12857 réponses à ce sujet

[KnightofPhoenix]

Wow, your life is really colorful. I don't know if that's the right word and I apologize if it's offensive. 

I didn't experience much material / financial problems, so I won't presume to know what it feels. And I was popular with the profs most of the time, cause apparently I was a cute kid lol. What I think I do have however is strong empathy to the big picture and a sense of awareness tha I don't think many around me had. While my friends were talking about girls and competing over who has the biggest dick, I was watching news, reading books and pulling my hair out trying to make sense of what's happening around me. Still, many had it worse than me. And I admit that I am not too far from the elite intellectuals (except we are not really that rich, but our name is big). Except I think I know theoritcally that alone it's useless. As you said here:

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...
It's a basic case of practicality. Intellectualism is just rainbow and fairy ideas until it can actually be applied to the real world in some fashion. That is where the Greeks failed but Romans succeeded. They applied their wisdom and intelligence into practical things, such as military and political organization, engineering projects, and other things that would make them stronger.

Agreed, I think that was also the case in the Islamicate civilization. Knowledge was seen as a tool and with practical applicability. No wonder they came up with sociology (Ibn Khaldun) and other fields. One of the greatest Ilsamic scholars, Ibn al-Ghazali, was also very pragmatic and practical in his vision. 
This is the kind of intellectual development that I like. Not philosophy, which I do find interesting, but ends up being useless.

Yes. Looking at conspiracy theories from either angle is enlightening. They often start from some kernel of truth surrounding an actual even, but become distorted and fantastic. It shows alot about the prevailing mood at the time, as well as the underlying hopes and fears of a people.

I mean, I spent years popping into a conspiracy forum in the 9/11 conspiracy debate section, and am never ceased to be amazed about what I've learned about my own countrymen.

Indeed, that's how I see it. It's revealing of their psyche.

The show also talks about many pressing issues, lke religion, gender, poverty, migration, love...etc etc. In fact I'd almost say it's too crowded, but it's 33 episodes, each 45 minutes, so they have time to develop them well.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Here is an example of a friend of mine in high school whose potential brilliance was overlooked because he was poor:



I had this buddy of mine, Phil Sanchez, who was of mexican extraction. Like myself others in our very loose and dysfunctional "clique", he was a stoner. A pothead, metalhead, underachiever, outcast from polite society. His dad was a career criminal who was doing time in San Quentin for armed robbery and attempted murder. His mom was a grocery store clerk with 4 kids from two different dads, and they lived in a crappy two bedroom apartment.



Back in January of 1991, the Gulf War was going full swing, and like many stoner kids, we did what came natural: went home, smoked weed, and watched MTV (I had initially been very interested in the war, but lost interest because no one wanted to explain to me why Hussein was our bosom buddy for 9 years, then publically enemy number one overnight).



Anyway, while we were watching Headbangers ball and killing braincells, we started talking about the war, how bombing people for oil really sucked, and how oil sucked, and the Middle east sucked, and the whole world really sucked. Yeah, I know, mind blowing intellectual stimulation.



Anyway, Phil, who had been tested as a kid to have an incredibly high IQ, started talking about that favorite of conspiracy theories: the gasoline pill. He said he didn't believe it exactly, but that he believed that there were alternatives that were being suppressed, and said he had been giving it alot of thought. He then told me he had been sketching plans and ideas for a car that could run on oxygen, and started drawing out a sketch and explaining his ideas. The plans themselves were probably impractical and undoable , but his basic science, mathematics, and reasoning behind it were pretty damned sound. When it came to applied math, Phil, was a whiz. Though he was in remiedial math, he was there because he always failed his classes because he cut them and never did homework or showed up for tests. But he actually understood trigonometry, because his friend's older brother used talk to him about it while doing homework, and phil would read his math books. He was also brilliant in science, the only class he's ever show up sober for.



he was talking about plans, when he graduated (which he never did, sadly) of buying a Harley and a plot of land out in Nevada, where he could build protypes of engines for his bike. Unfortunately, last I heard from Phil, he was laying asphalt on driveways for some small construction outfit, and had been in jail a few times for drugs and drunk driving.



