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Why Teyrn Loghain is the deepest character in Dragon Age


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#7426
Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

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Giggles_Manically wrote...

 Okay.

I can officially not wait anymore to start playing Shogun 2.
SHOGUN 2 BATTLE TRAILER.

I have loved the total war series since I first played Rome Total war and now am so excited to start playing Shogun 2.
It really looks like its going to be one of the best Total War games ever.
It really looks amazing and I cant wait to play an AI that is clever and not just cheating with boosted stats and extra health. 

edit: Plus tell me that the samurai in black is not bad ass right here:
CLICK HERE



I'd rather be a ninja, and sneak behind them and shuriken them to death. :ph34r:

#7427
Giggles_Manically

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 @Skadi

NINJA!

#7428
Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

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Giggles_Manically wrote...

 @Skadi

NINJA!



F-ING AWESOME!!!!!:o:O:happy:

Though that ninja was a bit of a gimp, tripping over all those passed out samuai trying to free his leg from being humped.

#7429
KnightofPhoenix

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I am considering Shogun 2 more and more. I just need a confirmation that we can play the Tokugawa clan and I'll be certain.

#7430
Giggles_Manically

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A german mag said that we would be playing as Ieyasu during a historical campaign.



I read it a long time ago but IIRC the gist was that we would focus on the greatest generals of that time and Ieyasu was on the list.

#7431
CalJones

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KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Loghain considers cheese as part of Ferelden's national heritage. He loves cheese alot.


LMAO! I can't believe that was on an episode of ER. Of course, cheese rolling is a part of our grandly eccentric British heritage... (not that I would ever involve myself in such a thing...)

#7432
KnightofPhoenix

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Giggles_Manically wrote...

A german mag said that we would be playing as Ieyasu during a historical campaign.

I read it a long time ago but IIRC the gist was that we would focus on the greatest generals of that time and Ieyasu was on the list.


I hope they give us the option to fire on Hideaki.

#7433
DragonRacer13

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For anyone still following, the latest chapter of "The Hand We're Dealt" is now live... Chapter 6: Yellow

#7434
Addai

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CalJones wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Loghain considers cheese as part of Ferelden's national heritage. He loves cheese alot.


LMAO! I can't believe that was on an episode of ER. Of course, cheese rolling is a part of our grandly eccentric British heritage... (not that I would ever involve myself in such a thing...)

Suuuure you wouldn't.  :lol:  I like how they got a few Brit curses in there ("git", "tosser").

Our cheese has been attacked before!  We must not let ourselves be divided now!  STAND WITH ME!

#7435
Giggles_Manically

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KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

A german mag said that we would be playing as Ieyasu during a historical campaign.

I read it a long time ago but IIRC the gist was that we would focus on the greatest generals of that time and Ieyasu was on the list.


I hope they give us the option to fire on Hideaki.

I loved how a doc on him had this exchange:
IF he charges us we are all dead.
Then what do we have to lose?

#7436
KnightofPhoenix

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The BBC one right?

"Are you questioning me?! ARE YOU?!"

And I just love it when he says "Fire on Hideaki". He sounds so calm and badass about doing something that at first glance sounds insane.

#7437
Giggles_Manically

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Lols.



I loved the part where he annoyed the other guy who had to sneak in dressed as a woman with:

You know I hear that they are always looking for my geisha in Tokyo....



That actor was awesome.

#7438
CalJones

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Thanks Dragon Racer.

#7439
Addai

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DragonRacer13 wrote...

For anyone still following, the latest chapter of "The Hand We're Dealt" is now live... Chapter 6: Yellow

I've got my list ready, for when TA is done.  Whenever that is.  :)

Y'all might be interested in a story that a woman who read mine has started.  It's based on the idea of Anora having a younger brother named Gareth.  I haven't read it, either, but if you're in need of another Loghain read (while I'm sloooow at updating, I know I know)... it's called The Heart of the Leader.

