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[nos_astra]

Sarah1281 wrote...

klarabella wrote...
The Grey Wardens couldn't care less about what Queen Anora wants.

No? Queen Anora gives Amaranthine to the GWs as a reward for stopping the Blight but since the GWs having land like that has never been done before you would think that the First Warden would be far more interested in the GWs having Amaranthine and setting a precedent than Anora would be in giving an Arling to them. I think Anora must quietly agree that she needs her father out of her way politically because it's not like she has no leverage to use against them.

So you say transferring Loghain to Orlais is a mutual agreement?

I can see that.

[Wulfram]

Having Loghain hanging around would be very awkward for Anora, I'd think. He used her as a puppet, she allied with his deadly enemies to bring him down. Everyone would be waiting for signs of conflict between them.

[CalJones]

I doubt that. There's some cut dialogue where Loghain expresses pride in Anora.



Anora and Loghain at Redcliffe

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

He also expresses pride and confidence in Anora when you speak to him after recruiting him, and doesn't seem to begrudge her for turning against him in Landsmeet. They might disagree on a few things, but I really don't see any major conflict between the two. Loghain knows he was wrong in his choices and descisions, and is actually rather relieved to be removed from a position of political power.



He knows Anora's primary concern is the greater good for Ferelden. While they might disagree on how best to implement this, Loghain believes in Anora's strength and capability to rule ferelden wisely.

[Sarah1281]

Loghain's pride in Anora could easily translate to knowing that having him out of the way would make things easier for her which is why he doesn't seem particularly upset to be transferred to Orlais of all places. Anora may love her father but it's not like he's getting himself killed or imprisoned and she has shown an ability to put her position as Ferelden's queen above her love for her father. If she really didn't need him around in the post-Blight world (which I feel that she doesn't) or she doesn't think he can stop himself from interfering (which Loghain himself admits to) then I don't see why she wouldn't be on-board with a plan to get him out of the way.

[Costin_Razvan]

Addai67 wrote...

Ugh... this again. *joins KoP and Costin at the bar*

You really want to join in our little discussion about world domination while we sip our drinks just as TIM does?

"Chuckle".

[Addai]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Ugh... this again. *joins KoP and Costin at the bar*

You really want to join in our little discussion about world domination while we sip our drinks just as TIM does?

"Chuckle".

I can bask in your malevolence!

Oh, o/t:  Loghain being posted to Montsimmard probably is better politically for Anora.  He would be a liability at this point, or at least complicated.  I just really wonder what daily life would be like for him there.  Not like the Orlesians like him any more than he likes them.

Modifié par Addai67, 09 décembre 2010 - 08:22 .

[Wulfram]

Do the Orlesians dislike him? Leliana says that Maric at least is seen as a dashing rebel prince.

[Addai]

He was the commanding general that defeated their occupation. I seem to recall some dialogue, though I can't remember if it was in The Calling or in game, about "oh yes we know who you are, Hero of River Dane".

[Wulfram]

Here's what Leliana says about Maric



# Leliana: Do you think they do not admire Maric in Orlais? Because they do. There is nothing like a dashing rebel prince to capture the imagination, you know.

# Loghain: Even when he rebels against you?

# Leliana: Especially then. It makes him roguish. Much more romantic. And if he must face overwhelming numbers of Chevaliers with only a few untrained farmers? Then he's even more valiant.



The same would apply to Loghain himself, I'd have thought. There may be a fair few Chevaliers who'd like the opportunity to prove themselves against one of their greatest adversaries, but I don't see much reason for them to dislike him. Ferelden never occupied Orlais.

[Addai]

Well, uh... that's Leliana. LOL I cannot imagine that soldiers take quite the same view as the addle-brained nobles she hung around with. There might be some grudging respect of a worthy adversary, but I could also see there being resentment. They showed Orlais up pretty badly.

Modifié par Addai67, 09 décembre 2010 - 09:25 .

[Persephone]

klarabella wrote...

Ollymandias wrote...
Haven't played Awakening yet, but looking forward to it. Loghain gets sent to Orlais? Whose idea was that?? Why does Anora let that happen if she's Queen?

The Grey Wardens couldn't care less about what Queen Anora wants.

Not exactly true, as Duncan has pointed out if you call Cailan an idiot. The Wardens were banished from Ferelden once. So they better not antagonize its ruling queen.

[Persephone]

Addai67 wrote...

He was the commanding general that defeated their occupation. I seem to recall some dialogue, though I can't remember if it was in The Calling or in game, about "oh yes we know who you are, Hero of River Dane".

Warden Commander Genevieve says this, I believe?

[Wulfram]

It's been 30 years. Even if there was some sort of dislike still left over - which I would think would depend on whether they considered Loghain to have fought honourably, rather than because he beat them - it certainly wouldn't be anything like what Loghain feels towards them.
If nothing else, Orlesians aren't afraid of Ferelden taking them over.

