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[jbblue05]

 Adepts are still powerhouses on insanity.
I always bring Jack and Samara/Morinth except loyalty middions and we demolish everything in our path
I actually died less with the Adept then the Soldier 

I'm glad Bioware mad you strip defenses before your powers work
I mean Biotics been around for a while I;m sure someone has created Shields and armor that protect against biotics

Shockwave is still useful with enemies shields up it slows them down takes away their cloaks and knocks them out of cover so you can get crucial shots on them

No matter what class you play your an N7 marine you have to be efficient with guns

One thing I recommend is Heavy Barrier the Adepts barrier is gone the time you pop out of cover:huh:

[Bozorgmehr]

jbblue05 wrote...
One thing I recommend is Heavy Barrier the Adepts barrier is gone the time you pop out of cover:huh:

With Heavy Barrier, Adepts hardly need to get cover

[Alamar2078]

A better question is why is an Adept out of cover to start with? I always had much more success with my adepts if I just sat back and spammed powers with a few weapon shots here & there.



I must add that I loved Energy Drain on missions where goons had shields

[Simbacca]

JaegerBane wrote...

Simbacca wrote...

Git ur gunz outta me aaRPeeGee!!!

This comes up time and time again. The fundamental problem some people have with the Adept's gameplay on Hardcore/Insanity in ME2 is that it doesn't play the way they envision their "mage" class should play.

Simbacca, I respect the amount of thought you've put into your take on the matter.

But to put it bluntly, the idea that all of this stems from some sort of weird psychological presumption about RPG mages is complete nonsense.

What biotics are and how they work in combat has been established in multiple books and ME1, not to mention advertised as such in what Christina Norman specifically refers to as 'biotic warriors that are capable of killing and controlling enemies using only their biotic powers'.

This is how the devs say they work. This is how the fiction says it works. This is not a case of assumptions via 'RPG cone-vision' or whatever.

And taking one generalized line and saying you disagree while omitting and ignoring all the actually arguments I was making after that does not invalid the entire post. That's like burning a strawman.

Ok the intro to my original post probably wasn't the best. First line was a twist on the old joke of "git off my lawn". Probably the wrong time for humor since that gives the wrong impression of what I was trying to say right off the bat. Second, trying to think of an intro that summerizes the various points I was about to detail throughout the rest of the post, which went every from franchise gameplay intentions to the game's setting, and think of it before even knowing what I was going to end up writing is difficult. By the time I was done making my arguments, I know someone was going to quote just my first generalized statements, say no that's not the case, and ignore the rest of my actually arguments, but I was sick of typing (yes it's long, takes far more effort and time to contribute a long post than the whole eternity of one minute it would take any normal person to read it).

And don't take my mention of mages so literal as to think I'm implying people want pointy-hatted wizards in their ME. I was talking about the perceived pure mage-archtype combat playstyle that many RPGs have. Guess I should of said that 5 word phrase everytime I said mage but my post was long enough. Besides anyone that actually read my post would of known I was talking about the playstyle of powers only/no weapons anwyay.

For the forum in general though; paragraphs not enough formatting for all? Ok, I'll try again, some edits, some more formatting (though i fear it will still draw people to one liners and not the whole argument, but oh well):

Simbacca wrote...

• Look I'm a huge RPG fan, RPGs have always been my favorite gaming genre since I was a child. However this game, this franchise, is not supposed to have RPG combat. Combat in ME2 is generally considered an improvement over ME1 (despite how much I love ME1) precisely because Bioware realized how much they still needed to realize just that. It has exactly the combat it is supposed to have now, good third person shooter gameplay. That's the whole premise of these hybrid shooter RPGs: RPG's story, choices, questing, and stats with shooter combat. Saying the player should have to shoot in a game that is part shooter is ridiculous.
  
  And saying a future marine that has biotic abilities shouldn't have to utilize the advanced weapons technology available to him to combat all the other enemies of this future that also utilize said advanced weapon and defense technology should be as ridiculous to RolePlaying Gamers as taking a biotic bonus talent on a non-biotic class is.
  
• There is a reason there isn't a class named "Mage" in this game, because there is no mage-archetype combat-playstyle class (and the closest in ME2 is the Engineer, not the Adept). This is not a pure RPG, this also doesn't take place in a high fantasy universal where technology (or the lack thereof) can be ignored. This is not a universe where it is wise to be a pure caster and ignore the weapons at your disposal because the enemies aren't just running at you from across the field in their leather tunics waving their melee weapons. No, instead they are shooting at you, constantly, with future powered guns, while wearing armor and utilizing shields that both have been engineered to provide the protection the consumer of this future would expect from the various weapons, biotics, and tech attacks one could face in this reality.
  
