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[Shinobu]

*SPOILERS*

I'm not really seeing the MacBeth similarity either, although MacBeth was killed by one "not of woman born" (which would fit Alistair if you go that route). I didn't really like Loghain in the novels but thought he was a very interesting and sympathetic companion. He obviously did what he thought was his "duty" even if it made him the most hated man in Ferelden. Gotta respect that.

I've made a semi-humorous tribute music video for him here. He and the Warden blow off the Landsmeet for the good of Ferelden.

[Sarah1281]

? Why would Alistair be 'not of woman born'? Even if you think his mom is Fiona, she's still a woman.

[KnightofPhoenix]

I saw something in Mount & Blade Warband that reminded me of Ferelden and also of Loghain (a bit).

The Kingdom of Rhodok was established after it freed itself from the rule of Swadia (its symbol is the lion, kind of like Orlais), claiming to be fighting for freedom and equality. Their king is elected in a meeting where weapons are forbidden, a la Landsmeet and they rejected serfdom completely. Of course as my engineer and friend Artimener explained, this changed quickly as counts rose to start competing against each other and that despite all their claims of freedoms and constitutionalism, Rhodok is no different than the others (paraphrasing his words). Sort of similar to Ferelden.

Also its King, Graveth came into power after bringing weapons to that meeting and claiming that Swadia was attempting an invasion(more likely that it was a small raid) and that if they didn't vote for him, he would leave them to their fates. They of course elected him. His rival, the claimant Kastor argues that Graveth shouldn't be king because he broke the sacred tradition (sort of like Eamon). And like Eamon, he has ulterior motives (being the lord of Veluca, a very wealthy town and probably favoring it over other Rhodok cities).

So yea, some similarities, even if they are a bit superficial. Of course all this matters little, as the Kingdom of Rhodok has now only one city left and they will soon be assimilated into my Empire, under my benevolent rule (they really shouldn't have provoked me by killing my citizens. That gave me the perfect excuse).

The political dynamics of the game are really interesting, specifically the claimant vs king dynamic that each faction has. Usually, each has a point, though here I lean much more towards Graveth. Which doesn't matter as he will soon be eliminated. Somehow, Rhodoks being like Fereldans and claiming to uphold same values makes them more enjoyable to conquer.

Oh and that's the ruler of the future united Calradian Empire (me)

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 17 janvier 2011 - 04:06 .

[Giggles_Manically]

I tried to play Mount and Blade but got annoyed at some iffy controls I encountered.

I loved the horse archery part though and was pretty decent at it.



Wish I could have gotten into it more but I was playing it at the same time as Fallout New Vegas so yeah.

[Addai]

Shinobu wrote...

*SPOILERS*

I'm not really seeing the MacBeth similarity either, although MacBeth was killed by one "not of woman born" (which would fit Alistair if you go that route). I didn't really like Loghain in the novels but thought he was a very interesting and sympathetic companion. He obviously did what he thought was his "duty" even if it made him the most hated man in Ferelden. Gotta respect that.

I've made a semi-humorous tribute music video for him here. He and the Warden blow off the Landsmeet for the good of Ferelden.

Nicely done.  Your Tabris is very pretty.

Man, I can't watch Loghain die anymore without getting verklemmt.  What hath fanfiction wrought!

[Persephone]

Addai67 wrote...

Shinobu wrote...

*SPOILERS*

I'm not really seeing the MacBeth similarity either, although MacBeth was killed by one "not of woman born" (which would fit Alistair if you go that route). I didn't really like Loghain in the novels but thought he was a very interesting and sympathetic companion. He obviously did what he thought was his "duty" even if it made him the most hated man in Ferelden. Gotta respect that.

I've made a semi-humorous tribute music video for him here. He and the Warden blow off the Landsmeet for the good of Ferelden.

Nicely done.  Your Tabris is very pretty.

Man, I can't watch Loghain die anymore without getting verklemmt.  What hath fanfiction wrought!

