12857 réponses à ce sujet

[KnightofPhoenix]

phaonica wrote...
I'm sorta inclined to agree with Addai. Though I will probably fail at arguing it, heh. If Anora really were in danger, does she think she has a better chance going at it alone than with the Warden who is right there and willing to try to rescue her? And if she's not really in danger, then she's leaving you to be killed/arrested by Cauthrien because you lost her game.

As far as the Warden goes, if the Warden thinks they or Anora are in real danger, does it make more sense for the warden to surrender and potentially be permanently captured and executed and whatever just to let Anora get away? Or is it better to try to let the Queen try to talk Cauthrien out of that? If you are going to try to talk Cauthrien down, it seems like the Queen would be more persuasive.

If you believed Anora's premise that Loghain wants to kill her, then revealing her to Cauthrien wouldn't make sense either. Cauthrien is loyal to Loghain and not really the queen. So the only option that does make sense is fight your way out. There is a risk that if you reveal her to Cauthrien, that they would try to kill you both (which doesn't happen, but you don't know that)

But like I said beforehand, everything about that makes little sense.   
Or Anora was playing with everybody and essentially tricked everybody. And good for her.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Addai67 wrote...
So you're supposed to engage that small army with the queen right there, when all of them think she is part of your band?  And that is healthier for Anora?  That doesn't make a lot of sense, sorry.

At that point the only thing that does make sense is to come clean with Cauthrien about Anora.  Even surrendering doesn't make a lot of sense, because the fact that Cauthrien just lets your party go without at least questioning them is dim on her part.

Anora could run away from the fight. I don't think Cauthrien is going to give a damn, if she  doesn't know who taht "guard" is.

And yes, the surrendering option makes little sense and it's written in a very stupid way. It reeks of bad rushed writing.

[Zjarcal]

I have to agree with Addai and phaonica.



Surrendering isn't an option. You're the Warden who Loghain and company have been chasing for months. If you surrender, you're as good as dead. There's no way they will show you compassion.



That leaves two options, fight or try to talk to Cauthrien. While the battle is winnable, the battle is meant to be a situation where the Warden is in over his/her head. The game tries to paint it as a "supposed to lose fight".



Anora could've done something much better than saying, "Cauthrien, this b!tch and company tried to kidnap me!". I mean, Cauthrien is surprised and shocked when she sees Anora. I don't think it would've been too hard for Anora to make some sort of deal with her.

[Sarah1281]

Addai67 wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

Addai67 wrote...
When you walk into a room full of Cauthrien's soldiers and mages, yes. At that point, who has the better chance of surviving, the Wardens who are Public Enemy #1 and # 2, or the queen, Loghain's daughter? She doesn't even give you a chance, however.

In a fight, I vote for the heavily armed fighters over the civilian queen.

So you're supposed to engage that small army with the queen right there, when all of them think she is part of your band?  And that is healthier for Anora?  That doesn't make a lot of sense, sorry.

At that point the only thing that does make sense is to come clean with Cauthrien about Anora.  Even surrendering doesn't make a lot of sense, because the fact that Cauthrien just lets your party go without at least questioning them is dim on her part.

I didn't say anything about what you're talking about. I just said that if there was a fight that broke out, the unarmed and potentially untrained Anora would be more likely to die then the Warden and their party.

[Addai]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

Addai67 wrote...
When you walk into a room full of Cauthrien's soldiers and mages, yes. At that point, who has the better chance of surviving, the Wardens who are Public Enemy #1 and # 2, or the queen, Loghain's daughter? She doesn't even give you a chance, however.

In a fight, I vote for the heavily armed fighters over the civilian queen.

So you're supposed to engage that small army with the queen right there, when all of them think she is part of your band?  And that is healthier for Anora?  That doesn't make a lot of sense, sorry.

At that point the only thing that does make sense is to come clean with Cauthrien about Anora.  Even surrendering doesn't make a lot of sense, because the fact that Cauthrien just lets your party go without at least questioning them is dim on her part.

