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[MKDAWUSS]

Morwen Eledhwen wrote...

^ Ahh, mods. Unfortunately I play on the PS3 so I'm stuck with Kill Cauthrien = be sad but get Summer Sword; Don't kill Cauthrien = clear conscience but no neat toy for Sten.

At Howe's estate, target Cauthrien, KO her, loot the summer sword, and let yourself get KOd by one of the mercs. No mods, you get the Summer Sword, and Cauthrien lives

I did it on my last playthrough. I as a warrior had to use Power of Blood to make my health plummet fast enough though.

Modifié par MKDAWUSS, 25 septembre 2010 - 03:40 .

[phaonica]

I was just watching the movie "A Few Good Men" again today (the antagonist reminds me of Loghain) (but that's not the reason I was watching it again, I was testing out features on my television, honest!) and I discovered that the movie's protagonist's middle name is Alistair. Coincidence?

Modifié par phaonica, 25 septembre 2010 - 05:51 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

There is also a Bioware dev in ME2 who is called Alistair Duncan.

[Giggles_Manically]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

There is also a Bioware dev in ME2 who is called Alistair Duncan.

I watched the credits and went "WHAT THE DUECE?"
THen I looked it up and there was one.

[CalJones]

Alastair Duncan's an actor.

He was used in ME & ME2 (he's our favourite turian councillor, as well as Nihlus).

[Morwen Eledhwen]

Ugh. . .My CE just executed Loghain and she feels really, really dirty about it. Unfortunately it was the only choice that made RP sense for this character, but she really wishes that she had an option to recruit Loghain into the Grey Wardens and not lose Alistair. And it's not like she's all "OMG, I can't have Alistair hate me!" but they do have a relationship and while they don't always see eye to eye and she's frequently cold to him, they do have a bond and she owes him a lot for helping her lose her "all human men are scum and must die" attitude. So he's like a family member, and she can't turn her back on her family. She WISHED that said family member hadn't decided to act like a jerk and abuse his power by demanding the death of a man who'd just lost everything he had and been publicly humiliated and stripped of his title --but she couldn't justify tossing Alistair aside for a man she didn't know (and who until recently had tried repeatedly to have her killed and had agreed to let her people be kidnapped and sold as slaves in order to finance his army). The ironic thing is that when I started this playthrough I had expected my CE to let Loghain be executed and to perform the execution herself out of revenge for her people and sheer bloody-mindedness, rather than let Alistair do the "honors" as my DC Warden did (be patient with me, I'm only a recent convert). In the end, my CE did in fact carry out the execution --but as a favor to Loghain, so that at least he would be killed by someone he respects, rather than the "puppet" who stood there giving my CE the "sweep the leg" nod from the sidelines.



In camp immediately afterwards, though, she told Alistair that she didn't think they had a future together after all. I have to decide what she's going to do about the final battle arrangements, but I think that she'll convince Alistair to do the DR with Morrigan so that she (my CE) doesn't die, then leave him at the gates and take her old dragon-slaying buddies Sten and Shale with her instead.

[Sarah1281]

The reason that I'm okay with 'tossing Alistair aside' even when my Wardens feel like he's a member of their family is because no one says anything about executing him until after the decision is made (and they never say it in my games as he always marries Anora) and I'm strongly of the opinion that just because someone is important to you that does NOT justify you killing someone you would not ordinarily kill just because they really want you to. I know Alistair not getting his way on this issue equals turning your back on him to him but to me it's Alistair doesn't get to kill the guy he blames for everything that's gone wrong in his life (however fair or unfair this may be) and so he acts in a completely unprofessional manner and throws a tantrum. Alistair's inability to handle reality shouldn't condemn Loghain to death.

[KnightofPhoenix]

It makes sense for the character Morwen. My second favorite Character, Dain Aeducan, executed Loghain because it made sense for him to. And he too did it personally because he respected Loghain enough to not let him die at the hands of a fool.

[Zjarcal]

That makes sense Morwen. I'm also at a dilemma right now. I think I'm going to make Alistair king.... ugh! And unhardened to boot! My current PC (a dalish) really doesn't trust Anora and feels the whole thing is Loghain's wicked plan to get inside info on her. However she doesn't get along with Alistair and believes he'd be a terrible king. But I think her mistrust of Anora will win... gah!



And she will execute Loghain due to the elven slavery issue. But she'll do it herself, no way she's letting Alistair do it.

[Morwen Eledhwen]

Sarah1281 wrote...

