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[Persephone]

The point of no return....poor Rhiannon. :happy:

[Morwen Eledhwen]

^ Uh oh. . .I see Alistair's Eyebrow of Doom is in full effect.

And Sten actually looks good in the Blood Dragon Armor. Who knew?

Modifié par Morwen Eledhwen, 15 novembre 2010 - 07:38 .

[Costin_Razvan]

Hmm Addai, what armor you using there for Loghain? ( In gate kiss movie that is ).

Anyway, here is a song for Loghain. Audiomachine: House of Cards. More specifically a Loghain romance theme....I think.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 15 novembre 2010 - 07:47 .

[Persephone]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Hmm Addai, what armor you using there for Loghain? ( In gate kiss movie that is ).

Anyway, here is a song for Loghain. Audiomachine: House of Cards. More specifically a Loghain romance theme....I think.

I like that song! A LOT! 

My Loghain romance song would be "The Hand Of Sorrow" by Within Temptation:

The child without a name grew up to be the hand
To watch you, to shield you or kill on demand
The choice he'd made he could not comprehend
His blood a grim secret they had to command

He's torn between his honor and the true love of his life
He prayed for both but was denied

So many dreams were broken and so much was sacrificed
Was it worth the ones we loved and had to leave behind?
So many years have past, who are the noble and the wise?
Will all our sins be justified?

The curse of his powers tormented his life
Obeying the crown was a sinister crime
His soul was tortured by love and by pain
He surely would flee but the oath made him stay

He's torn between his honor and the true love of his life
He prayed for both but was denied

So many dreams were broken and so much was sacrificed
Was it worth the ones we loved and had to leave behind?
So many years have past, who are the noble and the wise?
Will all our sins be justified?

Please forgive me for the sorrow, for leaving you in fear
For the dreams we had to silence, that's all they'll ever be
Still I'll be the hand that serves you
Though you'll not see that it is me

So many dreams were broken and so much was sacrificed
Was it worth the ones we loved and had to leave behind?
So many years have past, who are the noble and the wise?
Will all our sins be justified?

Modifié par Persephone, 15 novembre 2010 - 11:12 .

[Elhanan]

Open inquiry to the Loghain League: Are you content for the most part of having most of the personal insights revealved after the Landsmeet, or would have small reveals along the way influencing the Landsmeet outcome been more favorable? Thanks!

[Persephone]

Elhanan wrote...

Open inquiry to the Loghain League: Are you content for the most part of having most of the personal insights revealved after the Landsmeet, or would have small reveals along the way influencing the Landsmeet outcome been more favorable? Thanks!

To tell you the truth:

I always thought that the idea to "Recruit him and understand him better" was a bad one. Granted, we see Loghain being very exhausted and we also see that he despises Howe in the Denerim cutscenes... But I think more screentime as well as recruiting him earlier (Have the Landsmeet trigger as soon as Eamon is up and about) would have been a much better idea. Respec Mods or no (I use one), it would permit us to level Loghain more to our liking. We'd have the time to really get to know him and wouldn't be as close to Alistair as in the final game. But not everyone has read the books. Not everyone is a complete pragmatist. Not everyone feels emotionally moved by him as I do. So am I content? No. Especially since whatever dialogue we did get in the vanilla game is bugged. And as much as I like shades of grey, the War Council was subtle as a sledgehammer and the rest was too vague. Just my interpretation, of course. I adore the character, certainly, but IMO having him available ONLY before the final battle is a bad idea. Add to that the again not so subtle "reminder" of his "villainy" in the alienage.... (Feels totally OOC and unnecessary as there are much better ways to fill your coffers) No, I am not content at all. Then there is the "lost" dialogue in the toolset (I.E. the Slander quest, where he actually has some badass lines) and his general silence if you take him along during sidequests (Except WP & RTO)...Sloppy, Bioware, just SLOPPY!

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Persephone wrote...


To tell you the truth:

I always thought that the idea to "Recruit him and understand him better" was a bad one. Granted, we see Loghain being very exhausted and we also see that he despises Howe in the Denerim cutscenes... But I think more screentime as well as recruiting him earlier (Have the Landsmeet trigger as soon as Eamon is up and about) would have been a much better idea. Respec Mods or no (I use one), it would permit us to level Loghain more to our liking. We'd have the time to really get to know him and wouldn't be as close to Alistair as in the final game. But not everyone has read the books. Not everyone is a complete pragmatist. Not everyone feels emotionally moved by him as I do. So am I content? No. Especially since whatever dialogue we did get in the vanilla game is bugged. And as much as I like shades of grey, the War Council was subtle as a sledgehammer and the rest was too vague. Just my interpretation, of course. I adore the character, certainly, but IMO having him available ONLY before the final battle is a bad idea. Add to that the again not so subtle "reminder" of his "villainy" in the alienage.... (Feels totally OOC and unnecessary as there are much better ways to fill your coffers) No, I am not content at all. Then there is the "lost" dialogue in the toolset (I.E. the Slander quest, where he actually has some badass lines) and his general silence if you take him along during sidequests (Except WP & RTO)...Sloppy, Bioware, just SLOPPY!

