12857 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

Well, he wasn't then.

[Aeowyn]

Uldred became a demon long after the battle, after Wynne decided to stick her nose where it didn't belong. Besides, what could he gain from not setting the beacon on fire? I think this was his way to show that mages can do a lot more in a battle.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Uldred wanted to prove that mages can be useful and indeed vital and that's part of his arrangement with Loghain. It was working if it wasn't for Wynne's idiocy.

[tartmuse]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Personally, 'Loghain romance' seems an inherently contradictory wording.

Loghain would never cheat, and Loghain is already happily married.

To his job.

I have a hard time imagining Maric and Loghain being friends under any other circumstances, but battle fire and survival forged their friendship. I imagine the same could spark something between Loghain and the Warden. 

Of course, the Warden would have to live with a mistress. 

A mistress called Ferelden. 

[Sarah1281]

Wulfram wrote...

Aeowyn wrote...

Well if the Reverred bloody Mother would've let Uldred light the beacon by magic, maybe it wouldn't have happened. So I would place my blame on her scrawny bum instead of on Loghain.

Not trusting Uldred was very unreasonable of her, clearly.  Not like he was a demon summoning blood mage or anything.

What's it matter that he was a blood mage? He was being called upon to simply light a beacon. Blood mage or not, he wasn't crazy or possessed at that point and being key to winning the battle would have been in his best interest as then Cailan and Loghain would have seen the value of mages...which may have been partially behind the Revered Mother refusing to let it happen.

[Sarah1281]

icey_cold wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Personally, 'Loghain romance' seems an inherently contradictory wording.

Loghain would never cheat, and Loghain is already happily married.

To his job.

I have a hard time imagining Maric and Loghain being friends under any other circumstances, but battle fire and survival forged their friendship. I imagine the same could spark something between Loghain and the Warden. 

Of course, the Warden would have to live with a mistress. 

A mistress called Ferelden. 

The ideal situation would be a menage de trois, I think.

[Dean_the_Young]

"Hey, look here world! You see this? I'm ******* Ferelden! On its knees between my legs, like the little ***** it is! You see this, Orlais? This is how you put Ferelden in its place! High five, Loghain!"

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 06 novembre 2010 - 04:48 .

[Addai]

Aeowyn wrote...

Uldred became a demon long after the battle, after Wynne decided to stick her nose where it didn't belong. Besides, what could he gain from not setting the beacon on fire? I think this was his way to show that mages can do a lot more in a battle.

??  Are you talking about what Ines says about apprentices?  I take that to mean that it was going on long before Ostagar.  The note in Irving's study indicates that Irving put him in charge of "qualifying" apprentices not to be blood mages.  And Uldred could have become an abomination very early on, we have no way of knowing that.  He might have been dealing with demons for years.

[Addai]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Personally, 'Loghain romance' seems an inherently contradictory wording.

Loghain would never cheat, and Loghain is already happily married.

To his job.

I don't think you've looked at his character closely enough, if you think that.

[kyles3]

<--- be honest ya'll, how loghainy does my new cousland look?

[Aeowyn]

Addai67 wrote...

Aeowyn wrote...

Uldred became a demon long after the battle, after Wynne decided to stick her nose where it didn't belong. Besides, what could he gain from not setting the beacon on fire? I think this was his way to show that mages can do a lot more in a battle.

??  Are you talking about what Ines says about apprentices?  I take that to mean that it was going on long before Ostagar.  The note in Irving's study indicates that Irving put him in charge of "qualifying" apprentices not to be blood mages.  And Uldred could have become an abomination very early on, we have no way of knowing that.  He might have been dealing with demons for years.

No, I meant Uldred's negotiation with Loghain and how I believe the Circle would've been fine if Wynne hadn't revealed "Loghain's treachery" to Irving.
When you speak to Niall in the Fade, I got the impression that he became an abomination at the meeting.

[Wulfram]

Sarah1281 wrote...

 What's it matter that he was a blood mage? He was being called upon to simply light a beacon. Blood mage or not, he wasn't crazy or possessed at that point and being key to winning the battle would have been in his best interest as then Cailan and Loghain would have seen the value of mages...which may have been partially behind the Revered Mother refusing to let it happen.

Except of course that Cailan winning at Ostagar would have made Loghain's planned coup much more difficult, and he had allied himself with Loghain.

