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[Reaverwind]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Reaverwind wrote...
That's my main beef with Loghain: he talks out of both sides of his mouth. He downplays the threat the Darkspawn pose whenever Cailin mentions bringing in allies, scoffs at warnings that they're dealing with a Blight, and then proceeds to chastise Cailin for not taking the situation seriously.

No, he didn't. He didn't believe it was a blight, but we know he made deals with Uldred prior in order to get all the mages to fight. And I assume he had plans to call the dwarves before that too. He was looking for allies and it's clear he was not enthusiastic about Ostagar. But he absolutely refuses to see Orlais as an ally and expects them to be plotting (which turns out to be true).

Plotting in what way? If you're talking about the proposed marriage alluded to in Return to Ostagar - there's no foul there. Cementing alliances even between former enemies through marriage was typical of medieval Europe. Didn't always pan out - but that's neither here nor there.

[Giggles_Manically]

Except that the smaller nation (Ferelden) would be marrying its leader off to a larger EMPIRE (Orlais).



Outside of road building, a good empire's greatest pastime is expanding its borders. People should be wary of Orlais and of Celene. If Calian was willing to marry her that would make Ferelden a vassal state, or a province very quickly.



Trade is a very good idea, but a marriage union?

Not really.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Reaverwind wrote...
Plotting in what way? If you're talking about the proposed marriage alluded to in Return to Ostagar - there's no foul there. Cementing alliances even between former enemies through marriage was typical of medieval Europe. Didn't always pan out - but that's neither here nor there.

Marriage between two reigning monarchs was uncommon and the result of such political marriages was always the absorption or subordination of the weaker country (Ferelden in that case) to the stronger one (Orlais). I have no doubt that Celene was scheming and Cailan was her pawn. Ferelden might not be worth a second invasion, but if Celene can exert her influence on it subtly, this would provde her with many strategic geo-political benefits which I am sure she was not unaware of. 

[Morwen Eledhwen]

Well, but then there's Riordan who could not only sense the Darkspawn from a decent distance but in some cases, their rank and general location (the two generals in Denerim). Had he been a Grey Warden longer than Duncan? Does he have special Orlesian Spidey senses? Or is there some license being taken by the writers based on what's convenient for the story?

[Addai]

Monica21 wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

I'm wondering why the numbers took them by such surprise. The Wardens should have been able to sense them, no? Of course, Cailan wanted his battle and wasn't listening to Duncan, either.

I'm not sure what exactly the Wardens can sense. I don't think it's all that specific. And we should remember what Morrigan said, that the Darkspawn come from underground like an eruption. The dying soldier in the Wilds said essentially the same thing. You can't really scout what isn't there yet.

In the final battle, Riordan seems to be pretty specific in his abilities.  He knows there are two generals in the city, for instance.  He has to get close, but how much closer would the entire Fereldan Wardens need to be than right in the Wilds?  But if they were underground, then yeah I guess that could interfere.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Morwen Eledhwen wrote...

Well, but then there's Riordan who could not only sense the Darkspawn from a decent distance but in some cases, their rank and general location (the two generals in Denerim). Had he been a Grey Warden longer than Duncan? Does he have special Orlesian Spidey senses? Or is there some license being taken by the writers based on what's convenient for the story?

I think the Warden ability is generally incoherent. We are told it's useful, but most of the time it appears useless if not outright dangerous for us.
Riordan can sense two generals, but he has no idea where they are.

[Addai]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Morwen Eledhwen wrote...

Well, but then there's Riordan who could not only sense the Darkspawn from a decent distance but in some cases, their rank and general location (the two generals in Denerim). Had he been a Grey Warden longer than Duncan? Does he have special Orlesian Spidey senses? Or is there some license being taken by the writers based on what's convenient for the story?

I think the Warden ability is generally incoherent. We are told it's useful, but most of the time it appears useless if not outright dangerous for us.
Riordan can sense two generals, but he has no idea where they are.

Yes they appear to work/ not work directly relative to plot requirements.  LOL

Modifié par Addai67, 07 octobre 2010 - 05:18 .

[Giggles_Manically]

I hate when that happens in games.

"THE POWER OF PLOT COMPELS YOU!"



Its so annoying when you are told one thing, or see it in a game yet you cant use it, or pull it off.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Giggles_Manically wrote...
Its so annoying when you are told one thing, or see it in a game yet you cant use it, or pull it off.

It's more annoying when something happens that contradicts what we are told just a few seconds after we hear it.

Alistair: "I guarantee they won't be taking us by surprise. That's why I am here"

*Few seconds later. Darkspawn rogues appear right in our face and take us by surprise*

*looks at Alistair* <_<


Survivalism beats Warden sense. It's a detection ability that actually works (minus stealth enemies) and it doesn't need the taint.

[Giggles_Manically]

I give it to myself all the time.

Its REALLY handy on the higher difficulty settings to help me plan out my attack.

