12857 réponses à ce sujet

[tool_bot]

Monica21 wrote...
Because he was never trained as a soldier. He was sent off to the Chantry and trained to control mages. Alistair does say that the Templars are an army, but I'm really not sure what he means by that. I'm more inclined to believe just in sheer numbers and the ability to control mages, but I don't think they are trained strategists and tacticians, if only because their job is not strategy and tactics. It's control and intimidation.

But doesn't Alistair talk to you about how he enjoyed the physical training of it because it involved swordplay (or the use of weapons at least.) ? From the way he talked about them they did sound like they were modeled after a conventional army if their specialty was dealing with mages and abominations.

Or maybe I just got the wrong impression.

[Monica21]

Wulfram wrote...

Probably the people picked out for leadership roles would be trained in strategy and tactics, but I doubt that Alistair would be one of them.

Possibly, but since Alistair never took oaths, all we really know is that he's good in a fight. That doesn't make him a soldier or a strategist.

@tool_bot, aren't you one of the ones arguing that we should trust Alistair's POV about Loghain almost winning because of supposed view from the Tower of Ishal?

[Elhanan]

Wulfram wrote...

Probably the people picked out for leadership roles would be trained in strategy and tactics, but I doubt that Alistair would be one of them.

I dunno; luv him as a messenger from the Revered Mother! She sure picked the right man then!

[Monica21]

tool_bot wrote...

Monica21 wrote...
Because he was never trained as a soldier. He was sent off to the Chantry and trained to control mages. Alistair does say that the Templars are an army, but I'm really not sure what he means by that. I'm more inclined to believe just in sheer numbers and the ability to control mages, but I don't think they are trained strategists and tacticians, if only because their job is not strategy and tactics. It's control and intimidation.

But doesn't Alistair talk to you about how he enjoyed the physical training of it because it involved swordplay (or the use of weapons at least.) ? From the way he talked about them they did sound like they were modeled after a conventional army if their specialty was dealing with mages and abominations.

Or maybe I just got the wrong impression.

No, he said he enjoyed the discipline. And being modeled after a conventional army may have more to do with ranks and deployments than actually being trained to invade or defend. The Chantry's job is control and intimidation and the Templars are there to provide the physical means to do both.

[tool_bot]

Monica21 wrote...

@tool_bot, aren't you one of the ones arguing that we should trust Alistair's POV about Loghain almost winning because of supposed view from the Tower of Ishal?

no...

I remember saying something (back when my screen name was jln.francisco) about how I thought the fight was winnable but I don't think I've ever argued Alistair could make that call.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Alistair did not complete his templar training to my knowledge. While I would think that official Templars do have some understanding of tactics and strategies (they participated in the Exalted marches against the Dales I believe), Alistair was not offically a Templar and I don't think they taught him much about that.

[Giggles_Manically]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Alistair did not complete his templar training to my knowledge. While I would think that official Templars do have some understanding of tactics and strategies (they participated in the Exalted marches against the Dales I believe), Alistair was not offically a Templar and I don't think they taught him much about that.

He did mention that Templars are given an education, so he might have some learning over military tactics.
The study of war has always been big.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Giggles_Manically wrote...
He did mention that Templars are given an education, so he might have some learning over military tactics.
The study of war has always been big.

But would they educate them about this after they become Templars or before?
Eh in any case, Alsitair did not demonstrate an understanding of tactics or strategy for us to say that he most certainly knows about them.

[tool_bot]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

But would they educate them about this after they become Templars or before?
Eh in any case, Alsitair did not demonstrate an understanding of tactics or strategy for us to say that he most certainly knows about them.

Don't know the inner workings of the Chantry but they're meant to be scholars (seems to be a big thing even though Templars are chosen for their devotion to the Chantry and not much else) so some kind of schooling is to be expected. All the codex entries about other countries and the past were written by Chantry scholars so it doesn't sound like much of a stretch to me if they had all recruits sit through lectures on the hisotry of the Chantry and wars the Templars had fought in.

[Sarah1281]

tool_bot wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

But would they educate them about this after they become Templars or before?
Eh in any case, Alsitair did not demonstrate an understanding of tactics or strategy for us to say that he most certainly knows about them.

Don't know the inner workings of the Chantry but they're meant to be scholars (seems to be a big thing even though Templars are chosen for their devotion to the Chantry and not much else) so some kind of schooling is to be expected. All the codex entries about other countries and the past were written by Chantry scholars so it doesn't sound like much of a stretch to me if they had all recruits sit through lectures on the hisotry of the Chantry and wars the Templars had fought in.

The scholars are Chantry brothers not templars. Name one templar who was also a scholar.

[tool_bot]

Sarah1281 wrote...
The scholars are Chantry brothers not templars. Name one templar who was also a scholar. 

Technically speaking they're all Chantry Brothers but I didn't mean to imply templars are the equivalent of say Brother Genitivi or tht one Chantry sister in Denerim who's a curator or something.

I just don't find it all that hard to believe Templars would be made to study wars the Chantry had fought in or how they had fared and what lead to their victory/defeat. I wouldn't expect it to be terribly detailed or anything but I'd expect it to be common.

[TJPags]

Just a note: Training with a weapon and training in tactics and strategy are not really the same.



Personally, I have no doubt that Templars (and Alistair) are trained at arms pretty damn well. Training at tactics and strategy is likely reserved for officers, within Templar ranks, anyway.



We really don't know about Alistair's training at tactics (unless there's something in game that says he wasn't, anyway). However, I think it unlikely that he has such training, but that's my own opinion.

[tool_bot]

TJPags wrote...