[Aeowyn]

Wulfram wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

 What's it matter that he was a blood mage? He was being called upon to simply light a beacon. Blood mage or not, he wasn't crazy or possessed at that point and being key to winning the battle would have been in his best interest as then Cailan and Loghain would have seen the value of mages...which may have been partially behind the Revered Mother refusing to let it happen.

Except of course that Cailan winning at Ostagar would have made Loghain's planned coup much more difficult, and he had allied himself with Loghain.

Loghain didn't plan a coup....

[Wulfram]

Aeowyn wrote...

Loghain didn't plan a coup....

He did.  He didn't want to kill Cailan, or likely even depose him, but he intended to force Cailan to abandon his plans.  To that end, he made alliances with Howe and the mages and poisoned one of Cailans key supporters.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Wulfram wrote...

Aeowyn wrote...

Loghain didn't plan a coup....

He did.  He didn't want to kill Cailan, or likely even depose him, but he intended to force Cailan to abandon his plans.  To that end, he made alliances with Howe and the mages and poisoned one of Cailans key supporters.

That is not a coup. A coup is the forceful removal of a government, which is not what Loghain intended.
To convince, compel, or coerce Cailan to change his mind is not a Coup d'Etat.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 06 novembre 2010 - 06:19 .

[blothulfur]

Just played through battle of denerim again and anoras screeching was even worse, decided i'm going to bloody mod in loghain doing the speech if it takes months. Think I know a simon templeman voice over from the legacy of kain series that will work in it as well, goodbye drinking time.

[KnightofPhoenix]

blothulfur wrote...

Just played through battle of denerim again and anoras screeching was even worse, decided i'm going to bloody mod in loghain doing the speech if it takes months. Think I know a simon templeman voice over from the legacy of kain series that will work in it as well, goodbye drinking time.

Good luck with that!

[blothulfur]

Cheers.

[Sarah1281]

Wulfram wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

 What's it matter that he was a blood mage? He was being called upon to simply light a beacon. Blood mage or not, he wasn't crazy or possessed at that point and being key to winning the battle would have been in his best interest as then Cailan and Loghain would have seen the value of mages...which may have been partially behind the Revered Mother refusing to let it happen.

Except of course that Cailan winning at Ostagar would have made Loghain's planned coup much more difficult, and he had allied himself with Loghain.

I don't see why Loghain winning at Ostagar would have done any such thing. And furthermore, it would have supported Loghain's claim that they didn't need Orelsians to fight the darkspawn. A loss at Ostagar and Cailan alive would have almost certainly led to the troops coming in.

[Zjarcal]

blothulfur wrote...

Just played through battle of denerim again and anoras screeching was even worse, decided i'm going to bloody mod in loghain doing the speech if it takes months. Think I know a simon templeman voice over from the legacy of kain series that will work in it as well, goodbye drinking time.

OMG, if you do that I will worship the ground you walk on!

I can't stand Anora's screeching either.

[Persephone]

*Points at new avatar* Say hello to Rhiannon. (She looks sooooooooo much better on screenies & in game) :innocent:

[Wulfram]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

That is not a coup. A coup is the forceful removal of a government, which is not what Loghain intended.
To convince, compel, or coerce Cailan to change his mind is not a Coup d'Etat.

If Loghain is overruling Cailan by force, then he is ruling.  That is a coup.

Sarah wrote...

I don't see why Loghain winning
at Ostagar would have done any such thing. And furthermore, it would
have supported Loghain's claim that they didn't need Orelsians to fight
the darkspawn. A loss at Ostagar and Cailan alive would have almost
certainly led to the troops coming in.

If Cailan has led Ferelden to victory, despite Loghains public disagreement, he will be in a far better position to stand up for himself.  While if Cailan leads Ferelden to disaster at Ostagar against Loghain's advice, then he would have little credibility.

[Aeowyn]

But Loghain wasn't planning to overrule Cailan. He was planning to stop him from doing something retarded, which was going into an alliance with Empress Celene.

[CalJones]

Gah! No, it's only a coup if he forcibly removed Cailan from power. Trying to change someone's mind is not a coup. (And it failed anyway, since Cailan wasn't going to be swayed).

[KnightofPhoenix]

Wulfram wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

That is not a coup. A coup is the forceful removal of a government, which is not what Loghain intended.
To convince, compel, or coerce Cailan to change his mind is not a Coup d'Etat.

If Loghain is overruling Cailan by force, then he is ruling.  That is a coup.

No, that's technically not a coup, If Cailan relents to Loghain's wishes (who is Teyrn, general of Ferelden's armies and Cailan's closest advisor). A coup is by definition the overthrow of a government.