[Aeowyn]

I think it's harder for them to sense a certain darkspawn if there are a lot of them around. Riordan says that he can sense two but he mentions that there are too many darkspawn around for him to pinpoint an exact number (then the fact that there was two is another story I guess lol)

Another interesting point, regarding Alistair in the wilds. In the toolset, his ambient conversation actually has lines like "Careful there are darkspawn ahead" or similar. I wonder why they never used it.

[Zjarcal]

CalJones wrote...

Did anyone get around to making that Three Loghain Moon shirt? Zjarcal, Ima lookin' at you.

What? Could you describe the shot? Three moons and a Loghain... 

Modifié par Zjarcal, 07 octobre 2010 - 07:23 .

[Addai]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...
Its so annoying when you are told one thing, or see it in a game yet you cant use it, or pull it off.

It's more annoying when something happens that contradicts what we are told just a few seconds after we hear it.

Alistair: "I guarantee they won't be taking us by surprise. That's why I am here"

*Few seconds later. Darkspawn rogues appear right in our face and take us by surprise*

*looks at Alistair* <_<


Survivalism beats Warden sense. It's a detection ability that actually works (minus stealth enemies) and it doesn't need the taint.

If they made it so you and Alistair could actually sense darkspawn as a gameplay mechanic, the people who whine about combat being easy would whine even more.

But the fact that the Wardens missed the size of the horde at Ostagar does support Loghain's skepticism about them.

[Persephone]

Reaverwind wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Elhanan wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

Duncan looked up to see the beacon being lit within a minute of Cailan being crushed by an ogre so even if Loghain HAD charged and HAD won at Ostagar Cailan would be dead anyway = so not regicide.

Duncan looked up to see the signal burning; not being ignited. Plenty of light to see who was not where they were supposed to be = Regicide.

It was lit like thirty seconds before that.
Even if Loghain was in a tank he could not get from the hill to Calian in time.

Problem is you don't know how long the beacon was lit before the **** hits the fan. The video leaves it open to interpretation - you can assume everything was already going to hell when the beacon was lit, or just as reasonably assume that there was time for Loghain to do what he was supposed to.

Well, there is no doubt that the signal was delayed. Even Alistair says so. The game provides you with no "Two hours after Loghain's betrayal...." -> cutscene

[Morwen Eledhwen]

Zjarcal wrote...

CalJones wrote...

Did anyone get around to making that Three Loghain Moon shirt? Zjarcal, Ima lookin' at you.

What? Could you describe the shot? Three moons and a Loghain... 

soignee posted this a while ago. . .




Is someone commissioning an actual T-shirt of this? Does anyone dare to walk down to their local screen-printing store in the mall and request one?

[Persephone]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

CalJones wrote...

I'd hazard a guess that wardens' ability to sense darkspawn really depends on proximity, and the experience of the warden (ie, the longer they have been wardens, the further away they could sense darkspawn). Perhaps they couldn't sense the darkspawn that were underground, I don't know.

The way I saw it, Duncan only sensed the Ogre right when it was behind him. Aka useless.
Also, Alistair saying "I guarantee they won't be taking us by surprise" is complete bs as a few seconds later, Darkspawn rogues compeltely evade his detection and appear right in front of our faces.

If anything, it seems to me that it's the Archdemon that benefits the most out of this ability, as he is able to sense you and know where you are camping when he is udnerground.

I LOLed SO hard when those rogues popped out of the grounds two minutes after Alistair's "guarantee"....

[Zjarcal]

A t-shirt?!? No, I don't think I would wear it...



I can make a better version of that pic (which was obviously rushed, so it's not a knock on whoever made it). But that's three Loggys and a moon? Now I'm confused...

[Persephone]

Reaverwind wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Reaverwind wrote...
That's my main beef with Loghain: he talks out of both sides of his mouth. He downplays the threat the Darkspawn pose whenever Cailin mentions bringing in allies, scoffs at warnings that they're dealing with a Blight, and then proceeds to chastise Cailin for not taking the situation seriously.

No, he didn't. He didn't believe it was a blight, but we know he made deals with Uldred prior in order to get all the mages to fight. And I assume he had plans to call the dwarves before that too. He was looking for allies and it's clear he was not enthusiastic about Ostagar. But he absolutely refuses to see Orlais as an ally and expects them to be plotting (which turns out to be true).

Plotting in what way? If you're talking about the proposed marriage alluded to in Return to Ostagar - there's no foul there. Cementing alliances even between former enemies through marriage was typical of medieval Europe. Didn't always pan out - but that's neither here nor there.

Bad choice all around. Binding yourself to the nation who enslaved you?

A similar situation would be Mary I. of England marrying Philipp II of Spain. The English hated the idea and rebelled. When she did marry him, England was pushed into Spain's war with France, bankrupting England and leading to the loss of Calais. DESPITE the marriage treaty stating that England would not be forced into Spain's wars. That made me think of Loghain's brillisnt quote after Wynne babbles about peace. Ferelden would have been in a similar situation, in addition to being weakened by the Blight.

