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Why Teyrn Loghain is the deepest character in Dragon Age


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#5676
DragonRacer13

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So, I just got my most recent issue of Game Informer in the mail today, and Loghain has now been proven (journalistically) to be the deepest character in Dragon Age. They have done a rather large center-spread article on the 30 characters they feel have defined the last decade of gaming... and out of ALL the DAO characters, our one-and-only Loghain was the ONLY character from the game who was selected... and in the Top Ten to boot (#9)!

Here's the little blurb they wrote:

# 9 - Loghain Mac Tir (Dragon Age: Origins)

Most video game villains have a cartoonishly fiendish endgame. A nemesis trying to open a portal to Hell or eradicate existence certainly keeps the stakes high, but only the most maniacal and unhinged opponents could desire such an outcome. While these kind of moustache-twirling antics are commonplace, they don't give rise to believable villains. BioWare ditched the outlandish plots for world domination when creating Loghain, instead opting for layers of history and tragedy that make Dragon Age: Origins' main antagonist memorable and sympathetic.

When Loghain withdraws from the Battle of Ostagar and leaves King Cailan to die on the battlefield, one can't help but see him as a sinister turncoat. In the early stages of the game, players envision a final confrontation in which the usurper receives a bloody comeuppance. However, by the time the critical moment arrives, the Grey Warden has learned that all of Loghain's actions do not spring from a well of evil intent; he is a patriot first and foremost.

Over 30 years before Dragon Age: Origins begins, Ferelden was ruled by the tyranny of the nearby nation of Orlais. Loghain led the army that drove out the Orlesians and won back Ferelden's independence, cementing his reputation as a brilliant military strategist and a living legend. Though victorious, the experience left him damaged; he sees plots against his homeland everywhere, and his paranoia leads him to believe a new invasion from Orlais is imminent. Everything he does, from abandoning Cailan to eradicating the Grey Wardens (who he thinks are spies), he does in the name of keeping the people of his nation secure. You may not agree wit his methods, but it's difficult to condemn his goal.

A typical climatic encounter at the end of an RPG doesn't have room for sympathy. You just expect good to triumph over evil. In reality, things aren't that simple. No one sees themselves as evil, since people's actions are chosen based on context and personal motivations. By tapping into this notion with Loghain, BioWare made a multifaceted villain who was surprisingly hard to hate, despite all the blood on his hands.

Image IPB

And on a completely random note, I finally had a Loghain dream last night... and it was about the oddest, most unexpected thing ever. Addai goes and gets a cool dream that sparks a fanfic, and I get one where Loghain apparently files a restraining order against me. Seriously. And I'm trying to hold a conversation with him (in my defense against said restraining order) by screaming from 20 feet away (or whatever the distance is required due to said restraining order).

Oh, it was odd and hilarious. Woke up quite confused. Then again, my muse has sat atop my brain these past few days and demanded I write a chapter RIGHT NOW that is far into the future of my fic. And it is a most unpleasant chapter for poor Loghain. So, I guess I really can't blame the poor sod for wanting to file a restraining order against me. If someone else was writing that kind of torment about me, I might file a restraining order against them, too. Image IPB

#5677
Giggles_Manically

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Thats awesome!



Last week my history prof was late and I found that my Ancient Mediterranean class has lots of gamers.

Including some who play dragon age.



We talked about it while waiting and out of the six or so who were gamers only one liked Loghain, and we talked for a good half hour about the ending choices once. I did convince someone to see the Loghain Redeemer ending though!



However one of them threw the wall of insults at me:

OMG YOU MONSTER!

YOU HATE ALISTAIR!

LOGHAIN IS BAD!

HOW COULD YOU FORGIVE OSTAGAR!



Real life Loghain hate is funny.

#5678
bleetman

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Sparing Loghain generally causes Alistair to survive. Killing Loghain has a 1 in 3 chance of causing Alistair to die too, depending on the warden's relationship with him.

So yes, it's all about the Alistair hate. Mmhrm.

Modifié par bleetman, 17 novembre 2010 - 02:43 .


#5679
Giggles_Manically

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Well:

Spared Loghain: Alistair is King, Exiled, or Dead

Dead Loghain: Alistair is King, Dead(WC ending), or Warden.



So there is a 1/3 chance in each that he dies before the end.

#5680
TJPags

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Why do people think that those who don't like Loghain must like Alistair?

I can't take either of them . .  .wish I could execute Alistair too.  Image IPB

Or is that just me?  Image IPB

#5681
Sarah1281

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TJPags wrote...