Welcome to my world. I cannot watch that scene at all.

[Costin_Razvan]

How big is your Empire Knight?



I tried Mount and Blade, it was good but just not my type of game. I really can't stand a game where I just run around like an idiot to do various tasks for various lords. I guess it does change once you get a strong enough army but meh the beginning is quite boring.



I vastly prefer Total War.

[CalJones]

What's the general concensus on M&B? It's something I have considered for when I'm between major games, but so far I've always found something else to play. What games does it most resemble?



@Persephone & Addai - me neither. That scene really makes me cringe. Oh and Addai, now I'm going to nag you for the next chapter. And ya know I wouldn't do that if I wasn't enthralled. *prod prod*

[KnightofPhoenix]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

How big is your Empire Knight?

I tried Mount and Blade, it was good but just not my type of game. I really can't stand a game where I just run around like an idiot to do various tasks for various lords. I guess it does change once you get a strong enough army but meh the beginning is quite boring.

I vastly prefer Total War.

What's in Red is mine. Yellow is the Sarranid Sultanate, green is Rhodoks, Blue is Nords and Purple is the Kergit Khanate. The Swadians (orange) and Vaegirs (white) are gone. I am currently at peace with everyone, but I just had a small war with the Rhodoks after I recieved a report that they caused the death of a few of my villagers. If I didn't retaliate, I would have suffered a loss of face.  I took Praven and a castle from them.

The very humble beginnings can be boring yes, but I quickly pledged my loyalty to the Sarranid Sultanate and became an Emir. Eventually, my fiefdom had a village, a castle and a city (Dhirim, my current capital). Then I  rebelled and created my own kingdom. Of course I did that after convincing Sultan Hakim of declaring war against everybody, so he'd be more likely to accept a truce once I break away from him (the poor sod loved me, so he agreed).

I am playing the Diplmacy + tactics mod and we have some options concerning the domestic policy. We can choose whether our kingdom is decentralised or centralised (and the scale, from a little, to quite, to very, to completely), aristocratic vs plutocratic, freedom vs serfdom, and troop quality vs quantity.   

My Empire is a little centralized, very plutocratic, my people are usually free and my men have good quality.
It has the largest amount of caravans (15). And It has 16 or so lords, all of which are at least supportive of me (because I host a lot of feasts and send a lot of gifts). My personal fiefdom consists of the cites of Dhirim and Shariz, a castle and 3 villages.

The head minister is my wife, Lady Zantina, who I had married back in the day when I was emir. She loyally turned her back against her father and brother (both Sarranid Emirs) for me .
And I am the marshal of the Empire, no way I am giving military control to one of my lords. I decide when we go on campaigns and what to do. 

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 17 janvier 2011 - 01:24 .

[Giggles_Manically]

So what is the next step for you KoP?

Take out the Rhodoks? Or something bigger and more bold?



I would have played more but the opening just dragged on and on for me, and well no game has beaten Rome Total War for me as of yet, even though I really modded it a long time ago.

[Addai]

CalJones wrote...
@Persephone & Addai - me neither. That scene really makes me cringe. Oh and Addai, now I'm going to nag you for the next chapter. And ya know I wouldn't do that if I wasn't enthralled. *prod prod*

Heh.  I need the prodding.  Next chapter is in beta, I'm not happy with it, but what the hell.  I'll probably publish tonight.

Modifié par Addai67, 17 janvier 2011 - 03:31 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

So what is the next step for you KoP?
Take out the Rhodoks? Or something bigger and more bold?

Take out the Rhodoks. And quickly.

I've been trying to make a non-aggression treaty with the Kergit Khanate and they constanstly refused, which leads me to believe that they are planing something. Problem is, Rhodok lands are mountainous (which lessens the effectiveness of my elite Mameluk cavalry) and they have three castles there (one of which at least needs a siege tower to be taken and that takes 46 hours to build) plus a city.