The wardens might well hate his guts for Ostagar - and for blaming it on them - though.

Modifié par Wulfram, 09 décembre 2010 - 09:44 .

[nos_astra]

Persephone wrote...
Not exactly true, as Duncan has pointed out if you call Cailan an idiot. The Wardens were banished from Ferelden once. So they better not antagonize its ruling queen.

Ferelden is not in a position to antagonize anyone. Just imagine she would throw the Wardens out, then what? I have a feeling this might offend Orlais and the Anderfels. And Anora does have enemies among the Bannorn, so ...

Modifié par klarabella, 09 décembre 2010 - 09:52 .

[grim_reaper_13]

Well i finished my playthrough with my Human Noble a couple of days ago. I chose to spare Loghain for the first time and had him undertake the Joining. After that i took him to Ostagar to get the gear and everything and i really like his dialogue with Wynne. Its was quite good. I didnt take Morri's offer and let him bite the bullet and it felt right to say the truth.

Overall i would say he is a very good companion and i liked his dialogue quite a bit. What i would have really liked would have been to bring him when you kill that dick Howe..... Well i can dream .

[Sarah1281]

Was Ferelden in a position to antagonize anyone when they first threw the Wardens out? There didn't appear to be any consequences for that. The Order and everyone else just kind of accepted it. I don't see why they'd go to war to insist that Wardens could have a presence in Ferelden. If nothing else, the other nations might not be thrilled at having Wardens forced upon them in case they should ever decide not to want Wardens with them. Besides, Ferelden is absolutely in a position to NOT give them an unprecedented position of power by granting them an Arling.

[CalJones]

@grim_reaper - I'm not sure Loghain would have gone for killing Howe, but it certainly would have been interesting to hear what he thought of Anora's imprisonment and the contents of the dungeon.

[Persephone]

klarabella wrote...

Persephone wrote...
Not exactly true, as Duncan has pointed out if you call Cailan an idiot. The Wardens were banished from Ferelden once. So they better not antagonize its ruling queen.

Ferelden is not in a position to antagonize anyone. Just imagine she would throw the Wardens out, then what? I have a feeling this might offend Orlais and the Anderfels. And Anora does have enemies among the Bannorn, so ...

So much for the Wardens' neutrality. And Orlais or the Anderfels has more important things to worry about. They difn't care during a Blight, so why now? 

[Addai]

klarabella wrote...

Persephone wrote...
Not exactly true, as Duncan has pointed out if you call Cailan an idiot. The Wardens were banished from Ferelden once. So they better not antagonize its ruling queen.

Ferelden is not in a position to antagonize anyone. Just imagine she would throw the Wardens out, then what? I have a feeling this might offend Orlais and the Anderfels. And Anora does have enemies among the Bannorn, so ...

Who cares about Orlais and the Anderfels?  The First Warden has no influence in Ferelden at all or he wouldn't be nosing around Amaranthine.  Orlais, they have bigger problems with Ferelden than Wardens.  As long as the darkspawn problem stays in Ferelden, they have nothing to complain about.  Although Anora seems well disposed to the Wardens and even proposes further study of the darkspawn, so it's not really an issue.

I do wish in Awakening that you had the option to tell Mistress Woolsey to sod off.  The First Warden has no business sticking his nose in.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Addai67 wrote...
I do wish in Awakening that you had the option to tell Mistress Woolsey to sod off.  The First Warden has no business sticking his nose in.

I hate this too. Especially since it's Amaranthine, one of the most important and crucial Arlings in the kingdom.
Had the Wardens been given some land in the Bannorn, I wouldn't have cared as much.

Giving Amaranthine to the Grey Wardens is border line idiotic.
But if certain measures and laws are passed (such as the Warden Commander has to be Fereldan, appointed by the Crown and has to swear allegiance), then this could be a useful experiment. Amaranthine would become a province of the kingdom, with its Arl appointed by the Crown.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 10 décembre 2010 - 01:38 .

[Costin_Razvan]

All the more to control the nobility eh Knight?

[tashatush]

 I... I convinced myself that I was going to stay away from the BSN, but...

This thread is far too amazing to resist. Please, allow me to board the Loghain Train, destination: DELICIOUS?

Modifié par tashatush, 10 décembre 2010 - 01:42 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

All the more to control the nobility eh Knight?

Precisely.

Especially if the Crown picks commoner Wardens and not nobles. They would feel less entitled and don't have the same legitimacy to think they are autonomous. 
Plus, it would be a bit meritocratic. The Crown would be able to pick individuals who merit the position (and are loyal) and don't just inherit it.

[KnightofPhoenix]

tashatush wrote...

 I... I convinced myself that I was going to stay away from the BSN, but...

This thread is far too amazing to resist. Please, allow me to board the Loghain Train, destination: DELICIOUS?

You're most welcome.