, the more foes it holds the less time it lasts. 
Singularity needs to be this way because it broke the game in Mass Effect 1.

I've
said it before, but Adepts, as they were in ME1, were completely
broken.  Powers with as strong of effects as Biotics need to have some
balancing mechanisms built in, or the game becomes a joke.

While I agree that Singularity was simply ridiculous in ME1, I'm not sure that the hero-to-zero approach is a particularly good idea when it comes to balancing. Using balance as a license to drastically reduce a power set kind of makes the assumption that all power sets receive the same type of treatment, which they patently haven't.

It's very difficult to take the argument about singularity nerfing seriously when you've got absurdly overpowered abilities like Adrenaline Rush in the game, for example.

I do think the idea of defences blunting the force of biotics has some merit - I just think that going completely overboard and virtually cancelling the effects altogether was just a poorly thought out concept that not only skewed class balance but also rendered certain squadmates virtually useless above Normal. That fact alone calls into question just how much effort Bioware put into playtesting the changes, as the problems are quite blatant.

Kronner wrote...
No I do like the biotics+weapons combo (Vanguard is by far my most favourite class). If you think biotics suck on Insanity, watch any AverageGatsby video. Bozorgmehr has some nice insanity Adept videos too. Biotics are excellent on Insanity, but you need to use them in a different way than you could on Normal. How is that wrong?

It isn't 'wrong' per se - it's just that people who choose biotic classes do so primarily for the physics attacks and CC element. Combat and Tech classes function on Insanity pretty much the same way they do on Casual. Biotics blatantly don't. That is what is causing the grief.

Modifié par JaegerBane, 18 août 2010 - 02:55 .

[Kronner]

JaegerBane wrote...

It isn't 'wrong' per se - it's just that people who choose biotic classes do so primarily for the physics attacks and CC element. Combat and Tech classes function on Insanity pretty much the same way they do on Casual. Biotics blatantly don't. That is what is causing the grief.

Really? Are you saying tech and guns are just as effective on Insanity as they are on Casual? Seriously? Are there any defenses at all on Casual? All, tech, biotic and combat powers are less efficient on Insanity, that is obvious. Biotics are usable on Insanity, but you have to use your squad/weapons to strip defenses first. Why should Insanity feel like Casual with more accurate enemies?

About CC, I ask again, if you could toy with the mercs right away, what would be the difference between Casual and Insanity? None. You would just cast Singularity and watch them spin on both settings. All you need to do is use your squad or weapons on Insanity. Nothing more. I understand Insanity is not ideal, but unless the game gets major AI upgrade, rocket soldiers and snipers that can easily kill you if you are reckless, and enemies that can also use the same attacks we can (at least some of them), it would be a complete joke to just waltz in and toy with them ME1 style.

Modifié par Kronner, 18 août 2010 - 03:07 .

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

Kronner wrote...
. Biotics are usable on Insanity, but you have to use your squad/weapons to strip defenses first. Why should Insanity feel like Casual with more accurate enemies?

The soldier classes (soldier, vangard, infiltrator) play the same regardless of difficulty level.

The adept is supposed to be the opposite of the soldier. The soldier is the weapons master the adept is supposed to be the biotics master and should concentrate on his biotics regardless of difficulty level.

The adept in insanity is forced to start shooting a lot, turning him into a gimped soldier. The adept class was not designed for shooting. He has no ammo powers and his passive does not boost weapon damage.

I don't think anyone wants insanity to "feel like casual." Why should an adept become a gimped soldier on inanity?

Really? Are you saying tech and guns are just as effective on Insanity as they are on Casual? Seriously?

Are you claiming that guns/ammo are as affected by difficulty level as biotics? Seriously???!?!?!?!

Modifié par Grumpy Old Wizard, 18 août 2010 - 03:35 .

[JaegerBane]

Kronner wrote...
Really? Are you saying tech and guns are just as effective on Insanity as they are on Casual? Seriously? Are there any defenses at all on Casual? All, tech, biotic and combat powers are less efficient on Insanity, that is obvious. Biotics are usable on Insanity, but you have to use your squad/weapons to strip defenses first. Why should Insanity feel like Casual with more accurate enemies?