This. Given the fact he is your prime nemesis throughout the game, and such an important figure in the lore and setting, it was extremely disappointing the lack of content related to him. The cuts and loose ends they left with Loghain make it even more painful. It's clear that after Landsmeet, everything was rushed, and I think it was sloppy. Loghain as a companion was pure afterthought, I think.

There is alot more regarding him, and all we have is speculation because the developers dropped the ball. Thankfully, we have talented and dedicated modders to sort things out that the developers were too lazy to do. My only regret is that we can't pay them for their work.

[mousestalker]

I'm away from my gaming computer. What is the 'slander quest' and what's the dialogue associated with it? That sounds intriguing.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...
There is alot more regarding him, and all we have is speculation because the developers dropped the ball.

And @ Persephone.

Yep, 100% in agreement. If you think about it, the entire game reeks of sloppiness. All the writing concerning warfare, the military, tactics, specifically post Landsmeet is laughable (the entire fantasy genre is never able to show us war as it truly is). The entire Redcliffe quest is badly written. The rationale for doing Sacred Ashes quest gives me a headache (the quest itself is fine). The Civil war is virtually unexplored. Plothammers everwhere. Our choices don't have as much impact in-game as they should have (picking Bhelen should have added more dwarves in the final battle for instance). The DR does not take into consideration romance except for one line. Other than Loghain and the letters, RtO is useless and serves little to no purpose and I have a hard time RPing going there. The DLCs for the most part are weak (except for Shale and Warden's Keep).....etc etc

Really, DA:O shines with companions, NPCs and the general lore broadly speaking (it doesn't do as well if you look at the details though).

And DA:O had 5 years of dev time, I wonder how they are going to make DA2 better in that regard. 

PS: DA:O is still my favorite game btw

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 15 novembre 2010 - 03:29 .

[Addai]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Hmm Addai, what armor you using there for Loghain? ( In gate kiss movie that is ).

Anyway, here is a song for Loghain. Audiomachine: House of Cards. More specifically a Loghain romance theme....I think.

It's the River Dane armor, but I blasted him with the Upgrade Wand to make it tier 7 dragonbone.  I was just wanting to boost his stats, but did I squee over the fact that their armor then matched?  Yes I did.  'Cuz I'm sappy like that.  LOL  I also think the color looks good on him.

I'll have to listen to that song later, I'm interested.  I have a playlist that I sometimes listen to while writing.  I figure Loghain as a heavy metal guy, so the one that strikes me as most apt is Nothing Else Matters by Metallica.  The other song that strikes me as appropriate is More Than Words.

[Costin_Razvan]

Ah, upgrade wand? Sounds interesting. I think I might get that mod.



I will very likely replay my cannon and do a LP with him on youtube. ( once Phaonica finishes her mod ).

[Addai]

Persephone wrote...

He's torn between his honor and the true love of his life
He prayed for both but was denied

Wow, that is really striking.  I was just reading the red dress scene with Rowan again this weekend.  It's one of the few places that Gaider shows us how deeply Loghain felt that, contrasted to the fact that she even says she has hardly heard him put a few words together and that only Maric could make him talk.

[phaonica]

Elhanan wrote...

Open inquiry to the Loghain League: Are you content for the most part of having most of the personal insights revealved after the Landsmeet, or would have small reveals along the way influencing the Landsmeet outcome been more favorable? Thanks!

I don't know. Part of me likes that recruiting Loghain is a leap of faith, and is presented as a risk in a way that recruiting assassins, murderers, and apostates isn't. I'm not sure I would change the way Loghain was presented so much as I would change the way some of the PC choices in the game are presented. Make the PC's choices more intense, give the PC the ability to make choices that fail and cause problems (that you can know of sometime earlier than the endgame slides), make the brutally pragmatic choices the only one that will give a good outcome once in a while, and make the good/risky choices actually risky. If there was one thing about the way Loghain is presented that I might change, it would be having more people acknowledge the Orlesian occupation, remembering the brutality of it, having continued distrust against them, and expressing a willingness to try to fight the darkspawn without their help. 

[Addai]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Ah, upgrade wand? Sounds interesting. I think I might get that mod.

I will very likely replay my cannon and do a LP with him on youtube. ( once Phaonica finishes her mod ).

I use it a lot, I admit.  It comes with a Requirement Removal wand so you could potentially wear tier 7 from the beginning of the game.  I usually level things along with my character, though.

