12857 réponses à ce sujet

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...
 Do they have an agenda for what will become of them after the 7th Blight has ended?

I think the First Warden and Avernus are at least pondering on the future and it's clear the First Warden wants to prove that the Wardens are essential, blight or no as Mistress Woolsey said.

But other than that, I do not think they have a master plan, at least not now. The Wardens remain heavily dependent on their host countries with the exception of the anderfels, which is the poorest nation of Thedas. They are also heavily reliant on stipends and the Anderfels cannot possibily provide for them an economic base for whatever plans they might have.
Of course controlling Amaranthine, a vital sea port in the Waking sea, might rectify or alleviate this.

Too bad for the first Warden, Arcturus is not going to let it happen

Hah, yeah! Arcturus ain't gonna allow some wannabe mastermind in the Anderfells edge in on his own world domination plans!

Both my canons were wary of the First Warden's plan, albeit for different reasons and opinions, but both believed the Wardens had no business in politics. Since they couldn't directly stop his plans, they disrupted them in more subtle ways.

You're right about the Wardens, past and present. I think the First Warden, whoever he is, wants to take the Wardens beyond their currently accepted role. I see possible paralells to the Knights Templar. An organization that started out poor and living off the donations and charity of host nations and the Pope, but ended up racking up an insane amount of power and influence for an order that was supposed to take vows of poverty.

Maybe the Wardens will end up doing something similar, like setting up a banking system. Banking is perhaps the most powerful way to own and rule a country without doing it directly.

[nos_astra]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...
Both my canons were wary of the First Warden's plan, albeit for different reasons and opinions, but both believed the Wardens had no business in politics. Since they couldn't directly stop his plans, they disrupted them in more subtle ways.

So are mine, both support the monarch they have helped to ascend to the throne and interfere subtly with the Wardens' plans.

However, as the player I'm not biased like my characters are. I thought Thedas was Bioware's sandbox, not Ferelden. I can see why Anora put the Wardens in charge there. The country is ruined and dependent on support from other countries for a while, the Wardens have been wronged and it almost destroyed Ferelden, keep your friends close and your enemies closer.

I admit, sometimes I'm a bit overwhelmed by KoP's approach to flatten Thedas with the power of 21st century education, brought in by Arcturo, Loghain and Anora. I doubt, DAO has been written with that much political finesse in mind.

Modifié par klarabella, 10 décembre 2010 - 01:13 .

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Even from my own point of view, I dislike having the Wardens in charge of an arling. I prefer apolitical Wardens myself, as I like the non-national character of the organization, and prefer to be outside and beyond things like national boundaries/nationalistic concerns.



Though one of my Wardens liked the idea of a more politically active organization.

[Addai]

tashatush wrote...

Addai67 wrote...
Ohh, that was the cute "Korcari Wilds" one.  Love that. 

Teehee, thanks! I wanted to draw him being all serious-business with a map, but that, uh... out-of-character sex joke kinda crept its way into the final image... 

Augh, the idea of him being all studious over his maps make me happy! I should do a serious one, for once.

I know nothing about naughty muses taking over respectable thoughts about a grim, studious Loghain!  Whatever are you talking about! 

Glad you de-lurked and braved the BSN Wilds.  We'll look forward to more fanart.  It seems to have slowed down for DAO these days, and there was never enough Loghain or Maric to begin with.

[KnightofPhoenix]

klarabella wrote...
I admit, sometimes I'm a bit overwhelmed by KoP's approach to flatten Thedas with the power of 21st century education, brought in by Arcturo, Loghain and Anora. I doubt, DAO has been written with that much political finesse in mind.

Unfortunately.
Not that I dismiss the view that "might makes right", but Bioware games always end up being just that without any other consideration.
That being said, I don't think any gaming company managed to grasp the subtelty of politics. That would be a boring game except for a very tiny few (me).

[Giggles_Manically]

The Politics and interplay in Morrowind were pretty good.



