49 réponses à ce sujet

[fegede]

I've played many hours of this wonderful game with many different classes and on every class I've played (or almost), the special weapon training option was really hard and game defining. Sometimes, it totally changes the way you play (like picking shotgun with an infiltrator) or just helps round out weaknesses (like viper with a vanguard). No matter wich class, the choice is always interesting and I would like to see the opinions of all of you who like to discuss strategies and builds.

I have made up 6 polls, one for each class, with the trainings and specific guns.
This poll includes wepons from DLC's, including the firepower pack
You can vote for optimal choice or most fun, and further discussion is more than welcome.

hope you enjoy !

Adept

Engineer

Infiltrator

Sentinel

Soldier

Vanguard



Edit:  I just realized there is a mistake in the polls.... under AR choices, Collector Particle Beam actually stands for the Collector Assault Rifle. I don't have the special edidtion, so i don't see that gun often.


Results  updated oct 09

Infiltrator: Widow wins this one by a large margin. more than 3 infiltrators out of 4 take it, with good reasons. GPS comes in second and allows for a pretty different gameplay. It is really woth trying imo.
Aggressive infiltrator videos by OniGagnon and others here

Vanguard: Claymore is the favorite gun choice of vanguards, but only 2 vanguards out of 5 take it. People that use a diffferent shotgun picked the mattock or viper to add a long range option.

Adept: The Mattock is the most picked gun with 37%. Shotguns have had many votes recently towards the GPS. Vindicator and viper are the most picked wepons outside of the firepower pack. So clearly people prefer long range DPS over closing in with a shotgun.

Sentinel : Mattock wins, followed by GPS. 46 votes went to ARs and 36 to shotguns. ARs are better for caster sentinels and shotguns for assault sentinels. Out of the firepower pack, Viper, Eviscerator, or geth pulse rifle are good options.

Engineer: Like sentinel, Mattock wins, followed by GPS. 43 votes went to ARs and 25 to shotguns. Out of firepower pack, Viper, vindicator or eviscerator are good options depending on your playstyle.
Shotgun engineers are great

Soldier : revenant is slightly ahead of the Widow. They share 94% of the total votes.


Firepower pack guns have 60% of the caster classes' votes (sentinel, adept and engineer)
Caster classes took AR training 53% of the time and shotguns 32% of the time
Highest score of scimitar is 4% on sentinels...
Nobody ever took the katana or the incisor. edit: 1 person did pick the incisor !
Almost no votes for the mantis

Modifié par fegede, 09 octobre 2010 - 02:57 .

[Jade Elf]

Voted.

[Kronner]

Voted too!
Adept - shotguns (GSB)
Engineer - shotguns (Evi)
Infiltrator - Widow
Sentinel - shotguns (Evi)
Soldier - have all three different Soldiers, like the Revenant/Viper combo best.
Vanguard - Claymore

Looking forward to the results!

Modifié par Kronner, 14 août 2010 - 09:07 .

[fegede]

Hmm do I have to vote to see the results ? kinda sad since I just started a shotgun infiltrator (no shotgun yet...) and I haven't got my only soldier up to the collector ship ( so no revenant at all in any playtroughs...)



Don't get me wrong, I've finished an insanity game with every class except the soldier, but sometimes I felt I could have picked another gun and have more fun with it (shotgun infiltrator comes to mind)

[Bozorgmehr]

You disappoint me a bit with the Adept - prefer Claymore  (isn't on your list; but you can't get it without modding).

Here's what I've voted for:

Adept - GPS
Engineer - GPS
Infiltrator - Evi
Sentinel - Evi
Soldier - Revenant (still using Evi/GPS 90% of the time)
Vanguard - Claymore

Modifié par Bozorgmehr, 15 août 2010 - 01:51 .

[OniGanon]

Adept - GPS

Engineer - Mattock

Infiltrator - GPS

Sentinel - Mattock

Soldier - Widow

Vanguard - Viper



*scratches head* At least... I think that's what I voted for.