#7440
Sarah1281

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I looked at the story. If someone could explain the sense in Loghain deciding that even though he was extremely fond of his daughter-in-law he was still going to hold her personally responsible for the fact he believed her father to be a traitor, agreeing to the massacre, implying she was a **** when she claimed to be pregnant with his grandchild because Gareth hadn't mentioned it, and goading her into trying to kill him so he could have her arrested for treason because it is treason to attack a representative of the crown and so Cailan who is standing right there can't do anything. And then maybe we could work out why Duncan would conscript a pregnant woman into the Grey Wardens when that might kill the baby regardless of if she survives or at least harm it and she will be pretty useless in a fight until the baby is born.

#7441
Addai

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Sarah1281 wrote...

I looked at the story. If someone could explain the sense in Loghain deciding that even though he was extremely fond of his daughter-in-law he was still going to hold her personally responsible for the fact he believed her father to be a traitor, agreeing to the massacre, implying she was a **** when she claimed to be pregnant with his grandchild because Gareth hadn't mentioned it, and goading her into trying to kill him so he could have her arrested for treason because it is treason to attack a representative of the crown and so Cailan who is standing right there can't do anything. And then maybe we could work out why Duncan would conscript a pregnant woman into the Grey Wardens when that might kill the baby regardless of if she survives or at least harm it and she will be pretty useless in a fight until the baby is born.

Image IPB  Ok, I shouldn't link to things I haven't personally read.  Lesson learned.  LOL  Not sure how she got inspiration for that from mine... just the idea of Loghain having a son named Gareth, I guess.

#7442
Morwen Eledhwen

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Image IPB to all my fellow Loghain fans after a very long absence. Damn school, and work. . .

Anyway, both Chapters 2 and 3 of my fic are just about ready to post, but in order to post Chapter 3 I need help with "first time in camp" Loghain dialogue. The Dragon Age Wiki only lists the Warden's dialogue options but doesn't show what Loghain says in response, and my Mage's conversation with him took place so long ago that I only remember a couple of phrases and just an idea of the rest of what he said. I could have sworn there was a YouTube video of that conversation but I can't find it, and my latest DA:O character is only in Lothering so even if I did want to use her to recruit Loghain and recreate that dialogue (which she may not do on her own; she's a Dalish), it would take me way too long to get there. Does anyone have Loghain's lines in that dialogue that they could send me, or a character that's close enough to go there and have it for me? I could let you know which responses my Mage chose. This dialogue was very important in starting my Mage's relationship with Loghain off on the right foot, and the conversations I've written between them in my fic take much of their tone from it. Even if I don't reprint the whole thing, I'd like to at least see it written down instead of relying on my poor memory.

Anyway, respond here or PM me if you can help out or point me somewhere, please and thank you all. I'll be sure to credit you when I post the chapter. :kissing:

#7443
Addai

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I could make a video of it tonight. I got his talking about Anora and Maric, but figured for sure there'd be a video of the first conversation so I didn't make one.

#7444
Morwen Eledhwen

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Addai67 wrote...

I could make a video of it tonight. I got his talking about Anora and Maric, but figured for sure there'd be a video of the first conversation so I didn't make one.


Addai, you are a gentlewoman and a scholar. Shall I let you know which options my Mage chose? And I'm pretty sure I saw a "first conversation" video ages ago, but it's either been removed or it's tagged under keywords so obscure that I have no idea how I found it in the first place. :P

#7445
Persephone

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Addai67 wrote...

DragonRacer13 wrote...

For anyone still following, the latest chapter of "The Hand We're Dealt" is now live... Chapter 6: Yellow

I've got my list ready, for when TA is done.  Whenever that is.  :)

Y'all might be interested in a story that a woman who read mine has started.  It's based on the idea of Anora having a younger brother named Gareth.  I haven't read it, either, but if you're in need of another Loghain read (while I'm sloooow at updating, I know I know)... it's called The Heart of the Leader.


Putting this on my "Must read" list. Gorgeous new avvie, Addai!:wub:

#7446
DragonRacer13

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Morwen Eledhwen wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

I could make a video of it tonight. I got his talking about Anora and Maric, but figured for sure there'd be a video of the first conversation so I didn't make one.


