Sarah1281 wrote...
Because they aren't looking to have Ferelden BE England.Ferelden is similar to England in several ways, but why not constitutionally?
Indeed, poor Anora... but what would I give to see such books. :innocent:Persephone wrote...
This is just PERFECTION.Poor Anora. That must be VERY frustrating.
:innocent:
Modifié par alschemid, 03 décembre 2010 - 06:00 .
Wereparrot wrote...
John Beaufort, first Earl of Somerset, was indeed the first of four illegitimate children of John of Gaunt and Katherine Swinford, yet Henry IV (the first Tudor), was born of John's first wife, Blanche of Lancaster, and legitimate.
Modifié par Wulfram, 03 décembre 2010 - 05:58 .
Wulfram wrote...
Wereparrot wrote...
John Beaufort, first Earl of Somerset, was indeed the first of four illegitimate children of John of Gaunt and Katherine Swinford, yet Henry IV (the first Tudor), was born of John's first wife, Blanche of Lancaster, and legitimate.
Henry IV was a Lancastrian and a Plantagenet. Henry VII was the first tudor King, and his claim was based on his descent from the Beauforts
A bastard inheriting after the extinction of the legitimate line is pretty reasonable. I find the throne being inherited through marriage more unlikely in real world terms - though it did happen in Cyprus, mostly I think as a pretext for the Venetians to annex the place.
Modifié par Wereparrot, 03 décembre 2010 - 08:45 .
Esbatty wrote...
I can't stop seeing him dancing.CalJones wrote...
I can't see Loghain dancing.
♪What is love? Baby don't hurt me... don't hurt me... no more.♫
the new Aimo strip. Heeeeelarious!)
We're writing them! Just not with the racy illustrations.alschemid wrote...
Indeed, poor Anora... but what would I give to see such books. :innocent:Persephone wrote...
This is just PERFECTION.
Edit: and YAY!! 250 pages already!!We should have a party or something.
The Wardens are not the only factor, rather the Bannorn and the others opposing Loghain's regency.Wereparrot wrote...
I've said before in the DA2 forum that I think Loghain's villany was superflous, and I stand by it for two reasons:
1. The assumption that the Warden wants to put Maric's bastard son on the throne. Bastards have not inherited the throne in any kingdom. This is a plot hole you could sail an oil tanker through if you ask me, especially since, once Alastair is king, he then turns all conservative and has to marry a noble. How ironic that in the real world these customs are reversed. Ferelden is similar to England in several ways, but why not constitutionally?
2. Loghain assumed that the Warden would go running to Orlais for support. He had no evidence to suggest and should have been working with the Warden in this respect.
If his only crime was arrogance, he could expect and recieve mercy; but his dissertion and treason at Ostagar suggest otherwise. It is to his credit that he does not deny his punishment.
Addai67 wrote...
The Wardens are not the only factor, rather the Bannorn and the others opposing Loghain's regency.Wereparrot wrote...
I've said before in the DA2 forum that I think Loghain's villany was superflous, and I stand by it for two reasons:
1. The assumption that the Warden wants to put Maric's bastard son on the throne. Bastards have not inherited the throne in any kingdom. This is a plot hole you could sail an oil tanker through if you ask me, especially since, once Alastair is king, he then turns all conservative and has to marry a noble. How ironic that in the real world these customs are reversed. Ferelden is similar to England in several ways, but why not constitutionally?
2. Loghain assumed that the Warden would go running to Orlais for support. He had no evidence to suggest and should have been working with the Warden in this respect.
If his only crime was arrogance, he could expect and recieve mercy; but his dissertion and treason at Ostagar suggest otherwise. It is to his credit that he does not deny his punishment.
The issue is also not the Warden running to Orlais for support, but Orlesian chevaliers already massing at the border at the start of Origins in response to Cailan's invitation.
As for bastards inheriting, as Eamon says in-game, if they had any other choice they wouldn't even try. As it is, you have the widow of the late king without royal blood, or the untried bastard son. Sounds like a pretty even match-up to me and therefore plausible as a conflict set-up.
Modifié par Wereparrot, 03 décembre 2010 - 08:53 .
The point is that the Orlesians are there, which helps provoke Loghain's march back to Denerim and his seizure of the regency, setting up the civil war that the Warden then has to mediate/ bring to an end.Wereparrot wrote...
The Warden did not invite the Orlesians. And it seems to me the choice was already made; like I said, I'm pretty sure that with no heir and no blood relative; in the event of the monarchs death, the spouse rules.
Addai67 wrote...
The point is that the Orlesians are there, which helps provoke Loghain's march back to Denerim and his seizure of the regency, setting up the civil war that the Warden then has to mediate/ bring to an end.Wereparrot wrote...
The Warden did not invite the Orlesians. And it seems to me the choice was already made; like I said, I'm pretty sure that with no heir and no blood relative; in the event of the monarchs death, the spouse rules.
