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[Giggles_Manically]

I was just replaying ME2 and thought of something.



Simon Templeman owns the role of Loghain, Admiral Han Gerrel, and Dr Archer. Literally his voice just adds so much experience and weight to the roles. The end of the overlord DLC was well worth the price of admission (youtube it if you havent/wont play it).



One reason I think Loghain is so well done is how he is voiced, the Redeemer ending is simply amazing to hear. From someone else I would not like it very much, but it was amazing to hear Simon T, pleading with you to let him be the one to die, to make up for the mistakes he made.



Sorry for the squee.

But do you think there is any other actor you would like as much, or more than Simon T for the role of Loghain?

[Addai]

I dunno, I can't imagine any other voice for him now. Of course I haven't heard ST in other things.

[CalJones]

Nope. He is perfect as Loghain. The voice acting (especially the Landsmeet rant) was what made me love the character in the first place.

I like him as Gavin Archer as well, although that's a different sort of character. I agree that the end of that DLC is, well, amazing. Has anyone here done the ending where David stays with Cerberus? I can't bear to leave him there, even on my renegades.

[Giggles_Manically]

CalJones wrote...

Nope. He is perfect as Loghain. The voice acting (especially the Landsmeet rant) was what made me love the character in the first place.
I like him as Gavin Archer as well, although that's a different sort of character. I agree that the end of that DLC is, well, amazing. Has anyone here done the ending where David stays with Cerberus? I can't bear to leave him there, even on my renegades.

I did it on my Pro-Cerberus Shepard Timothy. 
Not for any of the others though.  

[KnightofPhoenix]

Giggles_Manically wrote...
But do you think there is any other actor you would like as much, or more than Simon T for the role of Loghain?

I don't think so. Of course Loghain's deepness is in the writing of the character, but I don't think any perfomance could have brought him to life as well as Simon T's. 

[Morwen Eledhwen]

It's funny, when you look up "Loghain" on Google Images you will usually find at least a couple of images of this guy:



. . .who, maybe 12-15 years ago, would have been a great choice to play Loghain physically (although the running around and fighting, maybe not so much; but the face, definitely). But, though I love Gabriel Byrne's voice and he's certainly capable of playing the brooding, ornery Celt in his own right. . .



. . .it's still not the Loghain voice. That has already been established and I'd have trouble hearing anyone else attempt it.

Modifié par Morwen Eledhwen, 26 octobre 2010 - 01:17 .

[TJPags]

CalJones wrote...

Well, if Addai can go from Alistair fan girl to writing one of the most awesome Loghain fics out there, then I'm sure we can nudge TJ in the right direction. Right? Right...? *prod prod*

You'd need more than a cattle prod, Cal!!!!! 

Although I did admit he was deep . . . . and you don't know how hard that was for me . . .

[Sarah1281]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

CalJones wrote...

Nope. He is perfect as Loghain. The voice acting (especially the Landsmeet rant) was what made me love the character in the first place.
I like him as Gavin Archer as well, although that's a different sort of character. I agree that the end of that DLC is, well, amazing. Has anyone here done the ending where David stays with Cerberus? I can't bear to leave him there, even on my renegades.

I did it on my Pro-Cerberus Shepard Timothy. 
Not for any of the others though.  

My Shepards are usually at least vaguely pro-Cerberus but I'm never going to do that. Ever.

[CalJones]

Oh go on TJ, you love him really, Denial isn't a river in Egypt, y'know.

Sarah - no indeed. There's nothing that would make me leave that poor autistic kid in that face raper of a machine. I'll let the oil workers burn to death so Zaeed can kill Vido, but the renegade ending of Overlord is a step too far for me.

[Costin_Razvan]

Has anyone here done the ending where David stays with Cerberus? I can't bear to leave him there, even on my renegades.

If all that it takes for the savior of the galaxy to forget the bigger picture because  someone is strung up like that with some epic music in there...then we are doomed!

That's basically what I thought about the whole thing. A pathetic attempt by Bioware to make me fool sorry for David. Well frankly I could care less, and I do believe Archer isn't just lying when he says he will take care of his brother ( and yes, he is taken down from there....it would be just utter stupidity to start that machine again ). 

I find it hypocritical that someone would let the workers die for Zaeed, but take David with em despite the greater implications.

I don't trust the Geth, now don't get me wrong I hate the Quarians with all their bull**** but I will not trust the Geth based on only what Legion says, period. And finding a weapon to defeat them...well worth the price.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 26 octobre 2010 - 02:02 .