I was surprised looking on YouTube that there weren't more videos of Loghain's companion dialogues.  I might make some.  I'm bored, what can I say.    His dialogues about Anora, Maric and Gwaren are interesting.  I was struck by the fact that he says he didn't do it for Ferelden, he did it for Maric.  Context shows that he's talking about the civil war.

[Morwen Eledhwen]

Addai67 wrote...
 I was struck by the fact that he says he didn't do it for Ferelden, he did it for Maric.  Context shows that he's talking about the civil war.

That matches with his in-battle outbursts, which also struck me. . .it seems both right and yet sad, that Maric can still be in his thoughts and driving his actions that much above anyone or anything else.

[Addai]

Elhanan wrote...

Open inquiry to the Loghain League: Are you content for the most part of having most of the personal insights revealved after the Landsmeet, or would have small reveals along the way influencing the Landsmeet outcome been more favorable? Thanks!

I don't have a lot of thoughts on this, only that it would be easier if joining the Grey Wardens was more like taking the black in Song of Ice and Fire.   So the Landsmeet choice would seem less like a choice between cake or death.  As it is, Wardens are sort of freelance and can goof off all they want, so even though it really is a dire thing to take in the taint etc., it doesn't seem like much of a lifestyle change.

Modifié par Addai67, 15 novembre 2010 - 04:59 .

[Addai]

Morwen Eledhwen wrote...

Addai67 wrote...
 I was struck by the fact that he says he didn't do it for Ferelden, he did it for Maric.  Context shows that he's talking about the civil war.

That matches with his in-battle outbursts, which also struck me. . .it seems both right and yet sad, that Maric can still be in his thoughts and driving his actions that much above anyone or anything else.

The way I interpret it is that he is much more driven by love of a few people than an abstract patriotism.  It's touching, I think.  It could be part of why he's so adamant, though.

[Morwen Eledhwen]

Addai67 wrote...

Morwen Eledhwen wrote...

Addai67 wrote...
 I was struck by the fact that he says he didn't do it for Ferelden, he did it for Maric.  Context shows that he's talking about the civil war.

That matches with his in-battle outbursts, which also struck me. . .it seems both right and yet sad, that Maric can still be in his thoughts and driving his actions that much above anyone or anything else.

The way I interpret it is that he is much more driven by love of a few people than an abstract patriotism.  It's touching, I think.  It could be part of why he's so adamant, though.

Well, I think that along with the personal attachment, Maric embodies his feelings of patriotism and his idea of the Ferelden he saved and would still fight for. But the fact that it is embodied in a beloved person and not an abstract concept, while touching, is still sad. It either speaks to Loghain's inability to see as much to love in a living person as he once did, or the fact that he has simply not met anyone else worthy of it in that long.

[KnightofPhoenix]

I am going to need mod recommendations when I get my new PC
Hope you don't mind me inquiring here when the time comes.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 15 novembre 2010 - 05:11 .

[CalJones]

I'm right there with you. I guess you'll be wanting the Morrigan Restoration mod.



Re: Loghain - I don't think I can add anything that hasn't already said, other than to echo disappointment with the lack of Loghain content in the game. For such an important (and awesome) character, he doesn't get enough screentime.

[Addai]

mousestalker wrote...

I'm away from my gaming computer. What is the 'slander quest' and what's the dialogue associated with it? That sounds intriguing.

I'm interested in this, too.

[phaonica]

Addai67 wrote...

mousestalker wrote...

I'm away from my gaming computer. What is the 'slander quest' and what's the dialogue associated with it? That sounds intriguing.

I'm interested in this, too.

I think this is the dialog that was referred to: DAO Renold the Propagandist

[Addai]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...
There is alot more regarding him, and all we have is speculation because the developers dropped the ball.

And @ Persephone.

Yep, 100% in agreement. If you think about it, the entire game reeks of sloppiness. All the writing concerning warfare, the military, tactics, specifically post Landsmeet is laughable (the entire fantasy genre is never able to show us war as it truly is).

This is really difficult.  Not only are most writers laymen writing for a general audience, making it a story rather than a dry report is tough.  If anything should be sacrificed, it should probably be nerdy bits in favor of the story, don't you think?  Even though I love nerdy bits...

Do you have any writers you like who write military fiction?  GRRM does a great job of it, I think.  He really makes such things come alive.  I've also read some Steven Pressfield, who is good but more on the encyclopedic side.

Modifié par Addai67, 15 novembre 2010 - 06:21 .

[mousestalker]

Have you tried Lois McMaster Bujold? She has written military scifi (MIles Vorkosigan books) as well as fantasy (Curse of Chalion and Paladin of Souls).

[mousestalker]

phaonica wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

mousestalker wrote...

I'm away from my gaming computer. What is the 'slander quest' and what's the dialogue associated with it? That sounds intriguing.

I'm interested in this, too.

I think this is the dialog that was referred to: DAO Renold the Propagandist

Thank you. That's interesting alright.