[fegede]

Right now, the firepower pack gun are getting the most love from every class that doesn't have access to claymore, widow or revenant. Mattock is even on par with the claymore for the vanguard (!), with more votes than the viper who comes close in third.



Infiltrator choice seems the easiest, and although I did try messing with the GPS and Evi with my infiltrator and had some fun doing so, the widow felt even more overpowered after that and got my vote

[Kaiser Shepard]

Am I really the only Vanguard that still goes Avenger?

Then again, I never really used the Eviscerator or Reave either. Guess I'm special like that.

Modifié par Kaiser Shepard, 15 août 2010 - 09:20 .

[fegede]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

You disappoint me a bit with the Adept - prefer Claymore  (isn't on your list; but you can't get it without modding).

I'm playing on the xbox, so no modding... and I tought it would be better for the poll as I think most of the players play the ''vanilla'' game, with squadmates, no modded guns and modded specs.

With modding, I would find it totally awesome to put the claymore on my sentinel and infiltrator and play solo NG+ with them (tech armor and claymore would make me feel like the son of chuck norris raised and taught to fight by rambo)

I still have 1 or 2 missions to do before I can try the revenant, but all my other votes are made and they go like this:

Adept - AR (mattock) for stripping and bombing. With jack's warp ammo and heavy barrier, it rapes collectors...
Engineer - shotguns (GPS) w\\ flashbang
Infiltrator - Widow
Sentinel - shotguns (Scimitar)
Vanguard - Claymore

[Bozorgmehr]

fegede wrote...

I'm playing on the xbox, so no modding... and I tought it would be better for the poll as I think most of the players play the ''vanilla'' game, with squadmates, no modded guns and modded specs.

With modding, I would find it totally awesome to put the claymore on my sentinel and infiltrator and play solo NG+ with them (tech armor and claymore would make me feel like the son of chuck norris raised and taught to fight by rambo)

I still have 1 or 2 missions to do before I can try the revenant, but all my other votes are made and they go like this:

Adept - AR (mattock) for stripping and bombing. With jack's warp ammo and heavy barrier, it rapes collectors...
Engineer - shotguns (GPS) w\\\\ flashbang
Infiltrator - Widow
Sentinel - shotguns (Scimitar)
Vanguard - Claymore

You can mod the 360 - play on pc myself, so dunno what you can do, but it's worth a try. I thinks its a bad thing certain weapons are not available to certain classes. I would've prefered a system to chose your own weapons layout. Fortunately you can mod the pc saves easily to get all guns. Claymore Adept rocks, I would gladly trade HW and HP for SG on the Adept, making it possible to get Claymore on Collector ship.

Haven't tried the Claymore on Sentinel yet, but should be fun too

[Cypher0020]

Great polls! I ran a vanguard with a claymore and totally loved it... started an Adept run, and I want to take the AR, and def wanna try the Widow with my Infiltrator until I can get the firepack dlc

[fegede]

hmmm, my soldier is taking me into a weird dilemna. I've gone past horizon and messed around with the different special weapons, including trying the revenant for 2-3 missions (with accuracy upgrade) and right now, the most powerful weapon set for me is the viper \\\\ mattock \\\\ GPS ....

After some testing, I found that I am killing faster with the viper because AR = AT LEAST one kill, whereas with widow AR = AT MOST one kill because with viper you can empty the rest of the clip AFTER your AR to really mop the place quickly.... and because the soldier has so many nice guns to use, ammo isn't a problem. On top of that, assisted aim on the xbox really makes sniping with the widow a pain... having a crosshair that moves on its own trying to target the wrong enemy at all times makes me want to throw my controller away and pick up gears of war to line up headshots.