Why do people think that those who don't like Loghain must like Alistair?

I can't take either of them . .  .wish I could execute Alistair too.  Image IPB

Or is that just me?  Image IPB

You can end the game with both of them dead, of course. You just have to decide which one you'd rather get to die a hero.

#5682
Giggles_Manically

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It got nasty though.
He said that sparing Loghain was THE worst thing you can do.

When I countered with:
Selling out Shianni he didnt even know what I meant since he was one of those people who ONLY play Human Nobles.

Modifié par Giggles_Manically, 17 novembre 2010 - 02:51 .


#5683
bleetman

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Giggles_Manically wrote...

Well:
Spared Loghain: Alistair is King, Exiled, or Dead
Dead Loghain: Alistair is King, Dead(WC ending), or Warden.

So there is a 1/3 chance in each that he dies before the end.


I suppose, though  I didn't count Anora having him executed since that's dependant on him not being king, rather than Loghain's status. She tried it after I decapitated Loghain and made her sole queen that one time, anyway.

#5684
Sarah1281

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bleetman wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Well:
Spared Loghain: Alistair is King, Exiled, or Dead
Dead Loghain: Alistair is King, Dead(WC ending), or Warden.

So there is a 1/3 chance in each that he dies before the end.


I suppose, though  I didn't count Anora having him executed since that's dependant on him not being king, rather than Loghain's status. She tried it after I decapitated Loghain and made her sole queen that one time, anyway.

It's also dependent on Alistair's hardened status because if he's unhardened he won't take the throne with a live Loghain.

Modifié par Sarah1281, 17 novembre 2010 - 02:55 .


#5685
KnightofPhoenix

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@ DragonRacer.

Great find! Can you post the link please?

#5686
phaonica

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DragonRacer13 wrote...

So, I just got my most recent issue of Game Informer in the mail today, and Loghain has now been proven (journalistically) to be the deepest character in Dragon Age. They have done a rather large center-spread article on the 30 characters they feel have defined the last decade of gaming... and out of ALL the DAO characters, our one-and-only Loghain was the ONLY character from the game who was selected... and in the Top Ten to boot (#9)!
Image IPB 


 Image IPBOut of 30 top characters, he's 9? Image IPB Out of characters that have "defined the last decade of gaming"? Image IPBSquee! That's awesome.Image IPB

And on a completely random note, I finally had a Loghain dream last night... and it was about the oddest, most unexpected thing ever. Addai goes and gets a cool dream that sparks a fanfic, and I get one where Loghain apparently files a restraining order against me. Seriously. And I'm trying to hold a conversation with him (in my defense against said restraining order) by screaming from 20 feet away (or whatever the distance is required due to said restraining order).



Image IPB Haha! Sorry, but that's pretty funny. Image IPB

#5687
Addai

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DragonRacer13 wrote...

So, I just got my most recent issue of Game Informer in the mail today, and Loghain has now been proven (journalistically) to be the deepest character in Dragon Age. They have done a rather large center-spread article on the 30 characters they feel have defined the last decade of gaming... and out of ALL the DAO characters, our one-and-only Loghain was the ONLY character from the game who was selected... and in the Top Ten to boot (#9)!

Wow that's something. Kudos to David Gaider and Mary Kirby for making such a memorable character.

And on a completely random note, I finally had a Loghain dream last night... and it was about the oddest, most unexpected thing ever. Addai goes and gets a cool dream that sparks a fanfic, and I get one where Loghain apparently files a restraining order against me. Seriously. And I'm trying to hold a conversation with him (in my defense against said restraining order) by screaming from 20 feet away (or whatever the distance is required due to said restraining order).

LOL!  This is hilarious.  I'm sure if these characters actually existed, there's a good chance they would put a restraining order out on their fangirls.  Loghain especially.  Cailan probably wouldn't, of course.  OMG, that's too funny.

Modifié par Addai67, 17 novembre 2010 - 03:11 .


#5688
phaonica

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It sounds like an interesting article. I didn't find the article itself, but there's an article about the article here:
December Cover Revealed - News - GameInformer.com

I might have to go out and buy this issue. That looks like Loghain next to Kratos. Awesome.
Image IPB

#5689
Addai

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So we think this is him, right?  Looks like him!  It reminds me of the TST cover only obviously aged forward.  Cool artwork.

Image IPB

Drat, we are supposed to be getting Game Informer now but I don't know if I had to activate the subscription or what because we haven't gotten it.

Modifié par Addai67, 17 novembre 2010 - 03:28 .


#5690
phaonica

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Addai67 wrote...