Phil always had an interest in math and crazy engineering ideas, but do you think his teachers bothered to take notice and encourage this? Nope. He sure as hell wasn't going to get much encouragement at home. Nor did anyone really bother. Because of his background, people would look at him and his general status, and think :future wasteoid. I really think had he been given incentive to pursue his talents, as well as encouragement and better disciplinary measures to keep him off the wrong path, he probably would have been an excellent engineer or scientist. He had the talent, just not the direction and encouragement. And I believe this waste of potential is down to multiple factors in our society, all of which are stupid and shallow I think.

[KnightofPhoenix]

@ Skadi.
It's waste like this that makes my blood boil. The only thing I hate is waste, can't stand it. We have a slightly similar thing, but more political. Our regimes didn't happen to like smart people. They deliberately gave them ****** poor salaries to humiliate them so they go work abroad, after they already refused the best jobs abroad thinking that they can do something back home (another way to humiliate them is to refuse to acknowledge their degree, even if it came from the top universities, except if they did the Arab baccalaureate. Ridiculous). And what pisses me off is them also sending the brightest as ambassadors only, a clear ploy to keep them out of the country.

Now fortunately this is changing, but we went through this period. Even today, there is no appreciation of intelligence and skill as much as it should be. We recognize artistic talents more (and even then judging from video clips, it ends up being how hot they look). It pisses me off, especially when I know that we have very smart people. And I think parents are also to blame for this. Either they want to force their children into a family business they are not good at, or are completely neglecting them.

And this waste is more promiment for women sadly. Such a pity, some of our best and brighest are women. Yet they are not given the attention they deserve. Not only by governments, but by society also.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 21 février 2011 - 10:51 .

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

[quote]KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Wow, your life is really colorful. I don't know if that's the right word and I apologize if it's offensive. [./quote]

No, lol, colorful isn't offensive. My husband has stronger explicatives, but he's English, and has always thought Americans were a bunch of unstable psychotics in the first place.

I don't regret it, though I often wonder if I had decided not to be a slacker. I would have probably gone either into the sciences or music. (I was in the school band until my Junior year, playing flute and percussion). 


[quote]I didn't experience much material / financial problems, so I won't presume to know what it feels. And I was popular with the profs most of the time, cause apparently I was a cute kid lol. What I think I do have however is strong empathy to the big picture and a sense of awareness tha I don't think many around me had. While my friends were talking about girls and competing over who has the biggest dick, I was watching news, reading books and pulling my hair out trying to make sense of what's happening around me. Still, many had it worse than me. And I admit that I am not too far from the elite intellectuals (except we are not really that rich, but our name is big). Except I think I know theoritcally that alone it's useless. As you said here: [/quote]

The problem with intellectual elites is that they are so far removed from reality and day to day life, and prefer to dwell in artistic concepts as a way to run a society that realism.

You were certainly more aware than the majority of kids your age in most societies, as most American kids are pretty similar to what your friends were like, even the more well off ones. In your case, however, you lived in a far more potentially unstable society than I did, where apathy is far more dangerous.


[quote]Agreed, I think that was also the case in the Islamicate civilization. Knowledge was seen as a tool and with practical applicability. No wonder they came up with sociology (Ibn Khaldun) and other fields. One of the greatest Ilsamic scholars, Ibn al-Ghazali, was also very pragmatic and practical in his vision. 
This is the kind of intellectual development that I like. Not philosophy, which I do find interesting, but ends up being useless. [/quote]

I think it's useful as an execise to develop a more "outside the box" mentality for other endeavors. It is useful when it initiates examination and reflection, followed by action, if necessary or desirable.

Greeks:  "Oh, wow, look at this cool theory of triangles we discovered! Isn't is awesome to discuss? Just think, we can sit in here all day and think about all these nifty mathematical puzzles and moral dilemas while we drink wine and fondle smooth young slave boys."

Romans: "Hey, look at all this mathematics stuff we found from conquoring the Greeks! I bet we could use this to build aqueducts which will bring water to our homes and towns, creating luxruious baths where we can drink wine, fondle smooth young slave boys, and discuss which one of our political opponents we plan to ruin next."


[quote]Indeed, that's how I see it. It's revealing of their psyche.

The show also talks about many pressing issues, lke religion, gender, poverty, migration, love...etc etc. In fact I'd almost say it's too crowded, but it's 33 episodes, each 45 minutes, so they have time to develop them well.

[/quote]

A real shame it's not in English, because I like engaging shows that make you think.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...
A real shame it's not in English, because I like engaging shows that make you think.