  And yet, even with this fundamental understanding of this futuristic third person shooter/rpg hybrid's universe, Bioware still gave the Adept fans exactly what they wanted for the canon experience. Bioware has stated numerous times that their vision of the baseline ME2 experience is Normal difficulty. The Adept plays almost exactly as is being requested by some on 3 of the 5 difficulty settings, including they one they built as the main intented ME2 experience.
  
• This right here is the other part of the fundamental problem; people's own twisted and silly insecurity over what "difficutly setting" means to them. Many people have said if you want to play the Adept that way, just pick one of the three game settings out of the five that let you play they way. Yet the response is invariably a huff of "i should be able to play Adept the way it's meant to played on Normal on any other non-canon game setting". My question is why? Who cares if you play your single player futuristic third person shooter/RPG hybrid like the mage-archetype-playstyle you want to play on Veteran instead? Nobody here cares if you do, that's why we suggest it. It's simple but instead people post that you shouldn't have to play a third person shooter hybrid like a shooter on that game's highest difficulty setting for it's shooter combat. That's people's own insecurities talking; none of us care what setting you find the gameplay fun on and neither should you. Of course in this hyper-technological game universe, Bioware would provide some of the same expensive future defense tech to the grunts for their high difficulty variant modes as only the officers have on the canon normal game mode.
  
  The problem is simply the naming. Had Hardcore and Insanity not been listed under difficulty, and instead there was a seperate line in the game options for "Combat Variants" with "Enemy Defenses 1" and "Enemy Defenses 2" settings, you wouldn't hear these same complaints. People that wanted to play their mage-archetype-playstyle would just have been playing on the highest "difficulty" setting of Veteran and would of felt just fine leaving this non-canon variant mode options unchecked. It's their own need to feel like their playing their mage-archetype-playstyle Adept on the highest "difficulty" setting that sets them off. Normal is canon, Bioware's baseline ME2 experience. Hardcore and Insanity are just non-canon game mode variants where every mook in the galaxy can afford expense advanced shield and armor technology.
  
• And don't forget why these variants exist in the game, because of the legacy of ME's shooter gameplay inspirations. The ME series is made to appeal to some RPG and shooter fans. RPG fans dig choices, plot, dialogue, and those experiences are the same across all modes (difficulties). Shooter fans dig intense, reactive, and challenging combat, and have come to expect their games having hardcore and insane difficulty setting to push their reaction times to the limit to get those last achievements.
  
• And yet even with understanding all this, Bioware has still done an excellent job with making mixed shooter and biotic/tech combat on all difficulties perfectly viable. Any class can get through the game just fine. An Adept is not supposed to have to shoot on the hardest game variant mode that is in place to push the player's reaction time in a game featuring third person shooter combat? That's bull, what else is a marine supposed to do during his powers' cooldown in the middle of a gun-fight? Ignore the easy to use death dealing technology at his disposal? I think not. Are you telling me that in some crazy freak inter-dimensional fictional universes traveling accident that a high fantasy wizard wouldn't pick up some of these easy to use quick death dealing guns that eveyone he faces would be carrying? Why because of some oath to the circle of mages or some crap that weapons can never be touched? This ain't Middle Earth anymore Gandalf, grab some high-tech weapons and armor to compliment your magic or die the instant the first enemy sniper sees you before you can even think to say "hocus pocus".

Kronner wrote...

Simbacca wrote...

Git ur gunz outta me aaRPeeGee!!!

....

That (very long) post pretty much sums it up.

I thought so but I always welcome healthy debate. Thank you for reading it

[s]Sorry though for the extra 50 seconds it took to read it compared to standard posts though.[/sarcasm]

Seriously though, why do people complain about long posts during a healthy debate on a web forum? Trust me, it takes far longer for someone to come up with and type that much than the extra dozen seconds it takes to read it. I know not many complained directly, but it is obvious that most just skipped over it entirely upon seeing it's length. People will read pages and pages of a thread but won't read a post that takes a minute simply cause most posts take 10 seconds to read. It's silly, but it's everywhere on the net.

Modifié par Simbacca, 19 août 2010 - 04:21 .

[termokanden]

People don't read pages and pages of thread. I've got the feeling they ignore most posts entirely. Definitely anything that takes a while to read and doesn't directly quote their own posts.



Welcome to the wonderful world of human communication. Like you said it's not exclusive to this forum. It's not even exclusive to the Internet.

