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[phaonica]

I thought Cauthrien was all about hero worship at first, but I don't see her devotion and loyalty to be blindly fanatic. She's been around him, she wants to trust him, but she's scared that he's wrong.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

@ KOP
Yes, but not extensively. And she was born into nobility, raised as such, even schooled like one. Where as Cauthrien's background, status, and life were more similar to Loghains. In the convos I had with Loghain in camp, I get the impression that while the normal paternal feelings and such are there, he and Anora are quite different people, in some ways, estranged from one another.

Modifié par Skadi_the_Evil_Elf, 31 août 2010 - 10:16 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Yea, I got the same feeling too Skadi. But if Eamon's words hold any value, it seems that Anora is more like her father in personality than her mother.

I think the main difference is in upbringing and circumstances rather than personality perse.

[Giggles_Manically]

Warden: "You're sort of a ruthless b!tch."

Queen Anora: "I prefer to think of it as having staunch determination. Was there a point you wanted to make?"

Warden: "No, I just wanted to say it."

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Yea, I got the same feeling too Skadi. But if Eamon's words hold any value, it seems that Anora is more like her father in personality than her mother.
I think the main difference is in upbringing and circumstances rather than personality perse.

I think the similarities are more along the lines of unyielding resolve, pride, and relentlessness in pursuit of their individual outlooks/ambitions. In otherwords, Anora is more like her father in the sense she is clever and can be pretty ruthless and relentless in pursuit of a chosen aim.

But Anora is a politician, Loghain a general. The two types of personalities required to be good at either are as different as night and day. A politician needs to have shrewd people skills, as well as subtlty and manipulation skills. Anora has these attributes. Loghain is a field general. He has a mind for tactics and getting the job done as efficiently as possible, not caring who he pisses off in the process. Loghain also relates better to those under his command than Anora, who is rather out of touch with most people. Anora is more refined in her dealings, Loghain is a bit hamfisted. Anora's a talker, Loghain's a doer.

While the two can compliment one another, they really seem to have difficulty connecting on a very personal and human/familial level.

[phaonica]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Warden: "You're sort of a ruthless b!tch."
Queen Anora: "I prefer to think of it as having staunch determination. Was there a point you wanted to make?"
Warden: "No, I just wanted to say it."

She doesn't deny it, lol. I like Anora more and more all the time.

[KnightofPhoenix]

@ Skadi.
There have been many who were great politicians and generals at the same time. Caesar, Amr Ibn Al Aas, Ibn Abi Aamer Al Mansour / Al Manzor, Napoleon...etc.

But yea I would agree that Anora does not seem to be "general" material.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 31 août 2010 - 10:32 .

[Giggles_Manically]

Maybe her screeching can kill our foes?



However few generals can be good peace time leaders.

They get the commenors on their side, but they usually irk nobles and others snooty types alot.

[phaonica]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

But Anora is a politician, Loghain a general. The two types of personalities required to be good at either are as different as night and day. A politician needs to have shrewd people skills, as well as subtlty and manipulation skills. Anora has these attributes. Loghain is a field general. He has a mind for tactics and getting the job done as efficiently as possible, not caring who he pisses off in the process. Loghain also relates better to those under his command than Anora, who is rather out of touch with most people. Anora is more refined in her dealings, Loghain is a bit hamfisted. Anora's a talker, Loghain's a doer.

I wonder at how they managed to mold Anora into an effective politician. Surely it was not Loghain's doing, considering his political prowess. Maric? If so then why wasn't Cailan better at it? Celia? Or, was it just meant to be?

[KnightofPhoenix]

phaonica wrote...
I wonder at how they managed to mold Anora into an effective politician. Surely it was not Loghain's doing, considering his political prowess. Maric? If so then why wasn't Cailan better at it? Celia? Or, was it just meant to be?

She did recieve the best education money can buy, but it is strange as to why Cailan is like this.

I am of the opinion that some people are born natural leaders and / or politicians.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

There have been many who were great politicians and generals at the same time. Caesar, Amr Ibn Al Aas, Ibn Abi Aamer Al Mansour / Al Manzor, Napoleon...etc.
But yea I would agree that Anora does not seem to be "general" material.

Nor is Loggy politician material.

To be both at the same time is a pretty rare thing, though. Ceasar wasn't that great a politician, as he himself was a little too overtly ambitious, and lacked the good manipulation skills. He got killed by his own homebioys in broad daylight, right in the Senate. A good politician would have uncovered the plot quietly, and sprung a surprise of his own. Or sweet talked his enemies into a position where he could dominate them. But he was a great general.

Napoleon was far better at politics than military affairs. He really only succeeded militarily against lame opponents when the weather was good.

The others...I know little of. Those scary semetic names that make excellent names for archdemons and stuff. But I'll take your word on the matter.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

phaonica wrote...
I wonder at how they managed to mold Anora into an effective politician. Surely it was not Loghain's doing, considering his political prowess. Maric? If so then why wasn't Cailan better at it? Celia? Or, was it just meant to be?

She did recieve the best education money can buy, but it is strange as to why Cailan is like this.

I am of the opinion that some people are born natural leaders and / or politicians.

As am I. Many of the greatest leaders in history recieved no schooling in the matter, or came from families of lesser status. Where as some of the biggest jokes and pathetic leaders were born to great dynasties and had mad amounts of schooling, yet still failed.

Leadership traits, I think, really are one of those personality quirks some are born with, some aren't.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...
Napoleon was far better at politics than military affairs. He really only succeeded militarily against lame opponents when the weather was good.