[Giggles_Manically]

Except that Overlord is a DLC, so the best we can expect is some random email, or an upgrade that makes Shep a little better at killing Geth.



I really hate how so little was changed in ME2 from what happened in ME1, because really there are only around a dozen or so different lines from people that reflect what you did.

So much for an entirely different game for people. Which is why I loved LOTSB for changing some lines on your actions, and having a really well done end.



Also I agree with Costin, I am trying to make a big ethical choice and Bioware starts playing a very sad score. Its annyoing, yes I get the situation was bad, I dont need mood music to reinforce that Bioware.

[Costin_Razvan]

Except that Overlord is a DLC, so the best we can expect is some random email, or an upgrade that makes Shep a little better at killing Geth

I don't know. I do firmly believe Shadow Broker DLC will tie into the story of ME3 quite deeply, so is it so far off to suggest that Overlord will tie into ME3 story as well?



As for the choice...well the way I figure it is that the writers did their job until the last part where the cinematic team took over. Where the hell is it even IMPLIED that Archer forced it on David to enter it? Not that it would matter at all to me with the choice....but Shepard's speech in the cinematic pisses me off....as well as his renegade reaction.

[Giggles_Manically]

Sometimes Shepard seems to be reading from the wrong script.



Like for most major parts of the game.

Or on the collector ship.



THEY ARE GOING AFTER EARTH!.......



Yes ONE ship is going after all of earth........





Really though LOTSB seems to be the only DLC to date that will affect ME3. Overlord was fun but Bioware may just email into oblivion to put resources into something else, which is easier.



Also Simon T really outshines Meer and Hale at the end, of Overlord. Than again he does that in every game he is in it seems.

[Costin_Razvan]

Just a note, it was a squad member who says they are going after Earth...



...Shepard just agrees with it.



Meh. I played the game for 10 times, but it sure as hell wasn't for the story.

[Giggles_Manically]

I do enjoy the combat in Me2, outside the very annoying cover bugs that can pop up.



Really though ME2 has a pretty shallow story, compared to ME1.

[Sarah1281]

As for the choice...well the way I figure it is that the writers did their job until the last part where the cinematic team took over. Where the hell is it even IMPLIED that Archer forced it on David to enter it? Not that it would matter at all to me with the choice....but Shepard's speech in the cinematic pisses me off....as well as his renegade reaction.

While, of course, you don't have to let sentimentality get in the way of doing what you think is best for the galaxy, I do think he was forced into it. His memories show no sign of Archer talking to him about it and the scene where he's strapped in seems to show he was force itd into it. Besides, even if you think the scene is ambiguous then the writers are unlikely to have Shepard draw the completely wrong conclusion and not be corrected at some point. Though you may not have felt it was clear enough, David was intended to have been there unwillingly. Again, this doesn't have to affect your decision, I just don't agree that there is anything to indicate that he DID volunteer except Archer's word (and he wasn't really honest before you came across David anyway) and a few things to indicate otherwise.

[Costin_Razvan]

There is a small segment of cinematic where you see Archer, David and another scientist walking into the room. David appears to be walking in by his own choice and not force, and in the other cinematics there is nothing to indicate that David was forced to do any of it.

And by few things please be explicit if you will. Again, I don't care if he was forced or not, because I frankly don't give a **** about him, but I would like to see proof that he was forced and not just some speculation with Shepard's words to back it up.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 26 octobre 2010 - 03:58 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

I haven't played Overlord yet, so I can't comment. But the attempt at over-sentimentalizing also happened in RtO. You think showing me clips of Cailan and sad music is going to make me feel sad or think he wasn't one of the worst kings I've seen in a video game? Why not clips for Duncan? That's a person I can actually care about.

[Giggles_Manically]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I haven't played Overlord yet, so I can't comment. But the attempt at over-sentimentalizing also happened in RtO. You think showing me clips of Cailan and sad music is going to make me feel sad or think he wasn't one of the worst kings I've seen in a video game? Why not clips for Duncan? That's a person I can actually care about.

I really did not enjoy RtO at all.

It was just so badly written, and the final choice is kinda well lame.

[Morwen Eledhwen]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

It was just so badly written, and the final choice is kinda well lame.