No. I'm saying that Adepts don't play the same way across difficulty levels in the way that combat or tech classes do. It might take a soldier a bit longer to blast through defences but at the end of the day, you're still just switching on AR and shooting. Same with Techies - an Engineer still relies on their drone and ability spam. There's nothing radically different between how these classes play on different difficulties - the only major difference is that defences are thicker and hence combat takes longer.

On the Adept, the differences are quite noticeable. They play in what is essentially a totally different manner - going from being a biotic physics specialist to someone dependant on Warp Bombs and team mates. You can't realistically expect such a situation to go down well with the players. It's like saying the soldier should only get pistols and assault rifles on insanity. It's a critical part of the enjoyment of the class for many.

As Grumpy old wizard said... unless you're claiming that guns and ammo powers function differently in Insanity to how they do on Casual, I'm not really sure what your point is.

About CC, I ask again, if you could toy with the mercs right away, what would be the difference between Casual and Insanity? None. You would just cast Singularity and watch them spin on both settings. All you need to do is use your squad or weapons on Insanity. Nothing more. I understand Insanity is not ideal, but unless the game gets major AI upgrade, rocket soldiers and snipers that can easily kill you if you are reckless, and enemies that can also use the same attacks we can (at least some of them), it would be a complete joke to just waltz in and toy with them ME1 style.

This is the reason why I agree that biotics should at least be *lessened* in some way. That doesn't, however, mean it's a good idea to simply wipe out the effects full stop.

And it is worth remembering that the doomsday scenario you mention exists for some classes in the game already. As I said to lazuli, the argument that stuff needs to be nerfed to preserve balance when there are classes in the game like soldiers with their absurd 3-sec cooldown superpower of doom ultimately becomes very, very hollow. Balance is one of those things that needs to be applied to all classes for it to work.

I realise that the existence of overpowered classes in the game isn't reason to overpower others, either. But it doesn't change the situatiion that players who want to play Adepts on insanity the way they were meant to be played are effectively shafted.

Ergo the annoyance.  

Modifié par JaegerBane, 18 août 2010 - 03:42 .

[Kronner]

Well, that video is clearly made on Normal or lower, I think even the description says Normal is baseline experience for ME2.
Adepts do not lack firepower - you can get AR or SR training 5 hours into the game - problem solved. You can take ammo bonus power or just use squad version from Grunt/Jacob/etc.

classes do not have to be balanced, but biotics working through defences on everything (or almost everything) would break the game - biotics would have to be nerfed in one way or the other. Players can get the exact experience described in that official video, just not on Insanity.

From my personal experience, Adepts are still best CC class in the game, by far. No other class can lock Harbinger/Scions/etc. just like that.
There are some stupid things ie Singularity not working on the "dogs" etc., but do these minions even present a problem? I doubt it would make Adepts more powerful.

I'd love to know what changes would you guys make (that can be made - we are hardly getting new enhanced AI or anything drastic) to make Adepts more enjoyable on Insanity.

Modifié par Kronner, 18 août 2010 - 04:07 .

[JaegerBane]

Kronner wrote...

Well, that video is clearly made on Normal or lower, I think even the description says Normal is baseline experience for ME2.
Adepts do not lack firepower - you can get AR or SR training 5 hours into the game - problem solved. You can take ammo bonus power or just use squad version from Grunt/Jacob/etc.

Well, this is the issue Kronner - it shouldn't matter what difficulty level that video is shot on. They're advertising the class, not the class on a certain difficulty level. This is the kind of gameplay that people expect when they choose to play an Adept. You look at the videos for all other classes, and not one would be radically different no matter the difficulty level. The Sentinel's tech armour doesn't suddenly fail to go off like a flashbang on insanity. Insanity enemies can't suddenly see through cloak. AR doesn't reduce in time or damage.

