12857 réponses à ce sujet

[Persephone]

Elhanan wrote...

Monica21 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Elhanan wrote...
but what do you expect from me; right?

After all this time, I can safetly say we expect very little.

Indeed.

And here I thought you were going to ignore me. But then, you are a fan of Loghain, so your word may mean nothing....

Well, as I once was told that my Warden deserves execution for sparing Loghain......Don't you think this is childish?

[Zjarcal]

phaonica wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

Wow phaonica, I almost made a siggy exactly like the one you're using last night! Same picture (from his cameo in Awakening) and caption (although I wasn't going to include the Gwaren crest).

Looks like it's a good thing I didn't bother making it!

You probably would have done a better job than me at it. I just threw it together because I'd been wanting one like it.

Nah, I like yours, I like the font you used. I didn't have a high res picture of his cameo, that's why I desisted of making it.

[Aeowyn]

KoP, that summary was really awesome. And Sarah that's what I've been trying to say all this time, but people can be so stubborn...

[Elhanan]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Duncan looked up to see the beacon being lit within a minute of Cailan being crushed by an ogre so even if Loghain HAD charged and HAD won at Ostagar Cailan would be dead anyway = so not regicide.

Duncan looked up to see the signal burning; not being ignited. Plenty of light to see who was not where they were supposed to be = Regicide.

[Giggles_Manically]

Elhanan wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

Duncan looked up to see the beacon being lit within a minute of Cailan being crushed by an ogre so even if Loghain HAD charged and HAD won at Ostagar Cailan would be dead anyway = so not regicide.

Duncan looked up to see the signal burning; not being ignited. Plenty of light to see who was not where they were supposed to be = Regicide.

It was lit like thirty seconds before that.
Even if Loghain was in a tank he could not get from the hill to Calian in time.

[Persephone]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Elhanan wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

Duncan looked up to see the beacon being lit within a minute of Cailan being crushed by an ogre so even if Loghain HAD charged and HAD won at Ostagar Cailan would be dead anyway = so not regicide.

Duncan looked up to see the signal burning; not being ignited. Plenty of light to see who was not where they were supposed to be = Regicide.

It was lit like thirty seconds before that.
Even if Loghain was in a tank he could not get from the hill to Calian in time.

So since the Wardens bungled up their duties, THEY are regicides! 

[CalJones]

My advice is ignore Elhanan. He's a numpty and a troll. So not worth it.

[DragonRacer13]

CalJones wrote...

Heh, it's the one Cailan and Loghain look over in the cutscene. Kind of obvious!

This made me laugh because I have the world's most random observation skills (which are severely lacking, BTW).

I'm finally doing some dwarf playthroughs and was playing my total a-hole male dwarf noble (to have a Warden I can finally unlock Reaver with without feeling icky because, well, this guy is a total douche with zero redeeming qualities; am finally seeing scenes/dialogue I never saw before because I have never before picked the "kill him" option whenever presented).

The point I'm trying to make is that this guy is early in the playthrough and I quite literally just finished Ostagar earlier this evening (about to go forth into Lothering)... and I did NOT notice that map above. Literally. Just played the whole of Ostagar less than an hour ago. Did not notice it. Because I a) have totally random observation skills and was too busy waiting for glimpses of Loghain that I honestly was blotting out most the rest.

But then I totally notice my male dwarf staring rather unabashedly and unapologetically at Morrigan's boobies the ENTIRE time he's talking to her outside Flemeth's hut. Then again, that's probably due to his height and my never having played a dwarf before, so that could be the most natural thing in the world for all dwarf playthroughs. But considering it's my jerkass dwarf who will also sleep with anything and everything that moves, I found myself completely losing it watching him watch her boobies the entire time. L-O-freakin'-L

So, I'll notice THAT, of course, but not an important map showing the entire battle plan moments before said battle. Dear Andraste, I hope I'm not turning into Cailan.  Someone please slap me if I start spouting off about things being glorious...