I've already had my rant about RtO on this board, but I have to agree once again. Basically my thought process on playing RtO the way I did in this playthrough was this:

1) I knew that if you bring Loghain and Wynne, Wynne gets on his case and does not let up the whole time, and Loghain reacts accordingly which, while sometimes amusing, does not result in a reasonable discussion or analysis of Ostagar such as have been conducted in this thread.

2) When not goaded by nagging Mages, Loghain does talk fairly and rationally about Ostagar in other points of the game, but never goes into the kind of detail in re his thought process and the battle situation and potential outcomes etc. that has been used in the discussions in this thread.

3) Because I would prefer my character to make her decisions and form her opinions about Loghain based as much as possible on things that I know that she knows, not what I know, I thought that the smart thing to do would be to go back to Ostagar without Wynne --and indeed without anyone who might be tempted to get on his case-- so that his angry/defensive reactions would never be triggered and we could instead be calm about things, or at least be silent. It was as much an attempt on my Mage's part to show him that she could go back to Ostagar and be calm and reasonable and not freak out and call him names etc., because she trusted him enough at this point to know that he (a) was not simply evil, ( wouldn't just throw soldiers' lives away, and © knew a little bit about fighting and warfare (and perhaps just a bit more than she did ). I thought that this could be a potentially fantastic opportunity for us to officially put all the pre-Landsmeet animosity behind us.

What I didn't know, of course, is that no dialogue was written for Loghain in RtO other than the angry/defensive dialogue that was written primarily in response to Wynne's remarks, guilt trips and finger-waggings. If you do not bring Wynne, he simply spouts any of those lines that aren't addressed to her directly into thin air, or, as it seemed to me at the time, at my Mage and Dog. Since it was such a change from our conversations up to that point, I was a bit shocked, especially when he just did not let up even though no one was offering him any argument or attempting to goad or antagonize him in any way. (Speaking of OOC, how about him shouting in full throat right at the entrance from the Korcari Wilds: "THIS IS A FOOL'S ERRAND!! DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY DARKSPAWN THERE ARE HERE?!?" Uh. . .no, but I think we're about to find out if you keep SCREAMING. . .wtf.) My Mage had no chance to say a word or offer anything to the discussion other than her opinion of what should be done with Cailan's body (which is a whole other problem I had with RtO, don't get me started). I also found out later from CalJones that even if I had brought another "speaking" party member along with us besides Wynne (Dog's whines were ineffective), that party member would never have spoken but Loghain would still have "answered" Wynne's unvoiced remarks. <_<

Boo.

[KnightofPhoenix]

What I also dislike about RtO is the very very weak reason given for going there while the Blight is mostly concentrated south, aka just there. I had to rub my temple a lot to come up with a semi-decent reason and it still sounds stupid. I came up with the idea that we needed to scout...which is what Riordan said he would do after the Landsmeet but whatever.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 26 octobre 2010 - 04:43 .

[Giggles_Manically]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

What I also dislike about RtO is the very very weak reason given for going there while the Blight is mostly concentrated south, aka just there. I had to rub my temple a lot to come up with a semi-decent reason and it still sounds stupid. I came up with the idea that we needed to scout...which is what Riordan said he would do after the Landsmeet but whatever.

I use it as an excuse to also kill Flemeth, we are in the neighborhood after all.

[Morwen Eledhwen]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

What I also dislike about RtO is the very very weak reason given for going there while the Blight is mostly concentrated south, aka just there. I had to rub my temple a lot to come up with a semi-decent reason and it still sounds stupid. I came up with the idea that we needed to scout...which is what Riordan said he would do after the Landsmeet but whatever.

If I'm taking Alistair and Wynne, they both want to go for various reasons but mostly to get the documents and to properly dispose of Cailan's body. This time I focused on Maric's sword. Loghain seemed very interested in that in the discussion with Elric and very concerned about it becoming a "prize" for the Darkspawn. (btw, that was another thing --in that discussion with Elric he never once objected to the idea of going back to Ostagar and in fact did his line about "I never thought I'd be going back there, least of all with you" before my Mage had even said she was going or that she was bringing Loghain. I kind of took that to mean that he was volunteering to go. Boy, was I wrong.)

[KnightofPhoenix]

Giggles_Manically wrote...
I use it as an excuse to also kill Flemeth, we are in the neighborhood after all.

Huh, maybe I should do that.
It means less headaches! Or at least all the headaches concentrated in one area.

Of course the massive headach of the Sacred Ashes still has to be attented to.