Claymore vs GPS also isn't that easy of a choice. A charged AR'd GPS shot totally destroys shields and barriers of big dudes (praetorians, geth primes\\\\destroyers, harbinger) at MID RANGE, wich sets up the perfect opportunity to empty clips of mattock \\\\ viper in their heads to finish them off safely. And up close, charged GPS = more damage than claymore... mid range, uncharged GPS with disruptor really messes with shields and makes sweeping up with inferno rounds and mattock\\\\viper a joke. The cooldown of AR is perfect to charge up shots if you have high cover. The only problem is the small ammo capacity. Still love the claymore though. It is a beast and has more fully powered shots and DPS (espcially with the reload trick) than the GPS...

Revenant vs Mattock really is the hard part. I love both riffles for different purposes. Mattock in heightened AR owns anything at an incredible pace. When you mash the trigger, things die FAST, even at mid\\\\long range, no matter who is there. Revenant also owns anything, but more at close\\\\mid range (same range I use the GPS so big overlap). The (almost) unlimited ammo capacity also helps you feel trigger happy with your other guns. Maybe I haven't gotten used to it yet, but I have some problems while wielding the revenant, 1. I almost never use my shotguns, and that makes me sad, because I love shotguning someones face.  2. It really gives me that annoying habbit of charging up close to destroy dudes, and often gets me in a hairy situation where I die stupidly after charging and killing a guy or two up close while getting shot from afar.  3. It makes me want to take hardened AR and sacrifice damage on my viper and GPS to get it. I haven't yet tried scimitar on hardened AR, but I don't think it will rock that much more than the GPS.

When mixing it all together, with viper\\\\mattock\\\\GPS, there is a big overlap in effective range wich makes mid-range the closest any enemy will ever get to you, unless YOU decide to blast their face with an up-close shotgun frenzy. They also all have the same problem, ammo capacity. While this could be a problem (ie. shoot some and find yourself low or empty on every gun), in my case it is not. Starting at long\\\\mid range, I mash the trigger with the viper. After a couple of headshots related deaths, the enemies are getting a little closer, I switch for mattock and do exactly the same thing, but faster, with even more ammo wasting.... And even if one of these guns go out of ammo, you switch back to the other one and don't even need to change your position or strategy. If by some miracle you manage to not end a fight while emptying those two crazy guns, the GPS works just fine from the same exact mid-range spot, or you can go up close and personal to blast faces with your shotgun and pick up ammo in the same effortless motion. All that with the same AR (heightened). Their small ammo capacity encourages you to switch guns, love them all, and make your headshots and AR count.

I am Commander Shepard, and this is my favorite way to play soldier in the terminus systems !

Seriously, mid range is what gets me the kills the fastest, AND the safest. It's not even a choice between safe and fast... You're just a mid-range ninja 
For tight spots where I am in trouble in close range or surrounded, mid range is at worst one AR and one enemy away, and all these guns (viper included) work well enough at close range.

For now, widow is a big NO for my soldier, revenant and claymore are maybe's. Revenant being slightly ahead, it got the poll vote.

Modifié par fegede, 21 août 2010 - 08:46 .

[JaegerBane]

fegede wrote...
After some testing, I found that I am killing faster with the viper because AR = AT LEAST one kill, whereas with widow AR = AT MOST one kill because with viper you can empty the rest of the clip AFTER your AR to really mop the place quickly.... and because the soldier has so many nice guns to use, ammo isn't a problem.

It's a question of gambling. With the Widow that kill per AR is virtually certain - with the Viper, it's a question of luck, as you're depending on most of your shots hitting no matter how much fire you're under or cover is in the way.

The Widow is generally a better weapon against mooks than the Viper, as it's massive spike damage means that individual kills require far less time. On bosses you may see better performance from the Viper, but of course, that is itself an open question as it depends on how long you can take fire for while shooting off a volley. Again, this is an irrelevant question for the Widow as you spend the same amount of time put of cover.

I can't stress this enough - Widow and Viper are two weapons that each cater for diametrically opposite sniping styles. It is very much a question of what style you prefer.

The only thing of note is that you can closely approximate the Viper's performance with the Mattock and therefore come close to getting the best of both worlds. The Revenant can approximate the performance of a shotty, but, well... you have a shotty no matter what, so you're not gaining much there.