If I commit my army there, there is a chance that the Kergit Khanate would declare war at me (apparently they like the Rhodoks, because I get a reduction in relationship everytime I take a Rhodok count prisoner). So I might get stuck in a two front war and I want to avoid that. 

So for the time being, I'll wait and try to build up my relationship with the Khanate, or wait for either the Nords or the Sarranids to declare war on it. But I definately want to get rid of the Rhodoks as soon as possible to eliminate the threat of a western front forever.

I rarely do something bold. I prefer leapfrog conquests. Usually I take a city and a few castles and sue for peace. Then start all over again. That being said, when war does break out, I am always on the offensive and I invested a lot in pathfinding (increases speed). So I usually blitzkrieg.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 17 janvier 2011 - 05:12 .

[Giggles_Manically]

If the one side wont sue for peace ever, swing the other two nations into attacking it, but only throw in a small force to attack.

It may be risky but an all out blitz sounds like the best thing to do.
I am not so sure of the mechanics since I got only 8 hours in but I would remember what Sun Tzu said about sieges.

They waste a lot of resources and man power on them. so if you could take out their weakest cities and forts first. Like what the Romans did in the Middle East.

Take out the easiest held places and then strangle the last strongholds into submission later. All you really have to do is hold a force in place and starve the castle. A blockade takes less men then an assault really.

EDIT- Do you think that the sultenate is trying to keep you occupied with the smaller country?

Modifié par Giggles_Manically, 17 janvier 2011 - 05:44 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Problem is, I can't issue orders like that to my lords, because of the stupid feudal system that the game doesn't allow me to change. I can order one of my lords to go somewhere, but he won't stay there for long, he'll get bored and leave and I can't punish him for disobeying an order. So if I want to starve out the castles, I'll have to stay there myself and do it one castle at a time (it will take a month for each). And I can't stay that long, especially if a faction declares war on us.

I'll see if I can order my lords to do that and stay there, but I doubt it. I HATE feudalism. One of the most irrational systems out there and this further increases my conviction that Ferelden needs to do away with its idiotic system.

The Sultanate is the one currently asking me to accept non-aggression treaties. So I think they don't want to start a war with me soon. But I am increasing my relationship with them.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 17 janvier 2011 - 05:48 .

[Giggles_Manically]

I hate how games cant allow you to fully use all the tools a real life leader can.

[Costin_Razvan]

So I might get stuck in a two front war and I want to avoid that.

You definitely will get stuck in a war on multiple fronts. No one likes a nation expanding aggressively as yours did, unless of course it stands to benefit them ( for example you destroying a nation they hate ).

This is exactly what is happening in my current Napoleon Total War Game.

Thus far this is my Empire, or was a few turns before. I dealt with the Rebels, destroyed what is left of Austria and took Warsaw ( which I made into a new protectorate state of mine ), Naples and Sicily.




Taking England wasn't particullary hard. I landed in Ireland with a third of the force in London and took Dublin and Scotland, liberating Ireland and giving Scotland to them as well.

Then Wellington turned the bulk of the British army against me, which I crushed and sent reinforcements from Paris across the channel ( barely avoiding Nelson and his fleet ) to take London.

Now all that remains for me is to take down what is left of Prussia ( not hard given the vast bulk of their armies were destroyed by Napoleon himself then Murat took Berlin ), problem is EVERYONE hates me except my protectorates, but my allies ( Kingdom of Italy, Denmark, Rhine Confederation ) are all hostile as well and if Spain declares war then... complicated as France itself is almost completely defenseless, then there are the Ottomans...

I have Massenna and Davout in Italy ( in the same army ). Napoleon heading for Russia, Murat in Prussia and Ney sailing for Sweden to knock it out. 

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 17 janvier 2011 - 05:50 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

I hate how games cant allow you to fully use all the tools a real life leader can.

Mount & Blade is not a strategy game and I don't expect much from it in that regard. In fact what it provided in terms of military is more than I expected and I love it for what it is.