[The Spamming Troll]

what the flip is going on right now!



i come back thinking someone was going to post some crap about me just because of my name and people have lost their mind. i only got past the last two comments and im bid you farewell.



vanguards rule.

[termokanden]

Do you want people to say something about your name?

[tonnactus]

sinosleep wrote...


I don't think you understand. Them not dying HELPS my point. Warp explosions usually only kill outright enemies who are already defensless. Those enemies that still have their defenses up and are hit by a warp explosion usually still have life left over.

Right.Except krogans,what they have left over is not worth the shockwave cooldown,that bounces them just away rather
then really damaging them. I want to use biotics on enemies when they are still dangerous,like it works with singularity.
But only singularity 80 percent of the time got boring.

[tonnactus]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

What? At which poison level? I never see singularity alone kill enemies,just take down defenses.

Have a look then: Asari Shepard and the Ardat-Yakshi; too bad this stuff cannot be used like medkits though it would spoil much of the fun playing Adept.

It seems like they got killed by explosive canisters rather then by the singularity. But biotic potions would be a nice addition,i agree.

[tonnactus]

jbblue05 wrote...

I mean Biotics been around for a while I;m sure someone has created Shields and armor that protect against biotics

And you think groups like bloodpack could buy that expensive technology?

It was stated that armor is common in the terminus systems because systems with kinetic shields are to expensive...
Its just for the game play.Cerberus wouldnt spend billions on gillian(who killed a lot of shielded cerberus soldiers)
if they are counterparts for that are so cheap that even merc groups like bloddpack could by it.

[Kronner]

Simbacca wrote...

I thought so but I always welcome healthy debate. Thank you for reading it

[s]Sorry though for the extra 50 seconds it took to read it compared to standard posts though.[/sarcasm]

Seriously though, why do people complain about long posts during a healthy debate on a web forum? Trust me, it takes far longer for someone to come up with and type that much than the extra dozen seconds it takes to read
it. I know not many complained directly, but it is obvious that most just skipped over it entirely upon seeing it's length. People will read pages and pages of a thread but won't read a post that takes a minute
simply cause most posts take 10 seconds to read. It's silly, but it's everywhere on the net.

haha I enjoy long posts (as long as it's not some BS), I just put it there (the very long post note) because I did not want to quote the whole post - would take too much unnecessary space, especially since the original post is on the same page.

tonnactus wrote...

And you think groups like bloodpack could buy that expensive technology?

It was stated that armor is common in the terminus systems because systems with kinetic shields are to expensive...
Its just for the game play.Cerberus wouldnt spend billions on gillian(who killed a lot of shielded cerberus soldiers)
if they are counterparts for that are so cheap that even merc groups like bloddpack could by it.

A lot? One Commando team is a lot? If biotics worked like in the books, I doubt anyone would enjoy it. One biotic power - minimum of a minute or so wait. No thank you. There is nothing wrong with Adept, some people just do not like how it plays on Insanity, which is just funny considering there are 4 other difficulty settings. You can also edit .ini file so biotics work right away, I am pretty sure it will feel too easy so you are not gonna play that for long.

Modifié par Kronner, 19 août 2010 - 01:10 .

[tonnactus]

Kronner wrote...



A lot? One Commando team is a lot?

One was thrown. On the other she lifted up a power shovel and dropped it on him.And yes,for a kid such potential is enormous.

You can also edit .ini file so biotics work right away, I am pretty sure it will feel too easy so you are not gonna play that for long.

Thats not what i want.Resistences should stay,but not 100 percent ones.I made that clear enough.Why christina norman
even want to make a biotic buff and wanted to make her insanity playthrough as one after that if this is all perfectly fine?( if this isnt public relation bull**** of course)

Modifié par tonnactus, 19 août 2010 - 01:16 .

[Kronner]

tonnactus wrote...

One was thrown. On the other she lifted up a power shovel and dropped it on him.And yes,for a kid such potential is enormous.

Yes, she had potential. But the point is, any biotic in the books has to wait for quite long before (s)he can use biotics again. I would not enjoy game if I had to wait 60 or more seconds before I could use the power again. Gameplay is more important than lore, and that is a good thing.

tonnactus wrote...Thats not what i want.Resistences should stay,but not 100 percent ones.I made that clear enough.Why christina norman even want to make a biotic buff and wanted to make her insanity playthrough as one after that if this is all perfectly fine?( if this isnt public relation bull**** of course)

Yes, small tweaks would be good - but I seriously doubt we will see major gameplay changes. Since she mentioned Adepts only chances are it involves Singularity.