Which, I know Cailan is infamous for the "glorious" comments, but I really didn't notice just how many times he actually says "glory" and "glorious" during his Ostagar scenes. This fifth playthrough, it's become painfully obvious. I may just reload an earlier save simply to play through Ostagar again and count the number of times he says some iteration of "glory". It was, at minimum, four-five times in his incredibly short-lived role. If it's as often as it seemed, it might actually be a good drinking game for playing Ostagar. Take a shot everytime Cailan says "glory" or "glorious" and you'll be hammered long before you reach the ogre...

EDIT: To add that KoP's maps are awesome, despite the directional glitch, and the smiley faces made them full of win. Also edited to fix an amazing misspelling of "dwarf" because I probably should NOT have had that last shot of rum. Drat.

Modifié par DragonRacer13, 07 octobre 2010 - 01:27 .

[Asepsis]

Irish Guerrilla wrote...

After playing the games and reading, "The Stolen Throne" and "The Calling," I must admit that I believe Teyrn Loghain Mac Tir to be the deepest character with the richest back story in the Dragon Age Universe. There wouldn't be much of a story without him.

I do think Loghain has one of the best/deepest back stories in Dragon Age: Origins and the books. I think everything he did is easily understandable after reading the books. I played the games AFTER learning more about him and I started noticing different things about Loghain during his scenes in DA:O. The way he acted and stuff made so much more sense and took on more meaning.

I really like the character, I hope they release more books going into detail about other characters.

I think that if you haven't read the books, read them and look at Loghain's character again. Even if you don't agree with some of his actions (Which I personally didn't) you see him in a different light and it really makes the game more enjoyable I think. I really like Loghain, I don't think you have to accept everything Loghain did 100% to appreciate his character.

[KnightofPhoenix]

DIRECT INTERVENTION IS NECESSARY.

[CalJones]

Did anyone get around to making that Three Loghain Moon shirt? Zjarcal, Ima lookin' at you.

[Giggles_Manically]

Loghain is very surprised in that top pic it seems KoP.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Probably because I tried to make his eyes look more blue, and due to my very poor skills, this happens.

[Giggles_Manically]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Probably because I tried to make his eyes look more blue, and due to my very poor skills, this happens.

Maybe he just saw some poncey Orlesian noble ponce by?

[Reaverwind]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Elhanan wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

Duncan looked up to see the beacon being lit within a minute of Cailan being crushed by an ogre so even if Loghain HAD charged and HAD won at Ostagar Cailan would be dead anyway = so not regicide.

Duncan looked up to see the signal burning; not being ignited. Plenty of light to see who was not where they were supposed to be = Regicide.

It was lit like thirty seconds before that.
Even if Loghain was in a tank he could not get from the hill to Calian in time.

Problem is you don't know how long the beacon was lit before the **** hits the fan. The video leaves it open to interpretation - you can assume everything was already going to hell when the beacon was lit, or just as reasonably assume that there was time for Loghain to do what he was supposed to.

Modifié par Reaverwind, 07 octobre 2010 - 04:45 .

[Aeowyn]

Here's a question: If the Tower of Ishal wasn't overrun by darkspawn and the beacon was lit on time, do you think we would've won the battle? From what I gathered they weren't expecting that many darkspawn to come and as KoP previously mentioned (I think it was KoP anyway) the only way to stop them from coming would've been killing the Archdemon.

[CalJones]

The whole way Ostagar goes down is very much open to interpretation - which is why it's still being discussed a year after the game's release.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Aeowyn wrote...

Here's a question: If the Tower of Ishal wasn't overrun by darkspawn and the beacon was lit on time, do you think we would've won the battle? From what I gathered they weren't expecting that many darkspawn to come and as KoP previously mentioned (I think it was KoP anyway) the only way to stop them from coming would've been killing the Archdemon.

No, I don't think we would have won. The biggest problem we were facing were unexpected numbers which were not favorable to a flanking attack.

But let's assume, for the sake of argument, that Loghain's charge could have resulted in a victory. It would have been at best a pyrrhic costly tactical victory. Strategically speaking, it would have meant little and would have meant that Ferelden is much weaker due to its losses. As we see ourselves in the deep roads, the majority of the Horde is still underground with the Archdemon.  