For me, it's more like a personal tale that startegy games fail to convey. In M&B you feel like a leader and general. In Total war, you feel like a god looking at the globe and interacting with it, but it lacks personal involvement. Both styles have their pros and cons of course.

But I got a bit bored of RTSs and M&B is something new to me and I really like it. I would love it even more if it added more strategy and tactics in the mix, as well as more political options (I want to have generals under my command, not lords who think they can do whatever they want).

[Giggles_Manically]

Heh.



That reminds me of the first time I finished the Grand Campaign in Rome TW.



I had armies fight in:

Northern England (Rebels)

Two cities under siege in Russia.

Egypt had launched its last armies at me from Thebes.

The Seleucid King was under siege in his last city.



Then a giant rebel army was fighting my best general in southern France.

All those battles took place in two turns.

[Costin_Razvan]

Ah but Knight, that is how it works in a Medieval setting. "Chuckle." Lords do think they can do whatever the hell they want.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 17 janvier 2011 - 05:54 .

[Giggles_Manically]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

I hate how games cant allow you to fully use all the tools a real life leader can.

Mount & Blade is not a strategy game and I don't expect much from it in that regard. In fact what it provided in terms of military is more than I expected and I love it for what it is.

For me, it's more like a personal tale that startegy games fail to convey. In M&B you feel like a leader and general. In Total war, you feel like a god looking at the globe and interacting with it, but it lacks personal involvement. Both styles have their pros and cons of course.

But I got a bit bored of RTSs and M&B is something new to me and I really like it. I would love it even more if it added more strategy and tactics in the mix, as well as more political options (I want to have generals under my command, not lords who think they can do whatever they want).

That was my friends gripe about it too.
Although he was mostly playing it so he could fire his bow from his horse. He also never made a country and spent most of the game as a mercenary.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Costin_Razvan wrote...
problem is EVERYONE hates me except my protectorates, but my allies ( Kingdom of Italy, Denmark, Rhine Confederation ) are all hostile as well and if Spain declares war then... complicated as France itself is almost completely defenseless, then there are the Ottomans...

That sounds about accurate. Virtually no one liked France at the time.

I heard that Napoleon Total War adds more diplomatic options. Did you try some  diplomacy or just conquer and kill?

I want to check the game out, but I am not a huge fan of the time period, I prefer antiquity and medieval periods (solely to play as Arabs, I don't care about tin plated knights) more.
Of course in terms of strategy, M&B can't begin to compare at all with total war, it wasn't designed for that.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Ah but Knight, that is how it works in a Medieval setting. "Chuckle." Lords do think they can do whatever the hell they want.

I know and it's stupid.

Like when I told several of my lords to do some raids, they come to me later and say "Oh what you asked me to do was very beneficial to me and I thank you for it".
Eum, you think I care what is beneficial to you in the middle of a war? Sigh.

And I didn't ask! I ordered!

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 17 janvier 2011 - 06:02 .

[Costin_Razvan]

I heard that Napoleon Total War adds more diplomatic options. Did you try some diplomacy or just conquer and kill?

There are options of course. You can ask nations to impose a trade embargo on another nation, you can trade technology for aid, cash, alliances ( hell it helps me a lot to keep those idiotic nations allied to me in line, and I basically cut off England's trade before Ney landed ).



Then there are certain zones where when you conquer them you can liberate them and they form a new nations utterly loyal to you and protectorate as well ( I did this with Poland and Ireland, and will do so with Romania as well. )



So yeah there is far better diplomacy then in other games and the AI is by far the best in the series.

[Giggles_Manically]

I hated in Rome TW how some leaders who rebel with the whole city.



My best general (8 star) took a full 20 units in Barbarian total war, and then started taking my cities in Spain. That bastard was so hard to kill and I had to stop fighting on the other side of the Rhine to get back in time to stop him.

[KnightofPhoenix]

If only they'd make a game with as much strategy and complexity as the Total war series (but with more politics, especially domestic politics), with the personal touch of M&B. That game would be heaven.