Addai, you are a gentlewoman and a scholar. Shall I let you know which options my Mage chose? And I'm pretty sure I saw a "first conversation" video ages ago, but it's either been removed or it's tagged under keywords so obscure that I have no idea how I found it in the first place. :P


If Addai isn't able to get the video to you, let me know. Though I have a PS3 and can't post video, I do have a save with a blood mage before the first conversation. Let me know your dialogue options (roughly) and I'll type up his convo responses for you. 'Tis how I've been working on my fic... taking literal dictation in order to have some of the in-game convos featured in-fic.

#7447
Sarah1281

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Loghain: I passed your test. Fate has a twisted sense of humor, it seems. (Dry) I suppose you think I'm some sort of monster. More so since I survived your ritual: you keep striking at me, and I just refuse to die decently.



(PC: I don't think you're a monster. (small approval increase)

Loghain: You're a poor liar, you know. It's kind of you to say so, all the same. We must settle things between us somehow or other, or neither of us will get any work done. So, what will it be? (Getting to the point))



(PC: I may have to resort to magic next. (small approval increase)

Loghain: Oh? What was all that nonsense with darkspawn blood and mages, then? A puppet show? It seems to me that magic has already failed. (Amused) I'd recommend a sharp knife in the kidneys next time. Less impressive, but it gets the job done.

(PC: The plan loses something when you're the one suggesting it. (small approval increase)

Loghain: I suppose it does lack the element of surprise. Well, what shall we do to settle things between us, then?)

(PC: Shouldn't you be trying to talk me out of killing you?

Loghain: Why should I? I am a strategist by trade, after all. Should a fine plan be abandoned simply because it ends in my own demise? That seems like such a waste of a good idea.)

(PC: You're not going to be that lucky.

Loghain: So what is it you think you can have me do, then, that will be so much worse than death?))



(PC: If I despise you, it's because you deserve it.

Loghain: Ah, now there's the venom I expected. (Pleased. He wants to get things out in the open, rather than leaving them to stew) Well is that it? Surely you've more to say to me than that. (Almost taunting)

If dwarven: Swear at me in dwarven, if you run out of common epithets. I assure you, I'll be just as wounded even when I don't know what you're saying. (Mocking a bit. Trying to provoke an outburst)

If Dalish: When you run out of common insults, you can try elven. I won't understand them, but I promise to be offended, nonetheless. (Mocking a bit. Trying to provoke an outburst)

If City Elf: I've heard the Alienage speaks profanity as a native tongue. Feel free to indulge yourself. (Mocking a bit. Trying to provoke an outburst)

If HN or mage: Go on. Try out all the curses and insults you know. I'll teach you some new ones if they don't suffice. (Mocking a bit. Trying to provoke an outburst)

(PC: You want me to call you names? How about this one: slaver.

Loghain: Honestly, elf, do you think that among all my crimes is the one that keeps me up at night? That's a bit egotistical of you, don't you think?/Do you honestly think that among all my crimes, that is the one that keeps me awake at night? (Scoffing) The plight of a few dozen elves in the face of all the hundreds who died at Ostagar, the countless others fighting the civil war that followed, seems irrelevant.

[PC: Irrelevant? You sold free people to Tevinter!

Loghain: And because you stopped it, the army we have to face the Blight is a third the size it should be. And many more elves wait in the Alienage, defenseless, for the darkspawn to reach them. Which fate is worse, I wonder: To live as a slave, or to die without hope in the Alienage? But the truth of things hardly matters now. You've won. You can decide whatever you like about my guilt. And now what...]

[PC: You really have no conscience, do you?

Loghain: Course not, I'm a soldier. Conscience has no place in war. (Unapologetic) It got people out of the most indefensible part of the city and put money in the coffers at the same time. The whole kingdom is about to be lost: What does principle matter now? But the truth...]

[PC: You think other people suffered, so the elves don't matter?

Loghain: I think that their suffering, while real enough, is a drop in the ocean now. (Serious) It got people out of...]