Modifié par Kronner, 19 août 2010 - 01:21 .

[tonnactus]

Kronner wrote...


Yes, small tweaks would be good - but I seriously doubt we will see major gameplay changes. Since she mentioned Adepts only chances are it involves Singularity.

This wouldnt make any sense because singularity now work just fine except some dumb exceptions.(what i mentioned)
And improvements only regarding adepts? I dont think so.Maybee they also see that sentinels and vanguards barely ever used throw,shockwave and lift.

[Kronner]

tonnactus wrote...

Kronner wrote...


Yes, small tweaks would be good - but I seriously doubt we will see major gameplay changes. Since she mentioned Adepts only chances are it involves Singularity.

This wouldnt make any sense because singularity now work just fine except some dumb exceptions.(what i mentioned)
And improvements only regarding adepts? I dont think so.Maybee they also see that sentinels and vanguards barely ever used throw,shockwave and lift.

Well we can only guess, though I think she would have said "biotics" not just Adept buff. Anyways, we shall see soon. As for not using some powers on Insanity, it is like that in every RPG. Some skills always have superior counterpart. When I played DAO I did not use all skills on Nightmare either.

[sinosleep]

tonnactus wrote...

Right.Except krogans,what they have left over is not worth the shockwave cooldown,that bounces them just away rather
then really damaging them. I want to use biotics on enemies when they are still dangerous,like it works with singularity.
But only singularity 80 percent of the time got boring.

I thought I edited out shockwave, looks like I only edited out in one sentence and left it in on another. I can't front, shockwave is pretty damned worthless on insanity. Since the damage doesn't kill things even if they completely defenseless the insane knock back is actually kind of a bad thing since it can send enemies flying to places where you can't see them only for them to get up and shoot you later. I've actually **** talked shockwave a fair amount in the comments section of some of my youtube videos since on insanity there had best be a ledge near by or throw is an infinitely superior move since it tends to actually kill people on health with a shorter cool down.

Modifié par sinosleep, 19 août 2010 - 02:42 .

[FlyinElk212]

I've just started playing my Adept-Insanity-Recruit Tali/Legion first playthrough, and I've gotta say it's really exciting--as great a runthrough as my first time.

Adept, when properly specced, is the best class in the game. Period. Warp is a godsend, and Singularity, with its insanely fast recharge time, makes sure the enemies WILL DIE once their armor is gone.

The best complimentary move to the Adept is something that works well against Shields and Drones--therefore, the handsdown winner is Energy Drain (basically Overload with a Shield Boost Bonus). Give your Adept that, and a fantastic long range gun after the Collector ship (my personal favorite is the Viper Sniper Rifle), and you're practically unstoppable.

[The Spamming Troll]

tonnactus wrote...

Kronner wrote...


Yes, small tweaks would be good - but I seriously doubt we will see major gameplay changes. Since she mentioned Adepts only chances are it involves Singularity.

This wouldnt make any sense because singularity now work just fine except some dumb exceptions.(what i mentioned)
And improvements only regarding adepts? I dont think so.Maybee they also see that sentinels and vanguards barely ever used throw,shockwave and lift.

i think there definately needs to be gameplay changes. ME2 has excelent gameplay dont get me wrong but theres perfect examples of reasons for change. abilities becoming useless on higher difficulties. i dont see how more people arent dissapointed with biowares method of "gimping" their own game. im playing mass effect to throw people into the air or lighting groups of enemies on fire, and playing on higher difficulties is just what i do. those higher difficulties means im not playing the ME that i want to play. the one i got accused to in ME1. the bottom line is, it just sucks for me.

the thing is i have alot of faith in bioware. i played ME1 30+ times, then tried kotor, dragon age, and obviously ME2 and theres not a reason to be dissapointed with any of those games if your looking for lots biowareawesomness. the changes to ME2 were as epic as my experience with ME1.

some easy changes would be figuring a better way to handle ability useage and level difficulties. id also like to see less weapon focussed action and more ability focues gameplay. dont get me wrong i love the shooting aspect of ME2, but im not to thrilled about the ability elements. even leveling up is a bore. i play through a few levels before i even noticed im leveled up. id love a return to the way XP was handled in ME1. that little ringing noise you hear on every level up gives me an eargasm. anyways, abilites should be handled a bit better in ME3. the ME universe has combat that revolves around abilities, so i dont know why bioware focused so much on gunplay. id like to get more abilities as DLC, rather then weapons. actually  thats an awesome idea. the game should be much more focused on abilities rather then guns. thats why were all playing ME becasue we aregod damned jedis!

it seems like alot of easy fixes for bioware and i really havent been let down by them. if anything ill probably be ****ting my pants after im done playing ME3.