If I had the time and ptience, I'd put subs lol, but I don't.

It's one of the rare shows that I like, because it has cool characters. Other series just become unpelasant at showing us how everything sucks. Make it interesting, not depressing.

Yes intellectualism is often detached from reality and I think we all know what happened to Europe after the "englithenment". Ironically, it became more violent and destructive than before. And more imperialist. 

Matar I think refers to this if I remember correctly, and said that those great ideas have been thrown to the way side and "survival is for the strongest" (IIRC that's what he said). In Arabic it sounds more impressive though. 

I also love the actor, he's the one who also portrayed Abd al-Rahman al-Dakhil, who ironically says something similar at the end of the series.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

@ Skadi.
It's waste like this that makes my blood boil. The only thing I hate is waste, can't stand it. We have a slightly similar thing, but more political. Our regimes didn't happen to like smart people. They deliberately gave them ****** poor salaries to humiliate them so they go work abroad, after they already refused the best jobs abroad thinking that they can do something back home (another way to humiliate them is to refuse to acknowledge their degree, even if it came from the top universities, except if they did the Arab baccalaureate. Ridiculous). And what pisses me off is them also sending the brightest as ambassadors only, a clear ploy to keep them out of the country.

Now fortunately this is changing, but we went through this period. Even today, there is no appreciation of intelligence and skill as much as it should be. We recognize artistic talents more (and even then judging from video clips, it ends up being how hot they look). It pisses me off, especially when I know that we have very smart people. And I think parents are also to blame for this. Either they want to force their children into a family business they are not good at, or are completely neglecting them.

The brain drain. It's something that is overlooked in the west, in immigration debates: the Great "Third World" brain drain. The best and brightest minds from poorer or more politically volatile countries and regions take their talents to the west and add to our pool, while depriving the home country of another mind that possibly has the talents to cause change for the better. People only rant on the negatives of immigration for us, not the negatives for the people of the home country, when they are on an an anti-immigration rant. 

I think any wise government would invest in it's best and brightest minds, especially in areas of science and economics. One of the few things I possess a certain national pride in, is our space program. I know alot of people who moan about it being a waste of time and money, but frankly, this is about the only area of government where I think they should spend more money. The space program has not only given us amazing amounts of knowledge in science, but much of this has been spilled over into civilian and practical use that we now take for granted.

And in terms of space programs, I feel pretty much the same love for the Russian space program, which in several areas, was superior to our own. My fascination with space came from reading about the achievements and discoveries of both American and Russian astronauts. When I thought of the space race, it was perhaps the brightest part of the cold war. The comeptition was fierce, but healthy, and it was pushing both sides to further push the boundaries of human knowledge and invention.

When it comes to a race to Mars, I don't care who gets there, so long as someone does. Hell, if it was the friggin Taliban that landed a man on Mars, I'd be fust pumping em.

And this waste is more promiment for women sadly. Such a pity, some of our best and brighest are women. Yet they are not given the attention they deserve. Not only by governments, but by society also.

Yeah, that I also know. I learned this in Saudi from one of the local contractors, who had a surprisingly liberal attitude towards women given the rest of his countrymen. He complains that his sister, who was in Germany in college, would see her education and talents go to waste because she was a woman (I think she was studying medicine for research or something) and would have to live elsewhere, away from her family, if she wanted to work in her field, which she did. I also knew this girl from Kuwait who said she would probably not go home, since if she married, she would have been expected to stay home and raise the children.

There's a certain element of that in our society, though not as bad as it was there. While women work in all fields, they tend to make lower salaries than men do, and in some fields that are heavily male dominated, get bullied out or overlooked for advancement or recognition. It has certainly been improving over the years, but in some fields, the Old Boy's Club is still alive and well, and ideas or suggestions, no matter how useful or practical, will get ignored more often than not when they come from a female. There are still a number of males who find intellect or ambition in females revolting or disturbing, and will interfere with, or ignore, contributions more from female employees or collegues.

[Giggles_Manically]

So just to kind of move this back onto Loghain (not like that Skadi) here is a question.

Do you prefer the Loghain Redeemer ending or the Dark Ritual end for Loghain?



Myself I like how good a job Simon T does during the redeemer ending.

Best part?

Please... I have done so much wrong. Allow me to do one last thing right.



That line alone is what finally make me a fan of Loghain and really enjoy the charachter.