[PC: Just tell me why you did it.

Loghain: Because it seemed necessary at the time. (Unapologetic) It got people out of...])

(PC: You're a murderer.

Loghain: Is that the best you have? I'm disappointed. It doesn't even offend me because it happens to be true. I've killed enough men now, with my own hands or by command, that they're beyond counting. (Amused) But the truth...)

(PC: You're a traitor and a coward.

Loghain: By all means, tell me again how I murdered Cailan. I find the topic inexhaustibly fascinating. (Dry) There is no possibility, of course, that Cailan's poor judgment in leading the charge against my advice caused his death. Because he fell in battle, his part in the massacre at Ostagar must be excused, and because I survived, all responsibility must fall to me. (Sour) But the truth...)

(PC: You're awfully smug for a failure.

Loghain: Ah, now that actually struck a glancing blow! Good work. And now what...)

(PC: I don't have to insult you. I've already beaten you.

Loghain: And now what? Am I to be some trophy of your victory? The defeated enemy you drag about on a leash wherever you go? Or have you some worse fate in mind for me?

PC: We don't have to be enemies. (small approval increase)

Loghain: It is, however, what we've chosen to be. And I don't think changing that is a simple matter.(Serious)))



(PC: I was hoping you'd die in the Joining.

Loghain: Yes, I know. You weren't the only one disappointed by the outcome. (Wry) Well is that it? Surely you've more to say to me than that...)



Loghain: *some form of 'What do you want?'*

(PC: Just do what I tell you to do./Just stay out of my way.

Loghain: Or what? You'll kill me? Go ahead. The Joining was my death sentence anyway. It's hardly my fault that it failed to produce the desired result, Warden.)

(PC: We're going to have to work together. (Small approval increase)

Loghain: Is that punishment meant for me or for you? (Amused) And just like that, we're allies? I can't imagine it's so simple. I don't know what concession you want from me, Warden. I expect my word will not satisfy you.)

(PC: You cost me Alistair, you know.

Loghain: Yes, well, you can thank me for that later. I don't know what...)



That tree goes to:

(PC: I need to know I can trust you.

Loghain: Nothing I can say will prove that. Either I will <emp>be</emp> worthy of trust, or I won't.)

(PC: This is still your death sentence. Remember that.

Loghain: I assure you, it's foremost on my mind.(serious))

(PC: Fine, let's just try to avoid one another.

Loghain: I'd be delighted to. It is, however, a small camp. We could dig a moat down the middle of it, perhaps. It will create some difficulty finding a place to pitch tents, I'm afraid.(dry))

(PC: You're a Grey Warden now, too, you know. (Small approval increase)

Loghain: Indeed, I'd almost forgotten that. Thank you for the reminder. (he had almost forgotten this))



Loghain: I think it's time we got to the point here: What do you want from me?

If player vents: My execution was all but arranged. If you'd wanted me dead, you could have had your wish at the Landsmeet. I assume, then, that you have something else in mind.

If not: I can't imagine that you spared my life in the Landsmeet by accident. You have some plan in mind.



(PC: You tell me: What do you want? (Medium approval increase)

Loghain: What <emp>I</emp> want? What an odd question... (Taken aback) I want to ride back to Denerim and sit in the war room and find no empty chairs at the table. I want to lose nothing else. I want a line, clearly drawn, that I can defend. (A little bit wistful) I want an end to this war. All of this can rightly be called my fault. Whether or not you can do better remains to be seen. But if you can make this the end, Warden, I will follow you. I swear it. (Sincere))

(PC: I'm giving you a chance: I want you to take it. (Small approval increase)

Loghain: Fortunate for me, then, that I've always been a man to take chances. (Wry) I'm hardly blind to the irony of this situation.)

(PC: I was granting you mercy, I didn't actually want you. (Small approval decrease)

Loghain: Mercy is a strange creature. They say the sword that struck Andraste was mercy. Your mercy is to leave me in the fire. I'm no Chantry scholar: I don't know which is the cruel fate and which is the kind one. Despite what we each wanted, we're both here now, facing the same enemy, and we can be of use to one another. However little we may enjoy that fact.)