The reason that I'm okay with 'tossing Alistair aside' even when my Wardens feel like he's a member of their family is because no one says anything about executing him until after the decision is made (and they never say it in my games as he always marries Anora) and I'm strongly of the opinion that just because someone is important to you that does NOT justify you killing someone you would not ordinarily kill just because they really want you to. I know Alistair not getting his way on this issue equals turning your back on him to him but to me it's Alistair doesn't get to kill the guy he blames for everything that's gone wrong in his life (however fair or unfair this may be) and so he acts in a completely unprofessional manner and throws a tantrum. Alistair's inability to handle reality shouldn't condemn Loghain to death.

It's a good point, but consideration for Alistair wasn't the only reason Loghain was executed. My Warden did feel that Loghain needed to be punished for what he did. In her opinion, losing his daughter, losing the support of the Landsmeet and then getting completely owned in single combat with an elf half his age went a long way towards filling the bill, but she herself was still considering killing him because of the slave trade thing. She would have considered recruiting him as an option because he might die anyway, and even if he didn't he'd still be "punished" for having to join the "club" he hated so much; but when Alistair made it clear how he felt, that tipped the scales. Not by much, and she didn't enjoy it like she thought she would, but it made more sense than doing it the other way.

Incidentally, my dialogue options went more or less like this:

[Loghain gets smoked in duel with CE, yields.]

Warden's dialogue options are 1. "No, you're going to die for what you did."; 2. "I accept your surrender."

Warden: I accept your surrender.

Alistair: WHAT?!?!? You seriously don't mean to say that you're going to let him go after all we've been through, what this man did, blah de blah.

Riordan (running in): Wait! I have an alternative. Justice may be served, and this great warrior does not have to die.

Riordan explains.

Alistair: No way. Absolutely no way am I accepting this man as a Grey Warden. Need I remind you that this is the man who [list of offences, deserting the field, torture, slavery, trying to steal throne from Anora].

Warden's dialogue options are 1. No, Loghain has to die for his crimes; 2. I think that's a good solution.

After several long moments. . .

Warden: No, Loghain has to die for his crimes.

Anora: No!

Loghain: Anora, hush. . .[gives "daughter" speech, everyone knows it, too painful to be quoted here].

Loghain: Just make it quick. At least now I can die knowing that Ferelden is in your hands.

Warden's dialogue options are: 1. Very well; 2. Alistair, I think you should have this moment; 3. I can't. I can't do this.

Another long moment. . .

Warden: Very well.

Modifié par Morwen Eledhwen, 25 septembre 2010 - 07:41 .

[Zjarcal]

Question, if you select the "I can't do this" list on the last dialogue, what happens? Does Alistair go for the kill? Is Loghain spared?

Modifié par Zjarcal, 25 septembre 2010 - 07:27 .

[Sarah1281]

Zjarcal wrote...

Question, if you select the "I can't do this" list on the last dialogue, what happens? Does Alistair go for the kill? Is Loghain spared?

Alistiar is, imo, almost indecently eager to do it in your place.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Zjarcal wrote...

Question, if you select the "I can't do this" list on the last dialogue, what happens? Does Alistair go for the kill? Is Loghain spared?

Unfortunately Alistair jumps and does it.
I wish it could have led to one last choice.

If you say "I can't do it", Alistair suggests that he does it. Then you are given the choice to either let him, or not.

That's how I would have done it in my Aurora Cousland playthrough (and say no at the end).
But instead with what we have, I can't show how hesitant she was about all this.
 

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 25 septembre 2010 - 07:32 .

[Persephone]

WOW. I had that happen to me too. I felt so badly about accepting his surrender at first, only to change my mind a few moments later. (To Anora and especially Loghain, that's torture of the worst kind) 

And then the "Daughter speech"....the way he delivers that.........made me feel like SCUM....

I said "I can't. I can't do this!" and Alistair took the decision out of my hands and there was nothing I could do. I made Anora queen and broke up with Alistair afterwards. My Warden couldn't bear to be close to him anymore. She went for the US and left Alistair at the gates.

Modifié par Persephone, 25 septembre 2010 - 07:32 .

[Persephone]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

Question, if you select the "I can't do this" list on the last dialogue, what happens? Does Alistair go for the kill? Is Loghain spared?

Alistiar is, imo, almost indecently eager to do it in your place.

Quite.

[Morwen Eledhwen]

Persephone wrote...



WOW. I had that happen to me too. I felt so badly about accepting his surrender at first, only to change my mind a few moments later. (To Anora and especially Loghain, that's torture of the worst kind) 

And then the "Daughter speech"....the way he delivers that.........made me feel like SCUM....

I said "I can't. I can't do this!" and Alistair took the decision out of my hands and there was nothing I could do. I made Anora queen and broke up with Alistair afterwards. My Warden couldn't bear to be close to him anymore. She went for the US and left Alistair at the gates.