So we think this is him, right?


I think so. I recognize nearly all of the characters in the full spread, and that looks like the River Dane armor to me.

#5691
Addai

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Yeah, I looked at the entire spread and even though I don't know most of them, none of the other figures fit. I'm sure that's him.

#5692
Morwen Eledhwen

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Has to be. I notice that Auron from FFX has also made the cover, which makes me happy.

#5693
KnightofPhoenix

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Ha, the Illusive Man is in there. Excellent.

What rank did he get?

#5694
Zjarcal

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Master Chief being it does not make me happy though. Same goes for that kid from Psychonauts.



I am surprised they would include Captain Price from Call of Duty.

#5695
Persephone

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Giggles_Manically wrote...

Thats awesome!

Last week my history prof was late and I found that my Ancient Mediterranean class has lots of gamers.
Including some who play dragon age.

We talked about it while waiting and out of the six or so who were gamers only one liked Loghain, and we talked for a good half hour about the ending choices once. I did convince someone to see the Loghain Redeemer ending though!

However one of them threw the wall of insults at me:
OMG YOU MONSTER!
YOU HATE ALISTAIR!
LOGHAIN IS BAD!
HOW COULD YOU FORGIVE OSTAGAR!

Real life Loghain hate is funny.


Awesome indeed. I'm not really surprised though, heh! :wizard::wizard:

Oddly enough, most my RL friends adore Loghain. Cailan gave them a headache and while they thought Alistair was cute and funny for 5 minutes, they were glad to recruit Loghain the second he became available. :lol::lol:

#5696
Persephone

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Sarah1281 wrote...

bleetman wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Well:
Spared Loghain: Alistair is King, Exiled, or Dead
Dead Loghain: Alistair is King, Dead(WC ending), or Warden.

So there is a 1/3 chance in each that he dies before the end.


I suppose, though  I didn't count Anora having him executed since that's dependant on him not being king, rather than Loghain's status. She tried it after I decapitated Loghain and made her sole queen that one time, anyway.

It's also dependent on Alistair's hardened status because if he's unhardened he won't take the throne with a live Loghain.


Hmmmmmmmmmmm............he sure tried it the last time (Playthrough I did to get my Canon "Drunk Alistair" ending) , if with a lot less conviction.

#5697
Persephone

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A screenshot depicting the scenario of Ch 8, Selena's funeral. (Yes, it's from RTO^^)

Image IPB

#5698
Sarah1281

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Persephone wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

bleetman wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Well:
Spared Loghain: Alistair is King, Exiled, or Dead
Dead Loghain: Alistair is King, Dead(WC ending), or Warden.

So there is a 1/3 chance in each that he dies before the end.


I suppose, though  I didn't count Anora having him executed since that's dependant on him not being king, rather than Loghain's status. She tried it after I decapitated Loghain and made her sole queen that one time, anyway.

It's also dependent on Alistair's hardened status because if he's unhardened he won't take the throne with a live Loghain.


Hmmmmmmmmmmm............he sure tried it the last time (Playthrough I did to get my Canon "Drunk Alistair" ending) , if with a lot less conviction.

You mean when you decided to spare Loghain and Alistair is all 'I didn't want to but to kill Loghain I'll be king'? That wasn't what I was talking about. I was referring to the fact that once the final decision is made to spare Loghain then Alistair will not marry Anora and be king unless he is hardened.

#5699
Persephone

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Sarah1281 wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

bleetman wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Well:
Spared Loghain: Alistair is King, Exiled, or Dead
Dead Loghain: Alistair is King, Dead(WC ending), or Warden.

So there is a 1/3 chance in each that he dies before the end.


I suppose, though  I didn't count Anora having him executed since that's dependant on him not being king, rather than Loghain's status. She tried it after I decapitated Loghain and made her sole queen that one time, anyway.

It's also dependent on Alistair's hardened status because if he's unhardened he won't take the throne with a live Loghain.


Hmmmmmmmmmmm............he sure tried it the last time (Playthrough I did to get my Canon "Drunk Alistair" ending) , if with a lot less conviction.

You mean when you decided to spare Loghain and Alistair is all 'I didn't want to but to kill Loghain I'll be king'? That wasn't what I was talking about. I was referring to the fact that once the final decision is made to spare Loghain then Alistair will not marry Anora and be king unless he is hardened.


Ah, gotcha. :happy:

#5700
Giggles_Manically

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What the hell!

There is no Gordon Freeman on the cover.



Yet TIM gets on where the Freeman dosen't.

Shame on Game Informer.