12857 réponses à ce sujet

[Persephone]

CalJones wrote...

Have to agree with Persephone. Eamon didn't set out to train him to be a spare king in case Cailan kicked the bucket - Alistair was more of an embarrassing secret to be kept out of sight. He may have had some rudimentary tactics training as a templar but much of the training he got would have related to how to deal with mages and such. He wasn't there long enough to get the full training - he never made full templar so I can't see how they would have trained him for any sort of command position. Put bluntly, Alistair was a noober. And then he got conscripted into the Wardens, where he remained a noober until the warden replaced him as most junior.
As for the battle, you run across the bridge right at the beginning. I'm not sure how long it's supposed to take you to light the beacon but the battlefield would have changed by the point you reached the top of the tower. The only hint you get as to how long it would have taken is Alistair saying that you'd surely missed the signal by now.
Certainly, when you do run across the bridge, the archers there are almost all killed by ballistas or what have you, and all but a couple of the tower guards are dead. I doubt it'd look too good on the ground.

His decision to refer to a rookie recruit shows you his ability to lead/command anything or anyone, really.

[alschemid]

Persephone wrote...
His decision to refer to a rookie recruit shows you his ability to lead/command anything or anyone, really.

And still some people make him king... glorious.<_<

Edit: loved the new banner! thanks.

Modifié par alschemid, 04 octobre 2010 - 08:39 .

[Zjarcal]

Wow, I'm glad to see people liked my banner! 

I'm working on a few new ones by the way. And here's my new KoP minion sig:

[CalJones]

Hmph I only make Alistair king if he agrees to marry Anora. We need at least one capable person in charge of Fereldan. *snark*

But Anora gets to rule alone quite often, too.



Nice work, Zjarcal. I'm sure his lordship will be pleased.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Zjarcal wrote...
I'm working on a few new ones by the way. And here's my new KoP minion sig:

This. Is. Awesome.
I want to use it! Zjarcal, can you make it a gif with my bottom one please?
I'll be eternally indebted <3

[Zjarcal]

@KoP:



Ask and ye shall receive:

[KnightofPhoenix]

Zarcal. You are the bestest.

[Zjarcal]

@KoP:



Thank you!



By the way, who are the "badasses" in your sig?

[KnightofPhoenix]

Zjarcal wrote...

@KoP:

Thank you!

By the way, who are the "badasses" in your sig?

From left to right.
Michael Corleone from The Godfather Trilogy.
David Xanatos, from Gargoyles. Obviously.
The Illusive Man, from Mass Effect.

And yes I know it's a very low quality sig. Might have to improve it some time soon.

[Giggles_Manically]

While the Godfather can drag, the first in particular is pure cinematic quality.

Modifié par Giggles_Manically, 05 octobre 2010 - 03:15 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

First and Second. Both were awesome. Third, not as good as it could and should have been. Still cried at the end though.

[Elhanan]

He never finished his Templar training; agreed. Where we disagree is that such training would have been held until his final years. More so, he may have even had such training in his childhood as military cadets may have in our culture today.

Eamon was not embarrassed about Alistair; that was Isolde. And while some here believe Eamon and Teagan are complete fools, I have strong doubts, so them supporting Alistair for King seems to have some merit.

I can see where the Loghain troops can continue to lightly dismiss the witnesses against their charismatic fictional leader, but there are some that survive, and others that can bear witness against his other crimes, too. And a few even survive to see Loghain receive justice.

[Persephone]

Elhanan wrote...

He never finished his Templar training; agreed. Where we disagree is that such training would have been held until his final years. More so, he may have even had such training in his childhood as military cadets may have in our culture today.
Eamon was not embarrassed about Alistair; that was Isolde. And while some here believe Eamon and Teagan are complete fools, I have strong doubts, so them supporting Alistair for King seems to have some merit.
I can see where the Loghain troops can continue to lightly dismiss the witnesses against their charismatic fictional leader, but there are some that survive, and others that can bear witness against his other crimes, too. And a few even survive to see Loghain receive justice.

This is how I see it:

Everything in Alistair's behavior suggests that he not only lacks the the will but also the ability to lead. How old is he supposed to be? 25 at the most, I believe. Loghain even says that even though he might do alright as king, he never had any training in the things that mattered. And he's saying that after his defeat, so he has nothing to gain by lying.