The Adept is alone in this.

As for the question of firepower - again, I'm not really sure what your point is. Adepts are not about firepower. Christina even mentions that they're supposed to rely on their biotics first and foremost.

classes do not have to be balanced, but biotics working through defences on everything (or almost everything) would break the game - biotics would have to be nerfed in one way or the other.

To be honest, I'm not really sure what your rational is. If classes do not have to be balanced, then there is no reason whatsoever why biotics shouldn't affect enemies through defences. The balance argument is the *sole* reasoning why the ME1 abilities had to be changed.

You can't have it both ways. There is little point trying to argue that balance should only apply to some classes and not others - that's utter nonsense. The very concept of balance fails if it isn't equally applied - that's why AR is broken in the first place, because it's so far out of whack with everything else.

Players can get the exact experience described in that official video, just not on Insanity.

Uh... that's exactly the point. Do you see anyone on here complaining about how the Adept plays on Normal?

From my personal experience, Adepts are still best CC class in the game, by far. No other class can lock Harbinger/Scions/etc. just like that.
There are some stupid things ie Singularity not working on the "dogs" etc., but do these minions even present a problem? I doubt it would make Adepts more powerful.

That's all they do, though. Lockdown scions and harbys. You can't really blame people for not being satisfied with that. Much of what makes the Adept so fun to play revolves around biotic combos and their awesome CC skills - all of which are massively diluted and virtually unrecognisable beyond Veteran (to a *vastly* greater degree than the effect Insanity has on other powers - for instance, things like AR, cloak and Drone aren't even affected at all).

Hell, some of the classes in ME2 are so powerful they don't even *need* CC.

I'd love to know what changes would you guys make (that can be made - we are hardly getting new enhanced AI or anything drastic) to make Adepts more enjoyable on Insanity.

Well, ultimately, the current situation is a result of the cack-handed defence system used in ME2, not really biotics as such. Under the current system, I think I would have gone for defences simply reducing the effect. So, for instance, Singularity would cause people to float for about 1/4-1/6 the time they would defenceless, and Throw would hit enemies with, what, 200-400 less newtons? This essentially puts them on level-pegging with firearms, at least.

Modifié par JaegerBane, 18 août 2010 - 04:32 .

[Simbacca]

Git ur gunz outta me aaRPeeGee!!!

This comes up time and time again.  The fundamental problem some people have with the Adept's gameplay on Hardcore/Insanity in ME2 is that it doesn't play the way they envision their "mage" class should play.  The problem is the cone vision these RPGs players have.  Look I'm a huge RPG fan, RPGs have always been my favorite gaming genre since I was a child.  However this game, this franchise, is not supposed to have RPG combat.  Combat in ME2 is generally considered an improvement over ME1 (despite how much I love ME1) precisely because Bioware realized how much they still needed to realize just that.  It has exactly the combat it is supposed to have now, good third person shooter gameplay.  That's the whole premise of these hybrid shooter RPGs: RPG's story, choices, questing, and stats with shooter combat.  Saying the player should have to shoot in a game that is part shooter is ridiculous. 

And saying a future marine that has biotic abilities shouldn't have to utilize the advanced weapons technology available to him to combat all the other enemies of this future that also utilize said advanced weapon and defense technology should be as ridiculous to RolePlaying Gamers as taking a biotic bonus talent on a non-biotic class is.

There is a reason there isn't a class named "Mage" in this game, because there is no mage class.  This is not a high fantasy RPG.  This is not a universe where it is wise to stand around concentrating, lost in focus for some huge spell, because the enemies aren't running at you from across the field in their leather tunics waving their swords.  No, instead they are shooting at you, constantly, with future powered guns, while wearing armor and utlitizing shields that both have been engineered to provide the protection the consumer expects from the various weapons, biotics, and tech attacks one could face in this reality.