If a bit.. bizarre. I am so looking at you Mr Curio.

[CalJones]

@ Tasha - rather like the spanking one, myself. Heh.



As for Wardens and politics...yes, actually it does hack me off a little that they are just handed Amaranthine, considering that it's a vassal of Highever. Fair enough if the WC is, in fact, a Cousland, but nonsense otherwise. (I'd rather like to see it go back to Nathaniel and his nephew, ultimately).

[Gaius Octavian]

I've read the Stolen Throne and I still loathe Loghain, it in no way
makes his actions in DA:O acceptable, most of the people who like
Loghain are fangirls (though a small bit of them are not), and they are
even more psychotic then Alistair fangirls.

Loghain is a villian. Plain and simple. Anyone who says otherwise is brainwashed and probably a woman ruled by emotions generated by the novel.

Silly fangirls, "WAAAH BUT LOGHAIN IS A DEEP CHARACTER AND NEEDS LOVEEE AND ATTENTION HURP DURP SQUEEEE".


That being said, I also despise Alistair fangirls.

[KnightofPhoenix]

A pity you have such a good username. What a waste.

[Gaius Octavian]

A pity you're breathing such good air. What a waste. Jump in a hole and bury yourself please.

Modifié par Gaius Octavian, 10 décembre 2010 - 08:52 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Bravo.


Anyways, to bring back some maturity in the thread, a strange hypothetical situation just popped in my head. Say Loghain is recruiting Wardens in Orlais and in one of his errands, he sees Chevaliers trying to take advatange of some peasant. What do you think he would do? Wardens, I presume, are not allowed to interfere in such things, considering that Chevaliers have the "right" to do what they wish. So would he stay out of it like a Warden is supposed to, or would he act to protect the victims, seeing how he personally suffered such a fate? What do you think, active thread participants?

Incidently, can Wardens recruit Chevaliers? They can recruit knights in Ferelden I believe (with their lords permission?), but Chevaiers seem to be more than that and an important pillar for the regime.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 10 décembre 2010 - 08:53 .

[Gaius Octavian]

Durp, yes retard it is called the right of conscription. Apparently you don't understand what that entails. Go watch that sub-par HBO show you are so fond of.

[Giggles_Manically]

I SEE TROLL!
and spies.

Modifié par Giggles_Manically, 10 décembre 2010 - 08:56 .

[Gaius Octavian]

Giggles_Manically wrote...



I SEE TROLL!
and spies.

Beat me to the spies part.

[Addai]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Bravo.


Anyways, to bring back some maturity in the thread, a strange hypothetical situation just popped in my head. Say Loghain is recruiting Wardens in Orlais and in one of his errands, he sees Chevaliers trying to take advatange of some peasant. What do you think he would do? Wardens, I presume, are not allowed to interfere in such things, considering that Chevaliers have the "right" to do what they wish. So would he stay out of it like a Warden is supposed to, or would he act to protect the victims, seeing how he personally suffered such a fate? What do you think, active thread participants?

Incidently, can Wardens recruit Chevaliers? They can recruit knights in Ferelden I believe (with their lords permission?), but Chevaiers seem to be more than that and an important pillar for the regime.

This is why I said I really wonder about his daily life in Orlais.  We don't know a lot about Orlais actually, not about the life of the common people, but it seems there are so many values conflicts that it would be a tough row.  Although I would be fond of seeing Loghain telling a chevalier or high-falutin noble to go jump in a lake. 

Modifié par Addai67, 10 décembre 2010 - 09:03 .

[Giggles_Manically]

For some reason I cant help but shake the notion that Loghain will overthrow Orlais, kill all the Chevaliers, then send a quickly written note to Anora or Anora/Alistair that simply reads:



Dear (Monarch(s))



I have dealt with the Orlesian dogs as best I can, and now plan on taking a very long vacation, since Orlais can no longer bother Fereldan.



PS Send some real food please.