I made Anora queen too, but that was actually a tacit arrangement between the three of us already --Alistair was not hardened and was only too glad to let her have the throne. The only person I ticked off there was Eamon.


By the way, thanks for all the sympathy and understanding, everyone. I felt I had to come to this thread to confess my shame *hangs head, needs shower*

Modifié par Morwen Eledhwen, 25 septembre 2010 - 07:39 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

Question, if you select the "I can't do this" list on the last dialogue, what happens? Does Alistair go for the kill? Is Loghain spared?

Alistiar is, imo, almost indecently eager to do it in your place.

Very disturbingly so yes. I have a hard time believing that justice is what he was thinking about over all this bloodlust.

[Giggles_Manically]

Can someone put the youtube link up for that third choice then?

[Persephone]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

Question, if you select the "I can't do this" list on the last dialogue, what happens? Does Alistair go for the kill? Is Loghain spared?

Alistiar is, imo, almost indecently eager to do it in your place.

Very disturbingly so yes. I have a hard time believing that justice is what he was thinking about over all this bloodlust.

A: "I owe that to Duncan."
Me: You really didn't know Duncan at all, did you?

[Persephone]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Can someone put the youtube link up for that third choice then?

It's no different from letting Alistair do it. He just says "I will. I owe that to Duncan." and the cutscene begins.

[Sarah1281]

Seriously, watching that scene felt like:

Loghain: Just do it quickly, Warden. I will gladly die for my country. Please don't cry, Anora, it's for the best.

Warden: I...I just can't do it! This is so awful. Surely there must be some other option?

Alistair: Oh! Me! Let me do it! Please! I'm begging you! You won't even have to get me a Life Day present next year!

Warden: ...Is it too late to keep Loghain after all? I don't trust somebody this vengeance-obsessed. And no, I don't mean that ironically.

[Zjarcal]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Seriously, watching that scene felt like:
Loghain: Just do it quickly, Warden. I will gladly die for my country. Please don't cry, Anora, it's for the best.
Warden: I...I just can't do it! This is so awful. Surely there must be some other option?
Alistair: Oh! Me! Let me do it! Please! I'm begging you! You won't even have to get me a Life Day present next year!
Warden: ...Is it too late to keep Loghain after all? I don't trust somebody this vengeance-obsessed. And no, I don't mean that ironically.

Yeah, that seems very much like how I would feel if I chose the third option. Seriously, there should've been an option to back down from killing Loghain at that point.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Zjarcal wrote...
Seriously, there should've been an option to back down from killing Loghain at that point.

Yep, there should have been.
Heck, it could have been a cutscene with you blocking Alistair's attack.

I mean at that point, I can think of many reasons why someone who wanted to kill Logain would back out and not let Alistair do it. It could be because you felt sorry for Loghain but it can also be to protect Alistair from this obsession. That would have given the character a deeper relationship with Alistair and would give us space to rp someone who doesn't do what Alistair wants precisely because we care for him.

But eh, I never take the dialogue options literally anyways, so what my character says is in my head.

[Morwen Eledhwen]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

Question, if you select the "I can't do this" list on the last dialogue, what happens? Does Alistair go for the kill? Is Loghain spared?

Unfortunately Alistair jumps and does it.
I wish it could have led to one last choice.

If you say "I can't do it", Alistair suggests that he does it. Then you are given the choice to either let him, or not.

That's how I would have done it in my Aurora Cousland playthrough (and say no at the end).
But instead with what we have, I can't show how hesitant she was about all this.
 

This.

I hesitated a long time over the "I can't do this" choice but was very afraid (without knowing the exact consequences) that the decision would be taken out of my hands in some unsavory way, and I really felt that if Loghain had to be executed then I wanted to be the one to do it. I sure as hell didn't want to give Alistair or Eamon the pleasure.

[Persephone]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...
Seriously, there should've been an option to back down from killing Loghain at that point.

Yep, there should have been.
Heck, it could have been a cutscene with you blocking Alistair's attack.

I mean at that point, I can think of many reasons why someone who wanted to kill Logain would back out and not let Alistair do it. It could be because you felt sorry for Loghain but it can also be to protect Alistair from this obsession. That would have given the character a deeper relationship with Alistair and would give us space to rp someone who doesn't do what Alistair wants precisely because we care for him.

But eh, I never take the dialogue options literally anyways, so what my character says is in my head.

Agreed, KOP. Why did they leave that "option" (Because it makes no difference) in? The Warden decides not to do it. Alistair jumps in. And the Warden just stands aside and nods? The cutscene should have shown a much more torn Warden, at least.