And yet, even with this fundamental understanding of this futuristic third person shooter/rpg hybrid's universe, Bioware still gave the Adept fans exactly what they wanted.  Bioware has stated numerous times that their vision of the baseline ME2 experience is Normal difficulty.  The Adept plays almost exactly as is being requested by some on 3 of the 5 difficulty settings, including they one they built as the main intented ME2 experience. 

This right here is the other part of the fundamental problem; people's own twisted and silly insecurity over what "difficutly setting" means to them.  Many people have said if you want to play the Adept that way, just pick one of the three game settings out of the five that let you play they way.  Yet the response is invariably a huff of "i should be able to play Adept the way it's meant to played on Normal on any other non-canon game setting".  My question is why?  Who cares if you play your single player futuristic third person shooter/RPG hybrid like the mage you want to play on Veteran instead?  Nobody here cares if you do, that's why we suggest it.  It's simple but instead you post that you shouldn't have to play a third person shooter hybrid like a shooter on that game's highest difficulty setting for it's shooter combat.  That's your own insecurity talking; none of us care what setting you find the gameplay fun on and neither should you.  Of course in this hyper-technological game universe, Bioware would provide some of the same expensive future defense tech to the grunts for their high difficulty variant modes as only the officers have on the canon normal game mode.

The problem is simply the naming.  Had Hardcore and Insanity not been listed under difficulty, and instead there was a seperate line in the game options for "Enemy defenses" modes 1 and 2, you wouldn't hear this same complaining.  People that wanted to play their mages would just have been playing on the highest "difficulty" setting of Veteran and would of felt just fine leaving this non-canon variant mode options unchecked.  It's their own need to feel like their playing their mages on the highest "difficulty" setting that sets them off.  Normal is canon, Bioware's baseline ME2 experience.  Hardcore and Insanity are just non-canon game mode variants where every mook in the galaxy can afford expense advanced shield and armor technology. 

And don't forget why these variants exist in the game, because of the legacy of ME's shooter gameplay inspirations.  The ME series is made to appeal to some RPG and shooter fans.  RPG fans dig choices, plot, dialogue, and those experiences are the same across all modes (difficulties).  Shooter fans dig intense, reactive, and challanging combat, and have come to expect their games having hardcore and insane difficutly setting to push their reaction times to the limit to get those last achievements.

And yet even with understanding all this, Bioware has still done an excellent job with making mixed shooter and biotic/tech combat on all difficulties perfectly viable.  Any class can get through the game just fine.  An Adept is not supposed to have to shoot on the hardest game variant mode that is in place to push the player's reaction time in a game featuring third person shooter combat?  That's bull, what else is a marine supposed to do during his powers' cooldown in the middle of a gun-fight?  Ignore the easy to use death dealing technology at his disposal?  I think not.  Are you telling me that in some crazy freak inter-dimensional fictional universes traveling accident that a high fantasy wizard wouldn't pick up some of these easy to use quick death dealing guns that eveyone he faces would be carrying?  Why because of some oath to the circle of mages or some crap?  This ain't Middle Earth anymore Gandalf, grab some high-tech weapons and armor to compliment your magic or die the instant the first enemy sniper sees you before you can even think to say "hocus pocus".

Modifié par Simbacca, 18 août 2010 - 04:45 .

[NICKjnp]

To add to the discussion... an adept on hardcore and insanity basically doesn't use Shockwave (which arguably one of the most awesome powers on veteran and below). On Insanity it is a joke because it doesn't do anything to enemies with defenses.

[tonnactus]

Kronner wrote...

I am not saying Insanity is perfect, it could definitely use some tweaking, but since major gameplay changes are unlikely, how would Insanity be any different from Normal if biotics had the same effects on both settings?

I give you one example why the suggestions not meant to be biotics work the same on insanity:

Lifting an enemy on normal should be the full duration.
Lifting an enemy on insanity: Half of the duration.

Lifting a subboss like the ymir: 30/20 percent of the duration decacipation.

But not 100 percent immunity to most biotics.

Its not the same effect but most powers would still have a sense instead of being wasted talent point slots.

Modifié par tonnactus, 18 août 2010 - 04:46 .