I didn't say anything about what you're talking about. I just said that if there was a fight that broke out, the unarmed and potentially untrained Anora would be more likely to die then the Warden and their party.

Ah, well in my original quote I am talking about who has a better chance of surviving being turned over to Cauthrien and Loghain.

[Sarah1281]

It is in Anora's best interest not to have Cauthrien discover her or else Loghain will keep her away from everything and she'll miss the Landsmeet. He seemed to have some idea of where she was and might have even been okay with keeping her at Howe's (though not killing her of course).



That does not mean that it's in the Wardens best interest to go along with this but I can't blame Anora for not wanting you to tattle on her to Cauthrien.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Zjarcal wrote...
Anora could've done something much better than saying, "Cauthrien, this b!tch and company tried to kidnap me!". I mean, Cauthrien is surprised and shocked when she sees Anora. I don't think it would've been too hard for Anora to make some sort of deal with her.

But you don't know that.
Anora is trying to maneuvre and is trying to build an alliance with you. The last thing she wants is Loghain finding out.
So revealing her is, from Anora's perspective, not a good thing (and she made that quite clear to you).

Now the surrendering option makes little sense (I do it anyways, because all this scenario is screwed from the beginning). Fighting your way out makes the most sense.
Revealing Anora however, makes little sense if you want to acquire her as an ally.

Now was her reaction the best in the world? No. But what else could she have done?
Reveal to Cauthrien that she is planing to backstab Loghain? Eh no.
So she just threw it at you.

And you really have yourself to blame at that point, you backed her into a corner when she warned you not to a few seconds ago.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 30 septembre 2010 - 11:13 .

[Zjarcal]

Well, let me say that I never expose Anora, I always choose to fight right from the start. Cauthrien never makes it alive out of Howe's estate.

Still I don't approve of her throwing you to the fire in that scenario. I do commend Anora for showing regret at what she did, when she returns to Eamon's estate.

Modifié par Zjarcal, 30 septembre 2010 - 11:20 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Zjarcal wrote...
Still I don't approve of her throwing you to the fire in that scenario. I do commend Anora for showing regret at exposing you when she returns to Eamon's estate.

Arguably, you are the one who threw her at the fire first.

I give myself up because I don't want to kill Cauthrien and make myself look more like a criminal (because apparently I am forced to kill Howe even when I don't want to). But I admit, it does not make that much sense, I have no way of knowing that they won't kill me outright instead of sending me to Fort Drakon.  It isn't out of the ordinary, but why wouldn't Loghain kill his main rival immediately? 

Because we needed an obligatory prison break. That's why.

[Zjarcal]

Yes, that's true. But it's not like you weren't there to defend her. Revealing her to Cauthrien doesn't necessarily spell doom for her right away. If Cauthrien tries to go for the kill, the Warden and company are there to defend her. Her response of "this people were trying to kidnap me" certainly puts us in an even more uncomfortable situation.



But yes, I agree that the Warden does bring this sh!t upon himself/herself for exposing Anora in the first place.



I never surrender for the reasons I stated in an earlier post. It's illogical to think you will be shown mercy. I wish we didn't have to kill Cauthrien, since her convo at the Landsmeet chamber is awesome, but to hell with it.



And we did need an obligatory prison break. Apparently, so did Awakening. Anyone wanna take bets on whether there will be a prison break in DA2?

[alschemid]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
  It isn't out of the ordinary, but why wouldn't Loghain kill his main rival immediately? 

Because Anora disappeared and you are the one who might know something?

[Costin_Razvan]

phaonica wrote...

Costin_Razvan wrote...

I used console to set my approval level to friendly with him, then the dialogue triggered.

Oooh, okay. Here I was thinking he liked you better than me,  

I was able to get him to 100 approval without using prank gifts, still no friendly .