Modifié par Persephone, 07 octobre 2010 - 07:36 .

[Morwen Eledhwen]

Zjarcal wrote...

A t-shirt?!? No, I don't think I would wear it...

I can make a better version of that pic (which was obviously rushed, so it's not a knock on whoever made it). But that's three Loggys and a moon? Now I'm confused...

Apparently you haven't been introduced to the phenomenon of awesomeness that is the Three Wolf Moon Shirt. . .

This is something that some wiseass (or group of wiseasses) decided to resurrect, apparently at random, from the "Man, are we glad the late '80s are over" file and MAKE it cool. Seriously, check out the reviews. There are 1,811 reviews of this product and many of them are spit-take hilarious. I have no idea how this started --it was like a flashmob of ironic Internet snarkery.

Anyway, so the Three Loghain Moon shirt is an obvious spinoff of that --which makes sense, what with the wolves, and the awesomeness, and all. . .

[Wulfram]

Persephone wrote...

Bad choice all around. Binding yourself to the nation who enslaved you?

A similar situation would be Mary I. of England marrying Philipp II of Spain. The English hated the idea and rebelled. When she did marry him, England was pushed into Spain's war with France, bankrupting England and leading to the loss of Calais. DESPITE the marriage treaty stating that England would not be forced into Spain's wars. That made me think of Loghain's brillisnt quote after Wynne babbles about peace. Ferelden would have been in a similar situation, in addition to being weakened by the Blight.

The union between England and Scotland worked out pretty well though

[Persephone]

Wulfram wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Bad choice all around. Binding yourself to the nation who enslaved you?

A similar situation would be Mary I. of England marrying Philipp II of Spain. The English hated the idea and rebelled. When she did marry him, England was pushed into Spain's war with France, bankrupting England and leading to the loss of Calais. DESPITE the marriage treaty stating that England would not be forced into Spain's wars. That made me think of Loghain's brillisnt quote after Wynne babbles about peace. Ferelden would have been in a similar situation, in addition to being weakened by the Blight.

The union between England and Scotland worked out pretty well though

Which one? There was no marriage settling that dispute. It was Elizabeth I. naming James VI of Scotland her heir.

[Zjarcal]

Morwen Eledhwen wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

A t-shirt?!? No, I don't think I would wear it...

I can make a better version of that pic (which was obviously rushed, so it's not a knock on whoever made it). But that's three Loggys and a moon? Now I'm confused...

Apparently you haven't been introduced to the phenomenon of awesomeness that is the Three Wolf Moon Shirt. . .

This is something that some wiseass (or group of wiseasses) decided to resurrect, apparently at random, from the "Man, are we glad the late '80s are over" file and MAKE it cool. Seriously, check out the reviews. There are 1,811 reviews of this product and many of them are spit-take hilarious. I have no idea how this started --it was like a flashmob of ironic Internet snarkery.

Anyway, so the Three Loghain Moon shirt is an obvious spinoff of that --which makes sense, what with the wolves, and the awesomeness, and all. . .

I see... and there is three Linux penguins variation of it!

[Reaverwind]

Persephone wrote...

A similar situation would be Mary I. of England marrying Philipp II of Spain. The English hated the idea and rebelled.

Not a similar situation at all. English disliked the idea because she was the first queen regnant and under English common law all that the wife owns becomes the property of the husband. Evidently commoners didn't quite understand that royalty plays by quite different rules. Adding fuel to fire was that she was also a staunch Catholic who opposed the break with Rome insituted by her father. She didn't earn the moniker Bloody Mary for knitting!

[Persephone]

Reaverwind wrote...

Persephone wrote...

A similar situation would be Mary I. of England marrying Philipp II of Spain. The English hated the idea and rebelled.

Not a similar situation at all. English disliked the idea because she was the first queen regnant and under English common law all that the wife owns becomes the property of the husband. Evidently commoners didn't quite understand that royalty plays by quite different rules. Adding fuel to fire was that she was also a staunch Catholic who opposed the break with Rome insituted by her father. She didn't earn the moniker Bloody Mary for knitting!

VERY similar, in fact. For the reasons I stated. Whether you rebel out of faith or patriotism (The Wyatt uprising was a patriotism affair) doesn't really matter. Celene would have done to Cailan what Philipp did to Mary.

[CalJones]

Thanks Morwen, I knew I'd seen it somewhere! Didn't realise it was soignee. I'm rather partial to the Three Keyboard Cat Moon shirt, personally...

I saw the Three Wolf Moon shirt in a shop at Wildwood NJ last time I was in the US, so I bought it for a friend. I said to the woman running the shop "oh I bet you sell a load of these!" and she said yes, but she didn't seem to have a clue why.

Then again you can also find deep fried butter at Wildwood.