Queen Anora was not a ruling monarch, just a consort. If there had been a legitimate Landsmeet at the beginning, before a challenge could be brought, she probably would have been confirmed. As it is, there IS a blood relative to Maric, and there is a challenge to Anora's bid.
It doesn't if the Landsmeet chooses to legitimize him. Regardless of what Ferelden may be based off of, the Landsmeet clearly has the power to acknowledge a bastard and, in doing so, legitimize him since they totally do just that and even the opposition doesn't claim that the Landsmeet can't do that. Even his bastard status isn't brought up as much as the fact that there's no proof he's Maric's, he wasn't trained to do this, he'd be a weak king, he's being put up as a puppet ruler, ect.Wereparrot wrote...
Addai67 wrote...
The point is that the Orlesians are there, which helps provoke Loghain's march back to Denerim and his seizure of the regency, setting up the civil war that the Warden then has to mediate/ bring to an end.Wereparrot wrote...
The Warden did not invite the Orlesians. And it seems to me the choice was already made; like I said, I'm pretty sure that with no heir and no blood relative; in the event of the monarchs death, the spouse rules.
Queen Anora was not a ruling monarch, just a consort. If there had been a legitimate Landsmeet at the beginning, before a challenge could be brought, she probably would have been confirmed. As it is, there IS a blood relative to Maric, and there is a challenge to Anora's bid.
I have already argued that Alastairs illegitimate nature prevents him from becoming king.
You may have argued this, but you have no basis to do so. The monarch is chosen by the Landsmeet, whether he or she is "legitimate" or not. Ferelden's monarch derives his power from the freeholders, not the other way around.Wereparrot wrote...
Addai67 wrote...
The point is that the Orlesians are there, which helps provoke Loghain's march back to Denerim and his seizure of the regency, setting up the civil war that the Warden then has to mediate/ bring to an end.Wereparrot wrote...
The Warden did not invite the Orlesians. And it seems to me the choice was already made; like I said, I'm pretty sure that with no heir and no blood relative; in the event of the monarchs death, the spouse rules.
Queen Anora was not a ruling monarch, just a consort. If there had been a legitimate Landsmeet at the beginning, before a challenge could be brought, she probably would have been confirmed. As it is, there IS a blood relative to Maric, and there is a challenge to Anora's bid.
I have already argued that Alastairs illegitimate nature prevents him from becoming king.
Sarah1281 wrote...
It doesn't if the Landsmeet chooses to legitimize him. Regardless of what Ferelden may be based off of, the Landsmeet clearly has the power to acknowledge a bastard and, in doing so, legitimize him since they totally do just that and even the opposition doesn't claim that the Landsmeet can't do that. Even his bastard status isn't brought up as much as the fact that there's no proof he's Maric's, he wasn't trained to do this, he'd be a weak king, he's being put up as a puppet ruler, ect.Wereparrot wrote...
Addai67 wrote...
The point is that the Orlesians are there, which helps provoke Loghain's march back to Denerim and his seizure of the regency, setting up the civil war that the Warden then has to mediate/ bring to an end.Wereparrot wrote...
The Warden did not invite the Orlesians. And it seems to me the choice was already made; like I said, I'm pretty sure that with no heir and no blood relative; in the event of the monarchs death, the spouse rules.
Queen Anora was not a ruling monarch, just a consort. If there had been a legitimate Landsmeet at the beginning, before a challenge could be brought, she probably would have been confirmed. As it is, there IS a blood relative to Maric, and there is a challenge to Anora's bid.
I have already argued that Alastairs illegitimate nature prevents him from becoming king.
Addai67 wrote...
You may have argued this, but you have no basis to do so. The monarch is chosen by the Landsmeet, whether he or she is "legitimate" or not. Ferelden's monarch derives his power from the freeholders, not the other way around.Wereparrot wrote...
Addai67 wrote...
The point is that the Orlesians are there, which helps provoke Loghain's march back to Denerim and his seizure of the regency, setting up the civil war that the Warden then has to mediate/ bring to an end.Wereparrot wrote...
The Warden did not invite the Orlesians. And it seems to me the choice was already made; like I said, I'm pretty sure that with no heir and no blood relative; in the event of the monarchs death, the spouse rules.
Queen Anora was not a ruling monarch, just a consort. If there had been a legitimate Landsmeet at the beginning, before a challenge could be brought, she probably would have been confirmed. As it is, there IS a blood relative to Maric, and there is a challenge to Anora's bid.
I have already argued that Alastairs illegitimate nature prevents him from becoming king.
Eamon has his reasons. You don't have to side with him in the end, but no, even though the Landsmeet defers to the Warden, the authority still lies in them.Wereparrot wrote...
The ultimate decision lies not with the Landsmeet, but with you. And all I am saying is that I resent Arl Eamon pressuring to accept a bastard as king. And also, you must understand that I am not criticising the Landsmeet; I am criticising Bioware's attention to detail. And no I don't thing everything in a game should be based on reality, because all games are fantasies of the creators, yet I still think that since Bioware clearly based Ferelden on medieval England the constitution of the monarchy should be similar to that of its real world counterpart, in fact any monarchy that I can think of.