As for the whole Anora thing. It is my belief Anora was playing her game but that Howe himself let Erlina go as to draw the Warden into a trap.

As for Cauthrien. I surrender, I see the odds stacked against me and I know my warden won't be executed just like that without going before the Landsmeet.

P.S. Knight: You never told me what was your final opinion on those videos I gave you.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 30 septembre 2010 - 11:34 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Zjarcal wrote...

Yes, that's true. But it's not like you weren't there to defend her. Revealing her to Cauthrien doesn't necessarily spell doom for her right away. If Cauthrien tries to go for the kill, the Warden and company are there to defend her. Her response of "this people were trying to kidnap me" certainly puts us in an even more uncomfortable situation.

She would thus implicate herself with the Warden and show that she is Loghain's enemy.
She decided to "prove" that she was neither, to get herself out of a tight spot (and give herself more options), she was not going to rely on the Warden's protection (when they are vasstly outnumbered). And still guarantee that Loghain never finds out even if the Warden does break her out (and if she loses her capacity to ally with Loghain, she loses her leverage).

Of course this won't stop people from thinking she's a b*tch.
But her action there makes perfect sense for me.

Zjarcal wrote...
I never surrender for the reasons I stated in an earlier post. It's illogical to think you will be shown mercy. I wish we didn't have to kill Cauthrien, since her convo at the Landsmeet chamber is awesome, but to hell with it.

Well Cauthrien does say you are "under arrest" and not "now you die". So you could take her at her word, that you are going to be arrested and not murdered. Which could be more useful to Loghain, he can say how much of a criminal you are when you are under his custody (and it's somewhat risky for him to kill you before the Landmseet, Eamon can use that). But other than that, yes it is illogical.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 30 septembre 2010 - 11:39 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

alschemid wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
  It isn't out of the ordinary, but why wouldn't Loghain kill his main rival immediately? 

Because Anora disappeared and you are the one who might know something?

Hmmm, possibly. Loghain could have thought that you kidnapped / brainwashed Anora. In fact he does believe that.


@ costin
You mean the WoW videos? I already gave you my opinion. It's nice, but I am not a fan of WoW gameplay and yes I realise it's difficult.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 30 septembre 2010 - 11:41 .

[Costin_Razvan]

You mean the WoW videos? I already gave you my opinion. It's nice, but I am not a fan of WoW gameplay and yes I realise it's difficult.

From what your brother said to me story is the most important for you....though then it begs the question how do you love Sins so much?

[KnightofPhoenix]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

You mean the WoW videos? I already gave you my opinion. It's nice, but I am not a fan of WoW gameplay and yes I realise it's difficult.

From what your brother said to me story is the most important for you....though then it begs the question how do you love Sins so much?

Well Sins didn't have a lore I cared about that got butchered.

But the backstory of Sins is somewhat interesting.
I can enjoy a game with no story, if it's a strategy game. What I can't enjoy is a game with a bad story, or one that ruined a story I liked.

[Costin_Razvan]

I can enjoy a game with no story, if it's a strategy game. What I can't enjoy is a game with a bad story, or one that ruined a story I liked.

If butchered = made so that player has a reason for killing Illidan/Kael/Lich King then I would have to disagree with you there. Or perhaps is it that players can kill them at all?

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 01 octobre 2010 - 12:12 .

[Zjarcal]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

She would thus implicate herself with the Warden and show that she is Loghain's enemy.
She decided to "prove" that she was neither, to get herself out of a tight spot (and give herself more options), she was not going to rely on the Warden's protection (when they are vasstly outnumbered). And still guarantee that Loghain never finds out even if the Warden does break her out (and if she loses her capacity to ally with Loghain, she loses her leverage).

Of course this won't stop people from thinking she's a b*tch.
But her action there makes perfect sense for me.

Well, I should clarify that I don't hate Anora or think she's a b*tch. Well, she is a b*tch, but in a good way.