[tonnactus]

dp

Modifié par tonnactus, 18 août 2010 - 04:46 .

[Bozorgmehr]

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

Please show video of your adept playing insanity and not firing a shot in Tali's Loyalty mission. Thanks, because I don't think it can be done in many areas.

I'll try, can be done I think. Geth are easy, you only need Energy Drain. As long as Geth are still standing, you cannot die. I'll assume melee attacks are still permitted. Gonna give it a go this weekend, if I can pull it of - I'll post a vid.

The soldier classes (soldier, vangard, infiltrator) play the same regardless of difficulty level.

The adept is supposed to be the opposite of the soldier. The soldier is the weapons master the adept is supposed to be the biotics master and should concentrate on his biotics regardless of difficulty level.

The adept in insanity is forced to start shooting a lot, turning him into a gimped soldier. The adept class was not designed for shooting. He has no ammo powers and his passive does not boost weapon damage.

I don't think anyone wants insanity to "feel like casual." Why should an adept become a gimped soldier on inanity?

Are you claiming that guns/ammo are as affected by difficulty level as biotics? Seriously???!?!?!?!

Soldier's and Infiltrator's power do nothing against enemies (you can activate AR/Cloak a hundred times and still enemy's shields aren't scratched) they help Shep, making it even easier to fire accurately. Of course these powers don't function differently on harder difficulty levels.

ME2 is a shooter, you have to shoot guns - but all classes have different skills to assist and making shooting and killing easier. Adepts don't become gimped Soldiers on Insanity (other way around really) - once Adept has Locust and even better bonus weapon - they have equal firepower plus a lot of different powers. Soldier only has AR. I consider ammo powers to be pretty insignificant, (almost) never use them on my Adept. Other squadmate powers are much more useful.

Kronner wrote...

I'd love to know what changes would you guys make (that can be made - we are hardly getting new enhanced AI or
anything drastic) to make Adepts more enjoyable on Insanity.

Good point. I can't think of something making Adept more powerful without making playing Insanity as trival as it was in ME1 - I prefer ME2 system

Modifié par Bozorgmehr, 18 août 2010 - 04:49 .

[JaegerBane]

Simbacca wrote...

Git ur gunz outta me aaRPeeGee!!!

This comes up time and time again.  The fundamental problem some people have with the Adept's gameplay on Hardcore/Insanity in ME2 is that it doesn't play the way they envision their "mage" class should play. 

Simbacca, I respect the amount of thought you've put into your take on the matter.

But to put it bluntly, the idea that all of this stems from some sort of weird psychological presumption about RPG mages is complete nonsense.

What biotics are and how they work in combat has been established in multiple books and ME1, not to mention advertised as such in what Christina Norman specifically refers to as 'biotic warriors that are capable of killing and controlling enemies using only their biotic powers'.

This is how the devs say they work. This is how the fiction says it works. This is not a case of assumptions via 'RPG cone-vision' or whatever.

Modifié par JaegerBane, 18 août 2010 - 04:50 .

[sinosleep]

And as has been posted time and again, ALL of bioware's official comments on classes and gameplay are based on normal difficulty. ANYONE that mentions anything from the devs that plays on anything other than normal is in the wrong.

Modifié par sinosleep, 18 août 2010 - 04:52 .

[JaegerBane]

NICKjnp wrote...

To add to the discussion... an adept on hardcore and insanity basically doesn't use Shockwave (which arguably one of the most awesome powers on veteran and below). On Insanity it is a joke because it doesn't do anything to enemies with defenses.

Exactly. Shockwave perfectly sums up the utter futility of claiming that biotic nerfs need to be so major.

[JaegerBane]

sinosleep wrote...

And as has been posted time and again, ALL of bioware's official comments on classes and gameplay are based on normal difficulty. ANYONE that mentions anything from the devs that plays on anything other than normal is in the wrong.

*Scratches head*

And, this means that Insanity Adepts must play completely differently, because....?

[lazuli]

JaegerBane wrote...

sinosleep wrote...