On top of that, assisted aim on the xbox really makes sniping with the widow a pain... having a crosshair that moves on its own trying to target the wrong enemy at all times makes me want to throw my controller away and pick up gears of war to line up headshots.

Gah...

[JaegerBane]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Am I really the only Vanguard that still goes Avenger?

I would hope so.

[fegede]

JaegerBane wrote...

I can't stress this enough - Widow and Viper are two weapons that each
cater for diametrically opposite sniping styles. It is very much a
question of what style you prefer.

Totally agree, and I don't want to start another endless sniper war. I love the feel of the widow; its sound and damage is wonderful. On the other hand, it took me a while to learn to love the viper...

JaegerBane wrote...

fegede wrote...
After some testing, I found that I am killing faster with the viper because AR = AT LEAST one kill, whereas with widow AR = AT MOST one kill because with viper you can empty the rest of the clip AFTER your AR to really mop the place quickly.... and because the soldier has so many nice guns to use, ammo isn't a problem.

It's a question of gambling. With the Widow that kill per AR is virtually certain - with the Viper, it's a question of luck, as you're depending on most of your shots hitting no matter how much fire you're under or cover is in the way.

(...)

The Widow is generally a better weapon against mooks than the Viper, as
it's massive spike damage means that individual kills require far less
time.

Totally disagree. Miss your shot with widow? One wasted AR without any damage and one wasted bullet out of 13. Miss the headshot ? also often means no kill and having to patch up with plan B.

Miss ONE OF your shotS with the viper ? waste a bullet or two (out of 60) after AR and the guy is still dead. No need for any plan B.

Now let's say you do an AoE skill on two or three close mooks and scope in: Viper kills them all in one standing, widow overkills at most one mook.

That was more my point with the at least\\at most part. Mix that up with the incredibly annoying auto-aim on the xbox and the widow loses so much killing speed. Only advantage of the widow is, as you said, spending less time out of cover to shoot.

JaegerBane wrote...
 On bosses you may see better performance from the Viper, but of
course, that is itself an open question as it depends on how long you
can take fire for while shooting off a volley.

If only the boss remains, incoming fire from sniper range is not that big of a threat, except for ymirs

JaegerBane wrote...
The only thing of note is that you can closely approximate the Viper's
performance with the Mattock and therefore come close to getting the
best of both worlds. The Revenant can approximate the performance of a shotty, but, well...
you have a shotty no matter what, so you're not gaining much there.

Having the mattock and viper really encourages you to shoot like there's no tommorow, hell, it's like having a semi-auto sniper with 140 bullets. Maybe not the best of two worlds, but makes my sniper spirit happyB). It's like giving rambo a semi-auto sniper and unlimited bullets. I also like mattock\\widow, but you have to watch your bullet count, stress your headshots and sometimes use your second choice weapon because one of the two ran out of bullets.

[numotsbane]

Good work with this, I was working on a caster-class only definitive edition for weapons but hey you beat me to it. as it is, I'd maybe take a look at some BBcode guides if you want to make the OP flashier.

I think the new weapons have really thrown out the polls, as they are so much better than the alternatives. snipers really seem to suffer now as a bonus weapon.

[sinosleep]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Am I really the only Vanguard that still goes Avenger?

Then again, I never really used the Eviscerator or Reave either. Guess I'm special like that.

When was it ever the standard? 

[Mr_Raider]

what's a mook?

[Simbacca]

I voted:

Adept - GPS
Engineer - Mattock
Infiltrator - GPS
Sentinel - GPS
Soldier - Widow
Vanguard - Viper

Modifié par Simbacca, 23 août 2010 - 02:17 .

[SmokeyNinjas]

My votes:

Adept - Mattock
Engineer - Mattock
Infiltrator - GPS
Sentinel - GPS
Soldier - Claymore (Although i dont use it anymore as i like GPS, Mattock & Viper Setup best)
Vanguard - Mattock

Modifié par SmokeyNinjas, 23 août 2010 - 03:12 .