I still believe that she could've persuaded Cauthrien to let them go. If the Warden can persuade Cauthrien to stop defending Loghain right before the Landsmeet, I see no reason why it wouldn't be possible for Anora to persuade Cauthrien at that point. 

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Well Cauthrien does say you are "under arrest" and not "now you die". So you could take her at her word, that you are going to be arrested and not murdered. Which could be more useful to Loghain, he can say how much of a criminal you are when you are under his custody (and it's somewhat risky for him to kill you before the Landmseet, Eamon can use that). But other than that, yes it is illogical. 

You could take her word, yes, but I find it hard to believe that an ally of the people who sent assassins after me, placed a bounty on my head, and spread propaganda against me, would be willing to actually show mercy, especially after I just killed the Arl of Denerim.

But I think we can agree that it's all a matter of you want your character to handle the situation. Take Cauthrien's word or not.

[Sarah1281]

I still believe that she could've persuaded Cauthrien to let them go. If the Warden can persuade Cauthrien to stop defending Loghain right before the Landsmeet, I see no reason why it wouldn't be possible for Anora to persuade Cauthrien at that point.

Maybe she could. On the other hand, without metagaming knowledge, what would you say the odds of anyone convincing the ever-loyal Cauthrien to stop supporting Loghain are? Even if Anora might have been able to pull it off, there's no reason for her to believe that.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Costin_Razvan wrote...
 Or perhaps is it that players can kill them at all?

That.
All players are, no offense, are bunch of nobodys in the Warcraft lore.
Of course I am not going to like Arthas / Nerzhul / Ligh King, the main character of Warcraft III (and Warcraft II for Nerzhul), be killed by some unknown bunch of people with stupid names.

But we're getting off-topic.

[Zjarcal]

Awww, you used my picture to bring the thread back on topic!

[KnightofPhoenix]

Zjarcal wrote...
Well, I should clarify that I don't hate Anora or think she's a b*tch. Well, she is a b*tch, but in a good way.

I still believe that she could've persuaded Cauthrien to let them go. If the Warden can persuade Cauthrien to stop defending Loghain right before the Landsmeet, I see no reason why it wouldn't be possible for Anora to persuade Cauthrien at that point.

Maybe she could. Maybe she couldn't. I don't think Anora was sure that she could. If she tried, and failed, Loghain would know that Anora is on the Warden's side.

You could take her word, yes, but I find it hard to believe that an ally of the people who sent assassins after me, placed a bounty on my head, and spread propaganda against me, would be willing to actually show mercy, especially after I just killed the Arl of Denerim.

I am not talking about mercy. I am sure he was going to execute you. But he would have done it at court and show the Landmseet that you are a criminal and he isn't (and avoid having Eamon claim that Loghain killed his rival before the Landmseet). At least that's the thinking.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Zjarcal wrote...

Awww, you used my picture to bring the thread back on topic!

Of course, it's the definitive Loghain pic for me

[Zjarcal]

Sarah1281 wrote...

I still believe that she could've persuaded Cauthrien to let them go. If the Warden can persuade Cauthrien to stop defending Loghain right before the Landsmeet, I see no reason why it wouldn't be possible for Anora to persuade Cauthrien at that point.

Maybe she could. On the other hand, without metagaming knowledge, what would you say the odds of anyone convincing the ever-loyal Cauthrien to stop supporting Loghain are? Even if Anora might have been able to pull it off, there's no reason for her to believe that.

Well that's true. Which is why I always attack right from the start. 

[Zjarcal]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
I am not talking about mercy. I am sure he was going to execute you. But he would have done it at court and show the Landmseet that you are a criminal and he isn't (and avoid having Eamon claim that Loghain killed his rival before the Landmseet). At least that's the thinking.

Well, that doesn't bode well for the Warden either, you still die!

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Of course, it's the definitive Loghain pic for me [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/joyful.png[/smilie]

*sniffs*

Thank you KoP!