Isn't picking the right weather ta sign of a great general though?
He re-invented warfare and those who defeated him had to use his tactics to do so. I think he scores very high on both counts.

But I do agree that people tend to look too much at his miltiary accomplishements and ignore his political side.

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...
The others...I know little of. Those scary semetic names that make excellent names for archdemons and stuff. But I'll take your word on the matter.

Amr Ibn Al Aas is considered to be one of the four most intelligent / cunning / ressourceful people in the history of Islam. Not as good a general as Khaled Ibn Al Walid, but he was the one who conquered Egypt. And was smart enough to ally with Muawiya (also of the four and one of my favorites) and secure his position.

Al Manzor started from nothing and became the vizier of the Caliph, whom he managed to alienate very easily, via trickery and manipulation (he was known for his charm and good looks) thus making him sole ruler of Al Andalus. And he personally led 50 or so campaigns against the European kingdoms and he never lost once.  

But yes you're right, it's rare.

And yes, Loghain is not a good poitician imo.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 31 août 2010 - 10:48 .

[phaonica]

I guess they just lucked out, then. I can't imagine that they could pick out those qualities in her at such a young age as she and Cailan were betrothed.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Isn't picking the right weather ta sign of a great general though?

Yes.....see Russia.

Wintertime there....bad time to go on an armed tour of the country.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

phaonica wrote...

I guess they just lucked out, then. I can't imagine that they could pick out those qualities in her at such a young age as she and Cailan were betrothed.

That's pretty much it. Luck. Leadership doesn't seem to be a trait easily bred. They were lucky Anora was born with a personality that favored such things. Otherwise, well, Cailan would be the one running the country.....

[KnightofPhoenix]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Isn't picking the right weather ta sign of a great general though?

Yes.....see Russia.

Wintertime there....bad time to go on an armed tour of the country.

Lol, touche.
It's a wonder how someone so smart could do something really stupid. He did defeat all armies sent to fight him, but the winter crushed him.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

phaonica wrote...

I guess they just lucked out, then. I can't imagine that they could pick out those qualities in her at such a young age as she and Cailan were betrothed.

That's pretty much it. Luck. Leadership doesn't seem to be a trait easily bred. They were lucky Anora was born with a personality that favored such things. Otherwise, well, Cailan would be the one running the country.....

They were also lucky with Rowan.
Not sure she is as good as Anora though.

[Giggles_Manically]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Isn't picking the right weather ta sign of a great general though?

Yes.....see Russia.

Wintertime there....bad time to go on an armed tour of the country.

Lol, touche.
It's a wonder how someone so smart could do something really stupid. He did defeat all armies sent to fight him, but the winter crushed him.

Rumored because he thought he could win in a very short time.
Made the most classic blunder in war: Underestimating your foe!

Isint Arcturus Mengsk a good leader and general though in SC2?

[KnightofPhoenix]

Giggles_Manically wrote...
Isint Arcturus Mengsk a good leader and general though in SC2?

Well in SC1, he is portrayed as both (and the books and other sources refer to him as a genuis and natural leader). In SC2, they didn't show any of that but instead show him getting his ass kicked somewhat too easily by some rebel, while also potentially helping the Dark Voice. Sigh.
Such a great character gone to waste.  

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...


Lol, touche.
It's a wonder how someone so smart could do something really stupid. He did defeat all armies sent to fight him, but the winter crushed him.

Probably the same reason Hitler didn't fare much better: overconfidence in his forces vs. the realities of war and mother nature. Starvation and the elements have felled more armies than any other weapon of mass destruction, yet many generals brazenly underestimate the threat both propose, and not preparing accordingly.


Rowan wasn't anywhere near the politician than Anora is, but her strengths were balanced, being a good warrior and a good queen, not being exceptional at either. But it worked out, because Maric was similar, once he had learned his lessons from Loggy.

Cailan, though, was an idiot in both arenas, and thus, his and Anora's partnership was a bit one sided.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Reminds me of that riddle about hunger in the Sacred Ashes quest. "No man has seen it, but all men know it. Lighter than air, sharper than any sword. Can fell the strongest army."

[Giggles_Manically]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...
Isint Arcturus Mengsk a good leader and general though in SC2?

Well in SC1, he is portrayed as both (and the books and other sources refer to him as a genuis and natural leader). In SC2, they didn't show any of that but instead show him getting his ass kicked somewhat too easily by some rebel, while also potentially helping the Dark Voice. Sigh.
Such a great character gone to waste.  

I liked reading about him.
But know his son is supposed to be the next great person in SC. BLAH
Also the writers seem to have a serious love on for Raynor.

[Giggles_Manically]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Reminds me of that riddle about hunger in the Sacred Ashes quest. "No man has seen it, but all men know it. Lighter than air, sharper than any sword. Can fell the strongest army."

That reminds me of Hannibal Barca.
That guy ran cirles around the romans.

To bad the romans had way more guys then he did.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Reminds me of that riddle about hunger in the Sacred Ashes quest. "No man has seen it, but all men know it. Lighter than air, sharper than any sword. Can fell the strongest army."

That reminds me of Hannibal Barca.
That guy ran cirles around the romans.

To bad the romans had way more guys then he did.

But Hannibal had Elephants! And elephants were like, the griffons of the classical world!

I mean, who needs legions of well trained troops when you can just ride into battle on monster pachyderms and STOMP them into goo!