[fegede]

Mr_Raider wrote...

what's a mook?

Just your standard easy to kill baddie. Collectors, eclipse mercs, vorchas, geth troppers and the likes.

Numotsbane wrote...

Good work with this, I was working on a caster-class only definitive edition for weapons but hey you beat me to it. as it is, I'd maybe take a look at some BBcode guides if you want to make the OP flashier.



I think the new weapons have really thrown out the polls, as they are so much better than the alternatives. snipers really seem to suffer now as a bonus weapon.

I didn't really want to make it flashy, just functional. Turned out to be easier than I thought. Funny to see you had the same idea for casters.



Firepower weapons are indeed making a big difference for those who bought the DLC. Seeing the poll results, I think there are many more than I thought. To be honest, I had the idea only while downloading it myself and wondering which one of my builds I was going to mess up hehe. I ended up playing my first soldier, a new CQC infiltrator, NG+ adept and NG+ sentinel.... this game has almost TOO MUCH relay value.

[JaegerBane]

fegede wrote...
Totally disagree. Miss your shot with widow? One wasted AR without any damage and one wasted bullet out of 13. Miss the headshot ? also often means no kill and having to patch up with plan B.

Miss ONE OF your shotS with the viper ? waste a bullet or two (out of 60) after AR and the guy is still dead. No need for any plan B.

I'm not really sure what your point is here, fegede. Obviously if you miss the shot then the kill isn't going to happen, but that isn't really the point.

The point is that AR makes it *very* easy to score a headshot and it's damage boost together with whatever other boosts you have will often mean that if you land that headshot, that's it - the enemy is down and done in the time it took to pull the trigger.

In comparison, the Viper requires you to land a number of shots. Each shot hits your accuracy thanks to recoil, which reduces the chances of a headshot, and each shot you take from an enemy, in addition to damage you take, hits your accuracy too. Hence, it's not as straightforward as the Widow. Of course a missed shot on the Viper means little - but then, it has to, as under most practical situations you'd be lucky to land 2-3 headshots before the impact of recoil and damage taken throws your aim off. Check crucial's sniper comparison video to see what I mean.

Now let's say you do an AoE skill on two or three close mooks and scope in: Viper kills them all in one standing, widow overkills at most one mook.

This is an irrelevant comparison. We're comparing the pros and cons of the two sniper rifles here - trying to bring in AoE effects and whatnot clouds the actual stats. *Obviously* a weapon that trades damage for rate of fire is going to be better against many heavily damaged enemies - it doesn't change the fact that the weapon needed the enemies to be half dead before it could manage the single clip kills.

If only the boss remains, incoming fire from sniper range is not that big of a threat, except for ymirs

Incoming fire from bosses is always a threat, as they pack the heaviest firepower. Absorbing fire from things like gunships or Threshers or Praetorians while Viper'ing them isn't really something that can be legitimately described as 'not that big a threat' by anyone's standards. Particularly not when you can score the same damage as 4 viper shots with 1 widow shot in the time it takes you to press the fire key.

Having the mattock and viper really encourages you to shoot like there's no tommorow, hell, it's like having a semi-auto sniper with 140 bullets. Maybe not the best of two worlds, but makes my sniper spirit happyB). It's like giving rambo a semi-auto sniper and unlimited bullets. I also like mattock\\\\widow, but you have to watch your bullet count, stress your headshots and sometimes use your second choice weapon because one of the two ran out of bullets.

Unless you're a *horrible* shot, it's a rather tall claim to make saying that you have to 'watch your ammo' for a character wielding both a Mattock and a Widow. While it's true that ammo is a concern, compared to a Mattock/Viper combo, it's not that different - 60 shots on the Viper sounds like lots for a sniper rifle but you won't be getting even two-hit kills on anything above casual. The only weapons in the game the truly remove any concern about ammo are things like the Tempest, Locust or Rev.