Ferelden did win 3 battles before and each time, the Darkspawn were increasing in numbers and our numbers were not growing higher. The darkspawn can afford several defeats. Ferelden can't afford neither a devastating defeat, nor a very costly tactical victory.

[CalJones]

Hard to say, Aeowyn. Let's say it was lit on time and Loghain and his men charged...then the rest of the darkspawn came in behind, as per KoP's lovely diagarm:







That wouldn't have worked out too well.

But as with every other scenario, we just don't know.

[Reaverwind]

Aeowyn wrote...

Here's a question: If the Tower of Ishal wasn't overrun by darkspawn and the beacon was lit on time, do you think we would've won the battle? From what I gathered they weren't expecting that many darkspawn to come and as KoP previously mentioned (I think it was KoP anyway) the only way to stop them from coming would've been killing the Archdemon.

That's my main beef with Loghain: he talks out of both sides of his mouth. He downplays the threat the Darkspawn pose whenever Cailin mentions bringing in allies, scoffs at warnings that they're dealing with a Blight, and then proceeds to chastise Cailin for not taking the situation seriously. However, I don't think any of them expected the battle to be a decisive one. I do fault Loghain for the battle strategy - having the battle hinge on a signal sent from a Tower you'd have to be stupid to not suspect it was compromised.

Modifié par Reaverwind, 07 octobre 2010 - 04:56 .

[Addai]

I'm wondering why the numbers took them by such surprise. The Wardens should have been able to sense them, no? Of course, Cailan wanted his battle and wasn't listening to Duncan, either.

[Monica21]

Addai67 wrote...

I'm wondering why the numbers took them by such surprise. The Wardens should have been able to sense them, no? Of course, Cailan wanted his battle and wasn't listening to Duncan, either.

I'm not sure what exactly the Wardens can sense. I don't think it's all that specific. And we should remember what Morrigan said, that the Darkspawn come from underground like an eruption. The dying soldier in the Wilds said essentially the same thing. You can't really scout what isn't there yet.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Reaverwind wrote...
That's my main beef with Loghain: he talks out of both sides of his mouth. He downplays the threat the Darkspawn pose whenever Cailin mentions bringing in allies, scoffs at warnings that they're dealing with a Blight, and then proceeds to chastise Cailin for not taking the situation seriously.

No, he didn't. He didn't believe it was a blight, but we know he made deals with Uldred prior in order to get all the mages to fight. And I assume he had plans to call the dwarves before that too. He was looking for allies and it's clear he was not enthusiastic about Ostagar. But he absolutely refuses to see Orlais as an ally and expects them to be plotting (which turns out to be true).

He is downplaying the threat in the sense he doesn't believe it's a Blight (because he can't know that) and he believes that 4 Orlesian Legions amassing at the borders are the more immediate threat. But it's pretty clear that he was not unaware of Ferelden's need for allies, hence his aliance with Uldred.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 07 octobre 2010 - 05:07 .

[CalJones]

I'd hazard a guess that wardens' ability to sense darkspawn really depends on proximity, and the experience of the warden (ie, the longer they have been wardens, the further away they could sense darkspawn). Perhaps they couldn't sense the darkspawn that were underground, I don't know.

[KnightofPhoenix]

CalJones wrote...

I'd hazard a guess that wardens' ability to sense darkspawn really depends on proximity, and the experience of the warden (ie, the longer they have been wardens, the further away they could sense darkspawn). Perhaps they couldn't sense the darkspawn that were underground, I don't know.

The way I saw it, Duncan only sensed the Ogre right when it was behind him. Aka useless.
Also, Alistair saying "I guarantee they won't be taking us by surprise" is complete bs as a few seconds later, Darkspawn rogues compeltely evade his detection and appear right in front of our faces.

If anything, it seems to me that it's the Archdemon that benefits the most out of this ability, as he is able to sense you and know where you are camping when he is udnerground.