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

Please show video of your adept playing insanity and not firing a shot in Tali's Loyalty mission. Thanks, because I don't think it can be done in many areas.

I'll try, can be done I think. Geth are easy, you only need Energy Drain. As long as Geth are still standing, you cannot die. I'll assume melee attacks are still permitted. Gonna give it a go this weekend, if I can pull it of - I'll post a vid.

Got that vidoe yet? So far no one who says adepts don't have to shoot on insanity has ever pulled that off. Oh, it is prefered that you don't use energy drain because that is a bonus power and a tech power to boot. Just use the adept powers so we can stick to adepts and their powers in the discussion.

[mcsupersport]

I did a full Hardcore run without shooting, except for 2 places. One was in Overlord where a blockage wouldn't clear without a shot from a pistol, and the second was in Zaeed's mission, the fuel tanks wouldn't blow without being shot. Other than those two spots no shooting at all. I know Hardcore isn't Insanity, but it is very close. And this was no shooting though entire game run. As for not using Energy Drain?? Why the heck not, that is taking a viable and useful base part out of the game, the bonus power is there for a reason. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it isn't something that shouldn't be used. Oh, I forget, that "ISN'T CANNON.."

[sinosleep]

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

Got that vidoe yet? So far no one who says adepts don't have to shoot on insanity has ever pulled that off. Oh, it is prefered that you don't use energy drain because that is a bonus power and a tech power to boot. Just use the adept powers so we can stick to adepts and their powers in the discussion.

Squad powers are allowed correct? I think I've made it clear that I think it's a silly case to make in the first place, but I'm sure I can do it. I'm currently in North Carolina visiting my brother but I drive home on Sunday. I'll fraps it just to do it, though the damned file is going to be huge since I'm sure the going will be slow.

Modifié par sinosleep, 22 août 2010 - 04:39 .

[Bozorgmehr]

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

Bozorgmehr wrote...

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

Please show video of your adept playing insanity and not firing a shot in Tali's Loyalty mission. Thanks, because I don't think it can be done in many areas.

I'll try, can be done I think. Geth are easy, you only need Energy Drain. As long as Geth are still standing, you cannot die. I'll assume melee attacks are still permitted. Gonna give it a go this weekend, if I can pull it of - I'll post a vid.

Got that vidoe yet? So far no one who says adepts don't have to shoot on insanity has ever pulled that off.

Wrong: http://social.biowar...8/index/1319268, though squadies do shoot guns.

Oh, it is prefered that you don't use energy drain because that is a bonus power and a tech power to boot. Just use the adept powers so we can stick to adepts and their powers in the discussion.

WTF? No bonus powers? Can I bring squadies, use melee?

[NICKjnp]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

Bozorgmehr wrote...

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

Please show video of your adept playing insanity and not firing a shot in Tali's Loyalty mission. Thanks, because I don't think it can be done in many areas.

I'll try, can be done I think. Geth are easy, you only need Energy Drain. As long as Geth are still standing, you cannot die. I'll assume melee attacks are still permitted. Gonna give it a go this weekend, if I can pull it of - I'll post a vid.

Got that vidoe yet? So far no one who says adepts don't have to shoot on insanity has ever pulled that off.

Wrong: http://social.biowar...8/index/1319268, though squadies do shoot guns.

Oh, it is prefered that you don't use energy drain because that is a bonus power and a tech power to boot. Just use the adept powers so we can stick to adepts and their powers in the discussion.

WTF? No bonus powers? Can I bring squadies, use melee?

No you can't... and you can't use the bonus weapon.  All you can use is the predator (the gun you got in the first level). 

[Kronner]

Still, what is the point? Certainly, such video can be made, but it will be slow, boring and ineffective. Adepts have weapons for a reason and on at least 3 out of 5 difficulty settings you do not have to shoot at all and still be very effective.

[NICKjnp]

Kronner wrote...

Still, what is the point? Certainly, such video can be made, but it will be slow, boring and ineffective. Adepts have weapons for a reason and on at least 3 out of 5 difficulty settings you do not have to shoot at all and still be very effective.

I was going for a joke... I don't see the need to not use squadies or weapons.  Hell... if you have an ammo power as a bonus power it means you should be required to use a weapon.

Modifié par NICKjnp, 22 août 2010 - 06:07 .