To be honest, I can't really imagine what kind of situation a Mattock/Viper combo would really excel in. All it means is that you can spam-snipe for a bit longer on the proviso that you don't have a scope later on. The Widow/Mattock combo essentially allows you to indulge in both types of sniping when and wherever you wish.

[Comrade Bork]

Well, considering the Viper with Hardened Adrenaline Rush is ungodly, I don't ever see the point of picking the Widow on a soldier. But, I've always enjoyed suppressive fire-rate over one-shot kills. So I pick the Revenant, it is by far my favorite gun (if only it were slightly more accurate).

On Infiltrators, I always pick the Widow, it just works, plain and simple.

Adepts are iffy, I just pick what fancies me at the time. I usually pick the GPR or Viper.

Vanguards get the awesomeness that is the Claymore, I haven't played my Vanguard in a while, so I haven't really used the GPS.

I have been playing my first Sentinel, and have been experimenting on the ship. So far, I like the Mattock the best.

As for the Engineer, I don't know. I hated the class, and didn't bother to keep playing it.

[Alamar2078]

Soldier -- Widow ... Firepower pack made choosing the Revvy a "role play" choice instead of efficiency



Infiltrator -- Widow ... How could you not take the big mama for the sniper class??



Engineer -- SR training & go for Viper. I like to stay at range so the Viper works well. I can see lots of good use for an Evi or Geth Shotty though.



Vanguard -- I simply like the Claymore. Even without the reload trick it's still a blast.



Sentinel -- I don't do more than just goof around a little. Shotty training seem natural though.



Adept -- Once again I like to stay at range so I pick the Viper but boy there's a strong arguement for a nice shotty.

[fegede]

I just watched the target elimination and the shield stripping videos, but sniping with AR is very different than with Tactical Cloak. With an infiltrator, I use widow every time because there is a much better synergy with tactical cloak imo. (still those tests are very helpfull and nice to watch and many points apply here)

We can see a couple of point we brought up:
on the target elimination, boss killing speed is better with viper, even if a shot was missed and the boss took cover. Incoming fire from the boss was not a problem, because he was stunned by the viper shots or stupidly targeting someone else. Damage taken from the total fight also was the same, although widow should have the edge for less time out of cover.

cruz1ale  had very good aim with the widow and never missed a headshot, even with no slowdown... credits to him ! on the viper, one merc took 12 viper shots to take down.... on AR, trust me, this does not happen. Lining up your 2-3 first headshots is way easier with some kind of slowdown and 3 headshots on heightened AR gives you a kill on basic troopers. With AR, 5-7 shots kills feels like a waste
on the shield stripping video, viper was faster and damage taken was similar.

The two snipers have such a different feeling to them that it alls comes down to wich goes better with your playstyle. I just find that the viper has an edge on versatility, with no big sacrifice (except for the one shot\\one kill happinness).

One of the nicest viper gameplay that I saw is actually AverageGatsby's Claymore Soldier video here.
Starting at 3:00, you see him steadily killing collectors in 3-4 hits, taking down harbinger in 7 seconds without taking damage with only the viper and taking on the praetorian (even though he doesn't use exclusively the viper)

JaegerBane wrote...
To be honest, I can't really imagine what kind of situation a
Mattock/Viper combo would really excel in. All it means is that you can
spam-snipe for a bit longer on the proviso that you don't have a scope
later on

Spam sniping is fun imho It is one of the best loadouts to do so. With widow, I always fell a little short if i tried to spam. Mattock\\viper urges you to spam.
I kinda agree with you that it doesn't really ''shine'' anywhere, but the strenght of the combo is that it kicks ass steadily everywhere. And you can even be relaxed about it. Strong survivability, versatility (shield stripping, finishing enemies, killing mercs&bosses) and ammo efficiency are the strong points of the loadout.

JaegerBane wrote...
60 shots on the Viper sounds like lots for a sniper rifle but you won't be getting even two-hit kills on anything above casual.

don't worry about casual, i'm talking about insanity;)