And as has been posted time and again, ALL of bioware's official comments on classes and gameplay are based on normal difficulty. ANYONE that mentions anything from the devs that plays on anything other than normal is in the wrong.

*Scratches head*

And, this means that Insanity Adepts must play completely differently, because....?

I can clarify this.  What I believe sinosleep means is that Christina's comments on the Adept's ability to kill without guns only applies to normal mode, what the developers have said is the true Mass Effect 2 experience.  So you are certainly free to believe that Adepts should be able to kill with only their powers on Insanity, just don't use developer commentary to back you up when the developers in question were, through implication, referring to normal mode.

[tonnactus]

Bozorgmehr wrote...


Soldier's and Infiltrator's power do nothing against enemies (you can activate AR/Cloak a hundred times and still enemy's shields aren't scratched) they help Shep, making it even easier to fire accurately.

Soldiers powers in combination with the class power did a lot against enemies.They just deliver them with bullets.
A 100 percent damage increase right at the start of level one adrenaline rush in combination with ammo powers is nothing the adept could compete with.Its ridicoulus to even discuss about it.

[Kronner]

Simbacca wrote...

Git ur gunz outta me aaRPeeGee!!!

....

That (very long) post pretty much sums it up.

I would also like to see better Insanity next time around (enemies have special attacks - overload your shields, disable your abilities for some time, throw you to the ground, warp your barrier etc.; smarter AI, not just 100% accurate cheaters; deadly snipers are back; rockets do significant damage, not just stagger; krogans are not jokes anymore; etc.) but I do understand that within the current gameplay mechanics, there is nothing better than the defense layers system. You will have to shoot no matter what.

Btw biotics in books certainly can't be used every 4 seconds (just an example). Would you prefer unleashing powerful throw and then wait 90-120 seconds before you can do it again? You would have to shoot in the meantime anyways. Gameplay is more important than lore. Thank god for that.

Modifié par Kronner, 18 août 2010 - 05:27 .

[sinosleep]

lazuli wrote...

I can clarify this.  What I believe sinosleep means is that Christina's comments on the Adept's ability to kill without guns only applies to normal mode, what the developers have said is the true Mass Effect 2 experience.  So you are certainly free to believe that Adepts should be able to kill with only their powers on Insanity, just don't use developer commentary to back you up when the developers in question were, through implication, referring to normal mode.

There ya go, STOP referencing comments that have nothing to do with the difficulty you are complaining about. It's fine to suggest alternative means to ramp up the difficulty from normal to insanity but to quote the devs adnauseum when the comments don't apply is ridiculous.

[Bozorgmehr]

tonnactus wrote...

Soldiers powers in combination with the class power did a lot against enemies.They just deliver them with bullets.
A 100 percent damage increase right at the start of level one adrenaline rush in combination with ammo powers is nothing the adept could compete with.Its ridicoulus to even discuss about it.

Early game Soldiers have an advantage - after Collector ship Adepts have more killing power (When Infiltrator is shooting his/her 2nd or 3rd shot - cowardly behind cover/cloaked - Adept is already tearing through next level). You keep saying Adepts are weak - they aren't. Biotics just have to be used differently on Insanity - thats all.

I guess they gave Soldier just one ability; coz soldiers are (most of the time) brain-death-trigger-happy fools. Adepts fight with a plan and with style

[tonnactus]

Bozorgmehr wrote...


I guess they gave Soldier just one ability; coz soldiers are (most of the time) brain-death-trigger-happy fools.

Ah no. Soldiers are more versatile then sentinels now,having special tools against all defenses.Even crowd control in form of
cyro ammo and concussive shot.

[Bozorgmehr]

tonnactus wrote...

Ah no. Soldiers are more versatile then sentinels now,having special tools against all defenses.Even crowd control in form of
cyro ammo and concussive shot.

