12857 réponses à ce sujet

[Sarah1281]

And Weisshaupt is thrilled to hear you got an Arling. Seriously, does anyone but Duncan actually take that 'you must give up your past life' stuff seriously?

[KnightofPhoenix]

phaonica wrote...
And of course the PC Warden can set themselves up to be king or queen, too. The Ferelden Warden rules seem to be whatever you want them to be.

Technically, only consort.

Sarah1281 wrote...
That is a policy that Wardens are
supposed to have and that Duncan takes very seriously but there's no
reason to think that the rest of Thedas has the same no-titled Warden
policy as the Wardens themselves do/are supposed to.

Yea, we know the Orlesian Warden commander in Awakening was in the Imperial court of Orlais.

But this is more than just a title. This is a Warden becoming the king of a nation, which is a huge precedent and might be seen as dangerous by some, warden and non-warden alike. Or could be seen as a good thing. Depends on how you look at it.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 06 novembre 2010 - 11:06 .

[phaonica]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

phaonica wrote...
And of course the PC Warden can set themselves up to be king or queen, too. The Ferelden Warden rules seem to be whatever you want them to be.

Technically, only consort. 

Whichever. The point is that they're the most powerful *political* titles in Ferelden being held by members of an organization that claims to be politically neutral.

Or could be seen as a good thing. Depends on how you look at it.

It depends on what the point of their proclaimed neutrality is in the first place. If they're moving towards the "serving by ruling" mentality, that's very Tevinter Imperium of them.

[Xilizhra]

Is Cailan really that bad? I mean, he's a bit of an idiot, but he's quite a nice guy (and I think there's evidence elsewhere that he's not nearly as dumb as he seems). He just seems to be kind of a forgotten character, to be mocked in fanfiction.

[KnightofPhoenix]

phaonica wrote...
It depends on what the point of their proclaimed neutrality is in the first place. If they're moving towards the "serving by ruling" mentality, that's very Tevinter Imperium of them.

Personally, I think I want to write an article or something with a revisionist view of Warden claimed neutrality.

When the order first appeared, it was a bunch of veterans (mostly Tevinter) who essentially said they are going to fight the Blight on their own, without taking orders from the Imperium. This however does not necessarily mean they were politically neutral. It means more that they wanted to fight the Blight out of their own accord. 

After the 2nd Blight however, it was clear that Emperor Drakon of Orlais was the leader of the war effort against the Blight and the Wardens followed him. True enough after the war, they acted like missionaries for the Chantry Drakon created as a tool to spread Orlesian influence. That is the exact opposite of being poltically neutral, for they were helping an Empire spread its influence.

It is my opinion that the stress on Warden neutrality was brought forward during the Third Blight, where the Wardens convinced the Tevinter Imperium amd Orlais to set aside their feuds and unite against the darkspawn.  Had the Wardens, at the time, been too associated with either power, that diplomatic feat would have been very hard to pull off.

So I think the idea behind Warden neutrality, that I believe was crystallised only during the 3rd Blight, is that they do not play favorites and do not engage in the international political landscape outside of Blights (may be a reason why the Anderfels is also somewhat isolated).

But that trend is seemingly being reversed now and it's clear the current First Warden wants the Order to play a more active role in politics. So I do not think "warden neutrality" is a key tenent and principle that is set in stone, contrary to what Duncan makes it sound like. I think it was more of an idea and position that made sense during the Third Blight and it ultimately set some sort of precedent / tradition. Of course this is speculation on my part.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 06 novembre 2010 - 11:30 .

[Wulfram]

The Wardens do what they must. You can get away with a lot, so long as you can justify it in terms of expediency in defeating the Blight.



Alistair's Theirin blood is useful, and that usefulness trumps Grey Warden traditions. I interpret Grey Warden neutrality as meaning "side with whoever is best for beating the darkspawn", rather than "don't take sides".

[phaonica]

Xilizhra wrote...

Is Cailan really that bad? I mean, he's a bit of an idiot, but he's quite a nice guy (and I think there's evidence elsewhere that he's not nearly as dumb as he seems). He just seems to be kind of a forgotten character, to be mocked in fanfiction.

I like Cailan well enough as a character. He seems like 'an idiot', but there is a backstory reason for it, it's not just for comic relief. I thought he was a generally likeable person, but I didn't find his behavior to be acceptable for a king.