Modifié par Addai67, 03 décembre 2010 - 09:19 .
Addai67 wrote...
Eamon has his reasons. You don't have to side with him in the end, but no, even though the Landsmeet defers to the Warden, the authority still lies in them.Wereparrot wrote...
The ultimate decision lies not with the Landsmeet, but with you. And all I am saying is that I resent Arl Eamon pressuring to accept a bastard as king. And also, you must understand that I am not criticising the Landsmeet; I am criticising Bioware's attention to detail. And no I don't thing everything in a game should be based on reality, because all games are fantasies of the creators, yet I still think that since Bioware clearly based Ferelden on medieval England the constitution of the monarchy should be similar to that of its real world counterpart, in fact any monarchy that I can think of.
If what you're asking is why we can't side with Loghain rather than Eamon from the beginning, I guess my question back would be: Why should Loghain work with you? The Warden only becomes a political force after you've gathered your armies and have a nobleman sponsoring your challenge to Loghain's regency. And as Eamon says, he needs a challenge that Loghain can't ignore. Maric's son is that challenge.
Ferelden is only loosely based on medieval Britain. In fact I've heard it actually compared to medieval Scotland, but with many Germanic elements in it as well. Historical bits are only used as inspiration, there is no one to one correlation.
Modifié par Wereparrot, 03 décembre 2010 - 09:27 .
Wulfram wrote...
Howe would block any deals between Loghain and a Cousland, even if Loghain wasn't convinced that the wardens were Orlesian puppets.
Wereparrot wrote...
Wulfram wrote...
Howe would block any deals between Loghain and a Cousland, even if Loghain wasn't convinced that the wardens were Orlesian puppets.
Howe's voice would be irrelevant in the face of two higher nobles.
Arl=Earl
Teryn=Duke
Wulfram wrote...
Wereparrot wrote...
Wulfram wrote...
Howe would block any deals between Loghain and a Cousland, even if Loghain wasn't convinced that the wardens were Orlesian puppets.
Howe's voice would be irrelevant in the face of two higher nobles.
Arl=Earl
Teryn=Duke
Howe has control of Highever and a considerable armed force under his control, while Cousland is an outlaw.
Plus Loghain for some bizarre reason seems to rely on and even trust Howe
Your political clout as a Cousland is vastly diminished as of game time. You're the youngest child of a family that's been discredited as traitors and whose armies have been wiped out. Howe occupies Highever, and without an army to challenge him you can only win back your teyrnir if the Landsmeet discredits him and renews it. Even Cailan says that he needs an army to uproot Howe. That's why Loghain confirms Howe as the new teyrn of Highever. He really has no choice if he wants his military support.Wereparrot wrote...
Well, if I play as a human noble, I am a political force anyway after the death of Bryce and unknown status (at that point) of Fergus. I, as acting Teryn of Highever, dispute Alistair's claim on the aforementioned basis.
Loghain should at least try to figure me out because I am an unknown quantity.
And I don't care if it is loosely based on the Faroe Islands; the issue would be the same.
Addai67 wrote...
Your political clout as a Cousland is vastly diminished as of game time. You're the youngest child of a family that's been discredited as traitors and whose armies have been wiped out. Howe occupies Highever, and without an army to challenge him you can only win back your teyrnir if the Landsmeet discredits him and renews it. Even Cailan says that he needs an army to uproot Howe. That's why Loghain confirms Howe as the new teyrn of Highever. He really has no choice if he wants his military support.Wereparrot wrote...
Well, if I play as a human noble, I am a political force anyway after the death of Bryce and unknown status (at that point) of Fergus. I, as acting Teryn of Highever, dispute Alistair's claim on the aforementioned basis.
Loghain should at least try to figure me out because I am an unknown quantity.
And I don't care if it is loosely based on the Faroe Islands; the issue would be the same.
Loghain doesn't think you're an unknown quantity. He has had dealings with the Grey Wardens before (in The Calling), and they weren't positive ones. Plus, the Wardens are his scapegoats of choice after Ostagar and so he has absolutely no reason to deal with you.
Even if he did, with a son of Maric still alive, Eamon could still bring his challenge (assuming he gets revived). The lore is what it is. The lore says that a bastard can inherit if the Landsmeet approves. The Theirin dynasty is important enough to Ferelden that some people want to preserve it whether the heir is a legitimate one or not.
Yeah, no you're not. Maybe you SHOULD be but Howe conquered Highever by force and took the teynir, thus it has to be restored to you at the coronation. Your only political support are vague 'Hey, we'll help you become a Teyrn again once the Blight is over' and as the Blight isn't over, it's not your teynir anymore.I, as acting Teryn of Highever, dispute Alistair's claim on the aforementioned basis.
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