Personally, I have no doubt that Templars (and Alistair) are trained at arms pretty damn well. Training at tactics and strategy is likely reserved for officers, within Templar ranks, anyway.

He'd receive more then just weapons training. There's military history, small unit leadership (going by how Templars hunt in small groups) and combat formations (that's pretty much a must for any military organisation). 

[Obadiah]

tool_bot wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...
The scholars are Chantry brothers not templars. Name one templar who was also a scholar. 

Technically speaking they're all Chantry Brothers but I didn't mean to imply templars are the equivalent of say Brother Genitivi or tht one Chantry sister in Denerim who's a curator or something.

I just don't find it all that hard to believe Templars would be made to study wars the Chantry had fought in or how they had fared and what lead to their victory/defeat. I wouldn't expect it to be terribly detailed or anything but I'd expect it to be common.

I don't know if Gregoir is a scholar, but he seemed pretty intelligent (Ser Bryant too actually). He struck me as the kind of commander that would study at the library just to make his Templars a better fighting force against mages, or anyone for that matter.

As far as Alistair goes he seems to have at least studied history, don't know if that included historic battles and tactics used.

Modifié par Obadiah, 09 octobre 2010 - 07:37 .

[TJPags]

tool_bot wrote...

TJPags wrote...

Personally, I have no doubt that Templars (and Alistair) are trained at arms pretty damn well. Training at tactics and strategy is likely reserved for officers, within Templar ranks, anyway.

He'd receive more then just weapons training. There's military history, small unit leadership (going by how Templars hunt in small groups) and combat formations (that's pretty much a must for any military organisation). 

Small unit tactics, maybe, likely not large engagements.  First, not how Templars often fight, and second, even currently I think that's reserved for officers (although I concede no first hand knowlesge there). 

Definitely, he was trained at arms though (likely including fighting in formation, small unit tactics, etc)

[Obadiah]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
...
So how do you imagine the River Dane?

Hmmm, someone should write an ff about it...

Well, just gonna spitball here because I don't see another thread on this.

I thought the Battle of River Dane seemed like the perfect starting point for a Human Commoner Origin. It's such a historic turning point that I'm surprised the devs didn't use it as a legend that fosters loyalty or awe towards Loghian, either because the player was a young character at the battle or the child of a veteran rebel. It would have made the meeting at Ostagar, and subsequent retreat/betrayal/anatagonism much much more personal, and given the player a good reason to actively want to redeem Loghian (or at least speak to him).

Can you imagine an origin similar to the noble one where some darkspawn tragedy befalls your parents, and their dying words to the player as Duncan escapes with them as a Grey Warden recruit are, "Seek out the Hero of River Dane to stop this from befalling the rest of Ferelden"? And then Loghain leaves you to die at Ostagar and starts hunting you down after you survive. Oh the drama.

Modifié par Obadiah, 10 octobre 2010 - 06:13 .

[Addai]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Alistair did not complete his templar training to my knowledge. While I would think that official Templars do have some understanding of tactics and strategies (they participated in the Exalted marches against the Dales I believe), Alistair was not offically a Templar and I don't think they taught him much about that.

*tugs at the chew toy* 

Alistair didn't take vows, but he was nearly at the end of his training.  As he says, the templars are an army, and unlike an army that fights in large corps, they would have had to operate pretty independently.  So I would say he got more training than an average soldier though probably not as much as an army officer.

[CalJones]

Obadiah - yes, I always mourned the lack of a human commoner origin for that reason - a character who looks up to Loghain and has the dialogue choices to back it up would be an interesting foil for Alistair.

[KnightofPhoenix]

CalJones wrote...

Obadiah - yes, I always mourned the lack of a human commoner origin for that reason - a character who looks up to Loghain and has the dialogue choices to back it up would be an interesting foil for Alistair.

One can play a Cousland and rp that you looked up to Loghain in your childhood.
Considering how Bryce and the teacher would probably tell you stories of the rebellion, Loghain's name would have been mentioned quite often.

[Wulfram]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

One can play a Cousland and rp that you looked up to Loghain in your childhood.
Considering how Bryce and the teacher would probably tell you stories of the rebellion, Loghain's name would have been mentioned quite often.

City Elf would probably regard Loghain as a hero too.  At least City Elf's dad does.

[Addai]

New chapter of The Arrangement.  Some mild sexy.

[phaonica]

Addai67 wrote...

New chapter of The Arrangement.  Some mild sexy.

Intense. I like it. Particularly the part where Maric is worrying about Cailan. Your writing is really damn good. I feel like I'm reading an official publication.

[Addai]

phaonica wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

New chapter of The Arrangement.  Some mild sexy.

Intense. I like it. Particularly the part where Maric is worrying about Cailan. Your writing is really damn good. I feel like I'm reading an official publication.

Aww, thank you!

[Aeowyn]

Addai67 wrote...

New chapter of The Arrangement.  Some mild sexy.

I love it Addai. Keep them coming

[phaonica]

And because Stolen Throne was mentioned earlier:

The entire thing had to be written in five months (between May and October of 2008) to allow time for editing and production, and the plot came from thoughts the writers had thrown around back in the early days of Dragon Age production. Ferelden’s war for independence was this thing that lurked in the background, but we never got to make the big deal of it we’d wanted to – so it became perfect fodder for a book. I only wish now that I’d been given the time to make it the bigger book the story needed to be…either that or had been experienced enough to realize that the scope of the story I’d planned wasn’t going to fit into the 400-odd pages I was allowed.

- David Gaider Exclusive Interview with BioWare’s David Gaider – Part 1