(PC: Death's too easy. Your sentence is life as a Grey Warden. (Medium approval decrease)

Loghain: That's the harsher punishment, certainly, and I can hardly argue that it's more than I deserve. I suppose I ought to be grateful. I have at least some chance now of putting right some of the things I have done. Despite what we each...)

(PC: I want to get some use out of you before sending you to die. (Medium approval decrease)

Loghain: Your candor, Warden, is inspiring. Let me follow your example: You and I have been adversaries for some time, and I don't expect that to change now. (Dry) Despite what we each...)



Next tree:

(PC: I'm glad to have you. (Medium approval increase)

Loghain: I suppose we'll see how long that lasts. (Thoughtful) We should speak no more of this at present. Time's wasting.)

(PC: We will find a way to end this Blight. (Medium approval increase)

Loghain: We will find a way to end this Blight. (Sincere) We should speak...)

(PC: What do I need you for?

Loghain: I am a soldier, you know. And it has come to my attention that you've been looking to build some armies. (Amused)

[PC: What good is that? I'm already stronger than you are. (Small approval decrease)

Loghain: Well, we'll see how far that gets you. (Dry) We should speak...]

[PC: I'll give you a chance. Just don't think I trust you. (Small approval increase)

Loghain: We shoudl speak...])

(PC: You're going to have to prove your worth here.

Loghain: I never doubted that. We should speak...)

(PC: You can stay in the camp. Don't expect any more than that.

Loghain: Very well. It will give me an excellent vantage point to see if you can actually lead an attack against the Blight. (Dry) We should speak...)

#7448
Addai

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Morwen Eledhwen wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

I could make a video of it tonight. I got his talking about Anora and Maric, but figured for sure there'd be a video of the first conversation so I didn't make one.


Addai, you are a gentlewoman and a scholar. Shall I let you know which options my Mage chose? And I'm pretty sure I saw a "first conversation" video ages ago, but it's either been removed or it's tagged under keywords so obscure that I have no idea how I found it in the first place. :P

Sure.  [morrigan] I am your willing slave. [/morrigan]

I took two vids, one with fairly hostile dialogue and one with more of a smiley face on it (for a whopping +32 Loghain approves, whoo!).  I'm processing them now and you can take a look to see if there was a response I missed that your PC chose.  (edit:  or just look at Sarah's toolset magic :happy:)

Modifié par Addai67, 29 janvier 2011 - 01:05 .


#7449
Morwen Eledhwen

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@Sarah: Thanks much --that's most of what I need. I'm a bit puzzled, though, about the next-to-last dialogue set. My Mage said "I'm giving you a chance; I want you to take it", but she got both the response you gave there (though I don't remember the irony bit), and the "All of this can rightly be called my fault. Whether or not you can do better remains to be seen. But if you can make this the end, Warden, I will follow you. I swear it. (Sincere)". I've only ever spared Loghain once and I only put my Mage through this conversation once. So how could I remember two halves of two different dialogues?

DragonRacer, my fellow PS3er, would it be possible for you to run through this convo for me just to make sure the PS3 dialogue isn't somehow different from the PC's? My Mage's responses were:


“I may have to resort to magic next.” (Yes, I know, my Warden is a Mage, but I didn't like any of the other options and so decided that she would say this one ironically.)
“The plan loses something when you're the one suggesting it.”
“We’re going to have to work together.”
“I need to know I can trust you.”
“I’m giving you a chance; I want you to take it.”
“We will find a way to end this Blight.”

Thanks to everyone for being so helpful!

Modifié par Morwen Eledhwen, 29 janvier 2011 - 01:09 .


#7450
Sarah1281

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@Morwen Eledhwen: That's no great mystery. Immediately after "Fortunate for me, then, that I've always been a man to take chances. (Wry) I'm hardly blind to the irony of this situation" it goes to "All of this can rightly be called my fault..." like how all the hostile responses go to "Despite what we each..." I just didn't copy that over.