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Why Teyrn Loghain is the deepest character in Dragon Age


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#3201
Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

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Persephone wrote...


There's a Mod that gives him a TST appearance (Complete with those icy blue eyes that will stare right into your soul...) , only older. Add that to that voice and.......WOW.......Alistair who?:wub:



I'm just happy with removing the raccoon eyes, though technically, they do fit, given the amount of stress and pressure he's experiencing. I think that scene, where he's sitting on the throne, like he's half asleep, half dead, and Howe brings him more news about the civil war, pretty much sums it up. The consequences of his actions, and realizing he played his cards in every wrong way possible, and thus, has brought about the opposite of what he wanted, has really wasted him.

Even in my first playthrough I couldn't help but feel bad for him, even if he made his own bed. At least he realized it.

Edit to add:

No, despite my unholy fondness and admiration for Loghain, Alistair still always my first.

Because I can't resist adorably dimwitted blonde bastards who do what they are told, when they are told...and beg to be told.:wub::wub::wub:

Modifié par Skadi_the_Evil_Elf, 28 septembre 2010 - 10:37 .


#3202
Guest_Hanz54321_*

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Villian was the wrong word. Antagonist is correct. My bad.



And Skadi is correct. Both Anakin and Loghain do not start making "morally questionable" decisions because they want power - they just see a bunch of idiots running the galaxy/country into the ground and they want to do whats best to fix it.



There's the sacrificing your partner for the greater good aspect: Anakin tries to kill Obi Wan, Loghain is forced to abandon Cailan when Cailan won't stay out of the battle.



There's the overprotecting your loved ones while you lose your mind aspect: Anakin does what he does to try to save Padme. He lies to her about his turn to the dark side to protect her, blaming the Jedi for mutiny. Eventually she confronts him about it and tries to reason with him. He tries to explain what "must be done", but she says she cannot go down that road and that he has turned evil. He ends up choking her out.



Similarly, Loghain shields Anora from the truth, claiming the Warden's mutinied. She confronts him and tries to reason with him about Cailan's plan to bring the Orlesians into the Darkspawn War. Loghain explains that the nobility must be brought into line first. She asks if he killed Cailan. When his answer reveals he left Cailan to die, she throws up her hands and walks out - clearly not on his side anymore. So he lets Howe lock her up to keep her out of the way until he can quash the rebellion.



And of course there's the realization of the monster he's become and redemption. That is obvious. To be fair Loghain actually is the bigger man here because he submits after combat, joins the Wardens, and admits he was in a hard situation, then kills the Archdemon. Vader's change of thinking really is a gut instinct spur of the moment kind of thing. My point is Loghain has time to think on it and could've changed his mind back to betraying the Warden if he had wanted to. Vader's turn of character was more forced.



I'll stop there because I'm tired of typing - but I've just seen sooo many similarities between Loghain's story and Darth Vader's. It's a great character.

#3203
Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

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Well Said, Hans. He really is tragic, but fascinatingly, and even empathically so.

#3204
Obadiah

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@Hanz54321
All very true. In addition, they both lost a final duel which would have been to the death if they had won. At least you get to hear what Loghain thought of his actions afterwards with some reflection; all we got from Vader was, "(cough) (cough) you were riiiiiiight."

I don't know if I would shy away from the word "villain" in either case. Are they not villains simply because they did what they did with the best of intentions and had the authority to operate the way they did?

Modifié par Obadiah, 29 septembre 2010 - 01:34 .


#3205
CalJones

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I suppose you could view him as such but he's not a villain in the way that Howe or Arl Eamon are. Posted Image

#3206
Zjarcal

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CalJones wrote...

I suppose you could view him as such but he's not a villain in the way that Howe or Arl Eamon are. Posted Image


I see what you did there... and I approve.

#3207
phaonica

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CalJones wrote...

I suppose you could view him as such but he's not a villain in the way that Howe or Arl Eamon are. Posted Image


Silly you.

I guess a "villain" to me is a character that I think as having "bad" intentions. Off the top of my head, I'm thinking Howe, the Baroness, Meghren...

#3208
Elhanan

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The reason I hold that Loghain is the best CRPG villain ever is that he is portrayed as a true believer; not some simplistic power hungry tyrant. Bann Teagan is simply incorrect in his accessment of motive, Howe is the one craving power, and falls from the heights with a large thud.

#3209
DragonRacer13

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phaonica wrote...

CalJones wrote...

I suppose you could view him as such but he's not a villain in the way that Howe or Arl Eamon are. Posted Image


Silly you.

I guess a "villain" to me is a character that I think as having "bad" intentions. Off the top of my head, I'm thinking Howe, the Baroness, Meghren...


I think of "villain" as the purely evil for the sake of being evil context. Loghain, to me, is more of an "anti-villain", which is still an antagonist of the story but can be viewed sympathetically. I direct all to this link for a better definition: tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AntiVillain

#3210
CalJones

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That sounds about right.