More versatile? Tools against all defenses? Crowd control? You must be talking about Sentinels (pretty much the ingame description). Soldier can only fire guns like all classes, they only have AR to help improve it a bit, ammo powers help shooting (a litte) too. Just fire away isn't versatile at all (I consider it pretty boring, but that's just my opinion), the Soldier's CC abilities only work on unprotected enemies - didn't you called this the main 'weakness' of the Adept class?

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

sinosleep wrote...

lazuli wrote...

I can clarify this.  What I believe sinosleep means is that Christina's comments on the Adept's ability to kill without guns only applies to normal mode, what the developers have said is the true Mass Effect 2 experience.  So you are certainly free to believe that Adepts should be able to kill with only their powers on Insanity, just don't use developer commentary to back you up when the developers in question were, through implication, referring to normal mode.

There ya go, STOP referencing comments that have nothing to do with the difficulty you are complaining about. It's fine to suggest alternative means to ramp up the difficulty from normal to insanity but to quote the devs adnauseum when the comments don't apply is ridiculous.

Sorry, it is not only the traileer that is lying then. Look at the class description on the official website:
http://masseffect.bi.../classes/adept/

The Adept, outfitted with L5x implants, is a biotic specialist, capable of disabling and killing enemies with raw biotic power. With their unique talents, Adepts are the only class able to deploy the Singularity power, a lethal biotic trap capable of snaring multiple enemies. When enemies hide behind cover Adepts are able to Pull them, exposing them for a deadly follow-up attack. Additionally Adepts are able to throw the opposition with their Push ability, making cliffs and ledges lethal opportunities. While they lack advanced combat training, Adepts are the
best class at defeating enemies without firing a shot.

I see nothing about "only in normal mode" either. If they truly intended the adept to shift from being the biotic master killing without firing shots to a gimped soldier heavily dependant on his guns and squad that was an unbalanced game decision that they should have known would make adept fans unhappy.


I think vanguard players would be upset if they could not use charge on insanity until protections had been stripped off the target. Likewise if a soldier could only use a pistol and no adreniline rush until the protection were stripped off there would be a lot of hate.

Oh, and what if all protected enemies could see through a cloak?

Modifié par Grumpy Old Wizard, 18 août 2010 - 06:14 .

[Bozorgmehr]

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

I see nothing about "only in normal mode" either. If they truly intended the adept to shift from being the biotic master killing without firing shots to a gimped soldier heavily dependant on his guns and squad that was an unbalanced game decision that they should have known would make adept fans unhappy.

I think vanguard players would be upset if they could not use charge on insanity until protections had been stripped off the target. Likewise if a soldier could only use a pistol and no adreniline rush until the protection were stripped off there would be a lot of hate.

Can you explain what you mean with 'gimped'? Are you suggesting Soldier should be the only class able to use weapons?

I can't see your problem with this 'doesn't work on protected enemies' issue. One Singularity will remove protection of all normal enemies - it just takes a few seconds, but since target is immobilized that doesn't matter. Adepts can use Warp (very effective against armor and barriers) - Energy Drain is best shield removing power, any class can use it.

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

Can you explain what you mean with 'gimped'? Are you suggesting Soldier should be the only class able to use weapons?

Gimped as in a soldier who is much less powerful than a soldier. An adept has no ammo power and his passive does not improve shooting in any way. The soldier is supposed to be the weapons master and the adept the biotics master.

I can't see your problem with this 'doesn't work on protected enemies' issue. One Singularity will remove protection of all normal enemies - it just takes a few seconds, but since target is immobilized that doesn't matter. Adepts can use Warp (very effective against armor and barriers) - Energy Drain is best shield removing power, any class can use it

Energy drain is a tech power and a bonus power, not an adept power and thus should not enter into the discussion. If energy drain is necessary for the adept to be able to kill without firing a shot it should be an adept power.

No, one singularity will not remove all of the protection of enemies in insanity in a few seconds. Although I am not particularly thrilled with what happens to unprotected enemies in a singularity since they are likely to be thrown behind or on top of you.

Modifié par Grumpy Old Wizard, 18 août 2010 - 06:30 .