[KnightofPhoenix]

phaonica wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Is Cailan really that bad? I mean, he's a bit of an idiot, but he's quite a nice guy (and I think there's evidence elsewhere that he's not nearly as dumb as he seems). He just seems to be kind of a forgotten character, to be mocked in fanfiction.

I like Cailan well enough as a character. He seems like 'an idiot', but there is a backstory reason for it, it's not just for comic relief. I thought he was a generally likeable person, but I didn't find his behavior to be acceptable for a king.

Cailan would have been likeable as something other than a king (or anything that doesn't require responsability, maturity and intelligence). Like Anora said, he would have been a fun adventurer and card player.

[Xilizhra]

I think Anora was doing most of the ruling anyway, but no matter. I would have enjoyed having him in my party (moreso than Alistair, really).

[phaonica]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Personally, I think I want to write an article or something with a revisionist view of Warden claimed neutrality.

That would be awesome.

But that trend is seemingly being reversed now and it's clear the current First Warden wants the Order to play a more active role in politics. So I do not think "warden neutrality" is a key tenent and principle that is set in stone, contrary to what Duncan makes it sound like. I think it was more of an idea and position that made sense during the Third Blight and it ultimately set some sort of precedent. Of course this is speculation on my part.

Their maintaining their neutrality makes sense to me. It seems like they should be focusing on restoring and cultivating that, rather than reversing it.

[KnightofPhoenix]

phaonica wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Personally, I think I want to write an article or something with a revisionist view of Warden claimed neutrality.

That would be awesome.

Which probably won't happen

Their maintaining their neutrality makes sense to me. It seems like they should be focusing on restoring and cultivating that, rather than reversing it.

I concur. Warden individuals not being neutral as an exception or rare occurence, I can accept. The Order as a whole however engaging in politics more than they have to? I think this could be dangerous. Could be very succesful if it works, but the risk is too high for me. 

This issue is the focus of Lady Damodred's Sundered Order ff, which IIRC, you already know about.

[phaonica]

Xilizhra wrote...

I think Anora was doing most of the ruling anyway, but no matter. I would have enjoyed having him in my party (moreso than Alistair, really).

I was thinking about what it might have been like for Cailan to have adventured with the Warden and party. I might have liked the idea of Cailan's adventuring with the Warden giving him the opportunity to mature as a leader, and to grow into the man he wanted to be. Buuut, that's also a change I might have liked to have seen in Alistair, and didn't, so perhaps that's wishful thinking.

[Addai]

Xilizhra wrote...

Is Cailan really that bad? I mean, he's a bit of an idiot, but he's quite a nice guy (and I think there's evidence elsewhere that he's not nearly as dumb as he seems). He just seems to be kind of a forgotten character, to be mocked in fanfiction.

Ohhh, some of us do a little more than mocking him.  In fanart, too. 

I think sweetfoxy took her page down, damn... she had the hottest Cailan-Warden drawings bar none.

[Xilizhra]

You have a Cailain-romance fanfiction? I must admit, I'm curious.

[Addai]

When I was looking in my dA favorites page, I noticed this and realized how well it works as a young Loghain.  It's Gil-Galad, however.    (Tolkien elf)



link

Modifié par Addai67, 06 novembre 2010 - 11:52 .

[Persephone]

Addai67 wrote...

Persephone wrote...

*Points at new avatar* Say hello to Rhiannon. (She looks sooooooooo much better on screenies & in game) :innocent:

Hey!  I think she looks fine there.  A mage, right?  (I really want to read your story...  I'm so tempted...)

Awwwwwwwwwwwwwww, thanks. She is wearing a mage robe but she's a Cousland. But if you want to read the best Loghain fics out there, go for "Trovommi Amor", "Cartography" or the "The Lion Of Orlais" series. Once you've finished yours, as you said you didn't want non-Canon influence.

[Addai]

Xilizhra wrote...

You have a Cailain-romance fanfiction? I must admit, I'm curious.

Not really... a Loghain one, actually.    But I like Cailan and try to write him sympathetically, even though his weaknesses largely drive the plot at this point.  I don't think any of the characters in DA are scapegoats.  The tragedy is in the "what might have been."  If Cailan and Loghain had trusted each other as Maric and Loghain did, the Origins conflict would never have happened.

[phaonica]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Their maintaining their neutrality makes sense to me. It seems like they should be focusing on restoring and cultivating that, rather than reversing it.