#3211
Giggles_Manically

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If someone was to act out Loghain in a movie who would you want to do it?

#3212
Persephone

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Giggles_Manically wrote...

If someone was to act out Loghain in a movie who would you want to do it?


Alan Rickman. :wub::wub::wub:

#3213
DragonRacer13

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Persephone wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

If someone was to act out Loghain in a movie who would you want to do it?


Alan Rickman. :wub::wub::wub:


I second.

#3214
Zjarcal

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He would be fitting indeed.

#3215
Morwen Eledhwen

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I love me some Alan Rickman, but he's simply too old to play any kind of active soldier, let alone a great warrior.

How about Ray Stevenson, who played epic badass Titus Pullo in HBO's Rome?

#3216
Persephone

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And yet more cut or lost Loghain dialogue:

www.youtube.com/watch

Leliana brings up Maric's name at Soldier's Peak, Loghain doesn't like the memories....:crying:

#3217
Monica21

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Giggles_Manically wrote...

If someone was to act out Loghain in a movie who would you want to do it?

ST is an actor. Just put a black wig on him. Then you've still got the voice. <3

#3218
Persephone

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Morwen Eledhwen wrote...

I love me some Alan Rickman, but he's simply too old to play any kind of active soldier, let alone a great warrior.

How about Ray Stevenson, who played epic badass Titus Pullo in HBO's Rome?


I dunno. Too rough around the edges and IMO he doesn't have the authority both Simon T.'s voice or Alan Rickman's appearance convey. I like Pullo though......LOTS.:wub:

#3219
Zjarcal

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Monica21 wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

If someone was to act out Loghain in a movie who would you want to do it?

ST is an actor. Just put a black wig on him. Then you've still got the voice. <3


Why didn't we think of this in the first place? :wizard:

#3220
Zjarcal

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Persephone wrote...

And yet more cut or lost Loghain dialogue:

www.youtube.com/watch

Leliana brings up Maric's name at Soldier's Peak, Loghain doesn't like the memories....:crying:


Why, WHY?!?

Damn you Bioware for changing your original plans.

#3221
Persephone

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Persephone wrote...

And yet more cut or lost Loghain dialogue:

www.youtube.com/watch

Leliana brings up Maric's name at Soldier's Peak, Loghain doesn't like the memories....:crying:


Responding to myself here BUT I have to ask: Why was THAT cut again?:?

#3222
Persephone

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Zjarcal wrote...

Persephone wrote...

And yet more cut or lost Loghain dialogue:

www.youtube.com/watch

Leliana brings up Maric's name at Soldier's Peak, Loghain doesn't like the memories....:crying:


Why, WHY?!?

Damn you Bioware for changing your original plans.


Not only do they give us Loghain for like 5 minutes until the final battle starts (Unfair that he gets no quest and that there is no part of the story except the final battle where he has something to say... How is my Warden supposed to be friends with him so I can say "You and I have become friends, right?" when discussing the DR without feeling like an idiot?) but whatever snips (He only adds a few words to dialogue really) were recorded either weren't coded properly or ditched. No wonder Alistair usually "wins". :pinched:

#3223
Zjarcal

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Yeah, unless you leave a bunch of sidequests till after the Landsmeet (most of which would feel awkward to do at that point, considering the rush you're in), there's just not enough time to truly bond with Loghain. Sure, you can be nice in the dialogues, but it's not the same as actually taking him with you on your adventures.

Modifié par Zjarcal, 29 septembre 2010 - 10:28 .


#3224
Persephone

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Zjarcal wrote...

Yeah, unless you leave a bunch of sidequests till after the Landsmeet (most of which would feel awkward to do at that point, considering the rush you're in), there's just not enough time to truly bond with Loghain. Sure, you can be nice in the dialogues, but it's not the same as actually taking him with you on your adventures.


And he has nothing to say during side quests. Even when it is about stealing his "crown", heh!!! :P

#3225
Sarah1281

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Persephone wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

Persephone wrote...

And yet more cut or lost Loghain dialogue:

www.youtube.com/watch

Leliana brings up Maric's name at Soldier's Peak, Loghain doesn't like the memories....:crying:


Why, WHY?!?

Damn you Bioware for changing your original plans.


Not only do they give us Loghain for like 5 minutes until the final battle starts (Unfair that he gets no quest and that there is no part of the story except the final battle where he has something to say... How is my Warden supposed to be friends with him so I can say "You and I have become friends, right?" when discussing the DR without feeling like an idiot?) but whatever snips (He only adds a few words to dialogue really) were recorded either weren't coded properly or ditched. No wonder Alistair usually "wins". :pinched:

And since it's impossible for you to get to friendly with him (well, without modding, I guess) then he always gives you a polite brush-off instead of confirming it. Posted Image