[CalJones]

Wardens might not be allowed to interfere, officially, but this is Loghain we're talking about, and I doubt he cares too much about what wardens can or cannot do. I get the sense from his dialogues that he has come to respect the wardens (especially that he now knows the sacrifices involved) but he is still a reluctant conscript with a rapidly diminishing lifespan, so I'm betting that if he saw a chevalier victimising a peasant he'd lay the smack down.

[alschemid]

tashatush wrote...

Speaking of which, I've been wanting to draw him more. I'll have to contribute some silly doodles in the near future. ;D

Yay!! More Loghain fanart.

Addai67 wrote...
This is why I said I really wonder about his daily life in Orlais. 

It makes a lot of sense he recruiting wardens in Ferelden, but in Orlais? Do you think they would let him go or do as he pleases in Orlais? Or would him be confined in a village/keep in the middle of nowhere?

Anyway I don't suppose he would just watch, he would go kick some chavaliers' butts with wardens' approval or not.

Modifié par alschemid, 10 décembre 2010 - 10:04 .

[phaonica]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Anyways, to bring back some maturity in the thread, a strange hypothetical situation just popped in my head. Say Loghain is recruiting Wardens in Orlais and in one of his errands, he sees Chevaliers trying to take advatange of some peasant. What do you think he would do? Wardens, I presume, are not allowed to interfere in such things, considering that Chevaliers have the "right" to do what they wish. So would he stay out of it like a Warden is supposed to, or would he act to protect the victims, seeing how he personally suffered such a fate? What do you think, active thread participants?

Incidently, can Wardens recruit Chevaliers? They can recruit knights in Ferelden I believe (with their lords permission?), but Chevaiers seem to be more than that and an important pillar for the regime.

I don't see Loghain as being generally duty-bound, like he sticks to his given duty no matter what that given duty is, but rather that his loyalty is completely bound to Ferelden. Just because you conscript him doesn't mean that he'll completely and utterly adopt his "duty" as a Warden. I think he'll continue to place his duty to Ferelden above anything he is charged to do as a Warden. If he thinks that his "misbehavior" as a Warden in Orlais could negatively affect Ferelden, he might stay out of it, but not because a Warden is supposed to. If only he himself would be affected by the backlash, I could see him getting involved.

And I don't know how conscription works in Orlais. I get the impression that conscripting someone in Ferelden brings that person outside the jurisdiction of the Landsmeet and the Crown, but I don't know if it works the same in Orlais.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

phaonica wrote...



I don't see Loghain as being generally duty-bound, like he sticks to his given duty no matter what that given duty is, but rather that his loyalty is completely bound to Ferelden. Just because you conscript him doesn't mean that he'll completely and utterly adopt his "duty" as a Warden. I think he'll continue to place his duty to Ferelden above anything he is charged to do as a Warden. If he thinks that his "misbehavior" as a Warden in Orlais could negatively affect Ferelden, he might stay out of it, but not because a Warden is supposed to. If only he himself would be affected by the backlash, I could see him getting involved.

This. Loghain will carry out his duty to the Wardens, but only if that does not interfere with his duty to Ferelden.. And since he still holds Ferelden values above those of Warden values, I can see him getting involved in some way., Wardens be damned. He'd only restrain himself if by getting involved, he would endanger Ferelden. But I can't see him living in orlais peacefully, the culture and behavior of such a society would be too revolting for him to keep quiet for long. He might even tell them to get stuffed and return to Ferelden if he's had enough.

And I don't know how conscription works in Orlais. I get the impression that conscripting someone in Ferelden brings that person outside the jurisdiction of the Landsmeet and the Crown, but I don't know if it works the same in Orlais.

I get the impression that the Right of Conscription is universal and uniform in every country where Wardens are present. Thus, technically, anyone, including the Empress herself, could probably be conscripted.