Fictional, charismatic leader? His troops love him. Most of Ferelden revere him and owe him a debt they'll never be able to repay. Soldiers and civilians do not forget that. Eamon supports Alistair's bid so he himself may rule by proxy. Teagan shows doubt, btw. As for justice......how many crimes were committed in the name of justice? 

[Elhanan]

I agree that Alistair lacks the will to lead, but not the ability as the epilogue clearly shows him as a capable leader.

And how many beloved, charismatic legends commit crimes?

[Persephone]

Elhanan wrote...

I agree that Alistair lacks the will to lead, but not the ability as the epilogue clearly shows him as a capable leader.
And how many beloved, charismatic legends commit crimes?

The Epilogue Slides with Anora or a hardened Alistair may be canon.....but they don't strike me as very realistic.

As for your second question: Many. Including the greatest generals in our history. Alexander The Great, Hannibal, Sulla, Caesar, Napoleon......We still revere them. And some of them did things that make Loghain look like a kitten in comparison.

[Costin_Razvan]

By comparison, those guys are kittens Persephone, compared to Ghenkis Khan.



Ghenkis Khan left ENTIRE Pyramids of Skulls, killed a guy by pouring molten silver in his throat, used slaves as the front line troops when in a siege ( aka meatshields ). He killed over ONE million people in one single city. Let alone to using siege weapons loaded with plague and the supposed fact that he was suggested to have raped a great deal of women.



He is a hero in Mongolia, and I respect him greatly as a leader ( though I despise him as a person ).

[Elhanan]

Guess I have higher standards for kittens....

Modifié par Elhanan, 05 octobre 2010 - 10:21 .

[Costin_Razvan]

Elhanan wrote...

Guess I have higher standards for kittens....

Ah, well Ghenkis Khan is rather a unique person in our history. That said there are plenty of leaders who have done far far worse things then Loghain and Howe do in game and many are revered as national heroes. So it's hard for me to find Loghain and Howe as criminals.

[CalJones]

Genghis Khan kittens, you say?

[Elhanan]

Persephone wrote...

Elhanan wrote...

I agree that Alistair lacks the will to lead, but not the ability as the epilogue clearly shows him as a capable leader.
And how many beloved, charismatic legends commit crimes?

The Epilogue Slides with Anora or a hardened Alistair may be canon.....but they don't strike me as very realistic.

As for your second question: Many. Including the greatest generals in our history. Alexander The Great, Hannibal, Sulla, Caesar, Napoleon......We still revere them. And some of them did things that make Loghain look like a kitten in comparison.

You make my point for me, as it has happened quite often. And I was just thinking of OJ., as he ran away. too.

[Sarah1281]

Eamon was not embarrassed about Alistair; that was Isolde. And while some here believe Eamon and Teagan are complete fools, I have strong doubts, so them supporting Alistair for King seems to have some merit.

He made Alistair sleep in the stables. He made a few perfunctory attempts to see him and then when Alistair proved resentful he just stopped coming. He let his wife's insecurities cause him to abandon his ward at the Chantry and overall not treat him very well. The fact that Eamon apparently had no personal problem with him (although this is the child that's not related to him and sired by his sister's husband so can we even say that?) and just let his wife's problems dictate his actions does not speak well of him and if he's not even going to let the kid sleep in the castle why would he give him special lessons?

[CalJones]

Eamon is a giant anus. He's a villain masquerading as a good guy. Oh don't get me started, I hate that man with the power of a thousand suns.

[Zjarcal]

CalJones wrote...

Genghis Khan kittens, you say?

:blink:

I... don't know what to say.

[Addai]

Did this whole spate of Alistair-bashing come about because we're debating his comments to Flemeth? It doesn't matter whether or not he has the military training to make a judgment about the battle- the point is that he had limited information, as everyone does. It's only natural and is also one way the writers keep us guessing. Everyone has their own angle.

Modifié par Addai67, 05 octobre 2010 - 03:18 .

[Sarah1281]

Addai67 wrote...

Did this whole spate of Alistair-bashing come about because we're debating his comments to Flemeth? It doesn't matter whether or not he has the military training to make a judgment about the battle- the point is that he had limited information, as everyone does. It's only natural and is also one way the writers keep us guessing. Everyone has their own angle.

I don't think we're trying to bash Alistair, just to point out exactly what you said. His claiming that Cailan almost won and thus Loghain is the most evil person ever doesn't make it so because he had a horrible view of the battle and may not have had training on strategy and tactics.