I concur. Warden individuals not being neutral as an exception or rare occurence, I can accept. The Order as a whole however engaging in politics more than they have to? I think this could be dangerous. Could be very succesful if it works, but the risk is too high for me. 

It just seems like the wrong way to go about things. An organization like that shouldn't be seeking political leverage, it should only be seeking to maintain a good political reputation. Maybe that's not realistic, though.

This issue is the focus of Lady Damodred's Sundered Order ff, which IIRC, you already know about.

It sounds interesting. It's just very long, and I'm not prepared to pick it up. Maybe someday.

[phaonica]

Addai67 wrote...

When I was looking in my dA favorites page, I noticed this and realized how well it works as a young Loghain.  It's Gil-Galad, however.    (Tolkien elf)

link

Oooh, I like him.

[Addai]

Same artist who did the Gil-Galad up above did this one, as well, an unnamed man.  I need to send him a note and tell him he's drawing young Loghain and doesn't know it.  LOL  Really beautiful stuff at his page.  Too bad more artists like him weren't actually drawing Loghain.  (edit: oops, the artist is actually a "she")



link

Modifié par Addai67, 07 novembre 2010 - 12:13 .

[Costin_Razvan]

 

If Cailan and Loghain had trusted each other as Maric and Loghain did, the Origins conflict would never have happened.

It wasn't about trust, but rather of differing opinions in the matter. Cailan saw Loghain as a relic of the past who had no place in the the current age while Loghain believed Cailan could be reasoned with.
Both where wrong, but to quote one of my favorite characters in video gaming history ( Thrall from Warcraft Universe ):

"I offer no judgment on anyone save a handful of individuals who knew full well what they were doing, knew that they were trading the lives and destiny of their people for gratification in the moment, and did so gleefully. For the others...I can only shake my head and be grateful that I was not forced to make the choices they did."

[KnightofPhoenix]

@ Costin
Yea I really like Thrall. If Bhelen is the Dwarven Messiah, I'd say Thrall is the Orc Messiah

No but seriously I like him. And even though Grom Hellscream was at many times a moron, I liked the duo.

[Morwen Eledhwen]

Addai67 wrote...

When I was looking in my dA favorites page, I noticed this and realized how well it works as a young Loghain.  It's Gil-Galad, however.    (Tolkien elf)

*snip*
link

*Very* nice. Has she done one of Elrond? I've never seen what I've considered to be a proper picture of him. Tolkien Elves (and half-Elves) are so difficult to protray visually, especially the older ones like Elrond and Galadriel, because they're thousands of years old and have that much knowledge and experience, yet don't age in the normal biological way that humans do. But with that Gil-Galad as a reference I'd be very interested to see her take on Elrond.

Modifié par Morwen Eledhwen, 07 novembre 2010 - 12:45 .

[Addai]

Morwen Eledhwen wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

When I was looking in my dA favorites page, I noticed this and realized how well it works as a young Loghain.  It's Gil-Galad, however.    (Tolkien elf)

*snip*
link

*Very* nice. Has he done one of Elrond? I've never seen what I've considered to be a proper picture of him. Tolkien Elves (and half-Elves) are so difficult to protray visually, especially the older ones like Elrond and Galadriel, because they're thousands of years old and have that much knowledge and experience, yet don't age in the normal biological way that humans do. But with that Gil-Galad as a reference I'd be very interested to see his take on Elrond.

I made a mistake, elfkin (the artist) is female.  No Elrond, but she has another sexy dark-haired elf here.

I also reeeallly like tuuliky's Tolkien art, such as Fingon In Love.  She has a toddler Elrond!

On topic because Noldor are also dark-haired, broody and sexy. 

[Morwen Eledhwen]

Addai67 wrote...

 No Elrond, but she has another sexy dark-haired elf here.

Actually she says that's one of the Haradhrim. Makes more sense --he's pretty nice, but not very Elf-like.

I also reeeallly like tuuliky's Tolkien art, such as Fingon In Love.  She has a toddler Elrond!

On topic because Noldor are also dark-haired, broody and sexy. 

. . .and have lots of pride and pretty hot tempers. . .

Fingon looks a bit Young-Loghain-y, actually *purr*. The idea of a toddler Elrond is cute, but that's not how I pictured Elwing. *shrugs*

Modifié par Morwen Eledhwen, 07 novembre 2010 - 01:13 .