[Persephone]

phaonica wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Anyways, to bring back some maturity in the thread, a strange hypothetical situation just popped in my head. Say Loghain is recruiting Wardens in Orlais and in one of his errands, he sees Chevaliers trying to take advatange of some peasant. What do you think he would do? Wardens, I presume, are not allowed to interfere in such things, considering that Chevaliers have the "right" to do what they wish. So would he stay out of it like a Warden is supposed to, or would he act to protect the victims, seeing how he personally suffered such a fate? What do you think, active thread participants?

Incidently, can Wardens recruit Chevaliers? They can recruit knights in Ferelden I believe (with their lords permission?), but Chevaiers seem to be more than that and an important pillar for the regime.

I don't see Loghain as being generally duty-bound, like he sticks to his given duty no matter what that given duty is, but rather that his loyalty is completely bound to Ferelden. Just because you conscript him doesn't mean that he'll completely and utterly adopt his "duty" as a Warden. I think he'll continue to place his duty to Ferelden above anything he is charged to do as a Warden. If he thinks that his "misbehavior" as a Warden in Orlais could negatively affect Ferelden, he might stay out of it, but not because a Warden is supposed to. If only he himself would be affected by the backlash, I could see him getting involved.

And I don't know how conscription works in Orlais. I get the impression that conscripting someone in Ferelden brings that person outside the jurisdiction of the Landsmeet and the Crown, but I don't know if it works the same in Orlais.

This. Without doubt. Warden or no, Ferelden will always come first in his heart.

[DragonRacer13]

Pretty much agree with everyone else.

Looking forward to impending fan art.

Shamelessly plugging Chapter 5 of my fic now being up (click siggy link).

And LOLing at the incredibly weak and see-it-coming-a-mile-away troll flame attempt.

[Esbatty]

Addai67 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Bravo.


Anyways, to bring back some maturity in the thread, a strange hypothetical situation just popped in my head. Say Loghain is recruiting Wardens in Orlais and in one of his errands, he sees Chevaliers trying to take advatange of some peasant. What do you think he would do? Wardens, I presume, are not allowed to interfere in such things, considering that Chevaliers have the "right" to do what they wish. So would he stay out of it like a Warden is supposed to, or would he act to protect the victims, seeing how he personally suffered such a fate? What do you think, active thread participants?

Incidently, can Wardens recruit Chevaliers? They can recruit knights in Ferelden I believe (with their lords permission?), but Chevaiers seem to be more than that and an important pillar for the regime.

This is why I said I really wonder about his daily life in Orlais.  We don't know a lot about Orlais actually, not about the life of the common people, but it seems there are so many values conflicts that it would be a tough row.  Although I would be fond of seeing Loghain telling a chevalier or high-falutin noble to go jump in a lake. 

I get the feeling he is read the "riot act" like I was as a child when going to the store.

Warden-Commander: Alright Loghain, since you're new to all this and obviously not a fan of Orlais.
Loghain: *grumbles something about the damnation of Orlesians*
Warden-Commander: *sigh* Well things work differently here, you'll be relegated to recruitment duties and thus will be out and about scouting the countryside and cities for new recruits for either conscription or if they chose to volunteer. Other than that you'll basically be on the lookout for any suspicious Darkspawn activity. Any questions?
Loghain: Yes, what happens if I discover dead or dying Chevaliers who were possibly attacked by Darkspawn whilst in the process of raping commoners?
Warden-Commander: Did I tell you'll have an assistant?
Loghain: Oh?
Warden-Commaner: Who will answer directly to me.
Loghain: Oh.

[Zjarcal]

This is a bit out of the blue and a bit off topic, but are my eyes deceiving me or is Addai using one of my Loghain sigs?!?!?!?!?!?

I mean, Addai never even used an Alistair sig berore! I guess Loghain has officially triumphed. 

P.S.: This isn't because of some lost bet, right?

[Esbatty]

I think you're right. That or we've both just drank out of the same bottle of spoiled milk. I swear I can taste his wind braids. Like licorice.