I liked seeing that he would give his soul to protect Fereldan and make up for what happened.

I see it as a fitting end myself, how about the rest of you?

[KnightofPhoenix]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...
The brain drain. It's something that is overlooked in the west, in immigration debates: the Great "Third World" brain drain. The best and brightest minds from poorer or more politically volatile countries and regions take their talents to the west and add to our pool, while depriving the home country of another mind that possibly has the talents to cause change for the better. People only rant on the negatives of immigration for us, not the negatives for the people of the home country, when they are on an an anti-immigration rant. 

Yep, and for us it's the reverse. We complain how the west is supposdely stealing our best and birghtest, when we don't realize that we are making those people run away from us. Many of them want to go back, but they can't. 

I think any wise government would invest in it's best and brightest minds, especially in areas of science and economics.

Especially countries like us (like Syria). We don't have that many natural ressources. There is no way we can industrialise as to become competitive globally (the most we can do is for local and maybe regional market). We don't have that many people to have a strong and cheap labour force, aka cheap competitive goods. What else do we have other than human ressources? And thank God, we are a pretty smart people. But we lack the ability to encourage and channel this potential.  

The mind is the most important ressource. To make it brief and not controversial, Israel proved this. We **** and moan that they recieved money from abroad, as if money works on its own. Why couldn't Egypt, who is the 4rth largest recipient of American aid, be half what Israel is? Because they focused on their human ressources, while we didn't. And for that I admire them and think it's about time we start to learn from success, regardless of its source.

The comeptition was fierce, but healthy, and it was pushing both sides to further push the boundaries of human knowledge and invention.

Indeed, I really see advancement as a result of competition. All emires ended up decading because in large part, they became so strong as to lack competition. They decade and revel in luxury, until they become too unpreprared to deal with new competitors.

When it comes to a race to Mars, I don't care who gets there, so long as someone does. Hell, if it was the friggin Taliban that landed a man on Mars, I'd be fust pumping em.

Unlikely those imbeciles would do anything of worth, but I get your point. It would push others to compete harder.

 There are still a number of males who find intellect or ambition in females revolting or disturbing, and will interfere with, or ignore, contributions more from female employees or collegues.

And I find this horrible.
Now to not be compeltely unfair, some worry that both parents working would mean kids not being raised properly. I can see the reasoning behind it and that parents should sacrifice a bit for raising their children. However, they should sacrifice equally. And I find no logic at all with a woman being more qualified than her husband having to stay at home while he works. It should be the reverse. But it's a social issue more than individual. A man not working but relying on his wife would be considered a joke.

It's definitely a hard issue, and I think the family is an important institution to prevent social decadence (which we are experiencing right now). But even still, it doesn't have to be either this or that, at least imo.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 21 février 2011 - 11:55 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

So just to kind of move this back onto Loghain (not like that Skadi) here is a question.
Do you prefer the Loghain Redeemer ending or the Dark Ritual end for Loghain?

Best ending for him is redeemer. Best ending for me is DR.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...
A real shame it's not in English, because I like engaging shows that make you think.

If I had the time and ptience, I'd put subs lol, but I don't.

It's one of the rare shows that I like, because it has cool characters. Other series just become unpelasant at showing us how everything sucks. Make it interesting, not depressing.

About the closest thing to Arab popular culture I saw in Saudi was not even Arabic, nor do I know if it was even popular or not.. It was a Pakistani death metal band on Asian Music TV (and they were actually pretty good, too) that were playing at a concert in Kuwait or somewhere close in the video.

Yes intellectualism is often detached from reality and I think we all know what happened to Europe after the "englithenment". Ironically, it became more violent and destructive than before. And more imperialist. 

Matar I think refers to this if I remember correctly, and said that those great ideas have been thrown to the way side and "survival is for the strongest" (IIRC that's what he said). In Arabic it sounds more impressive though. 

I also love the actor, he's the one who also portrayed Abd al-Rahman al-Dakhil, who ironically says something similar at the end of the series.

Yeah, survival of the fittest. All the most golden and grandest of ideas and intentions turn to dust in the face of survival and necessity. And high ideals have a way of seeping deeply into the darkest recesses of the mind, where they turn diabolical and destructive.

[Morwen Eledhwen]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

So just to kind of move this back onto Loghain (not like that Skadi) here is a question.
Do you prefer the Loghain Redeemer ending or the Dark Ritual end for Loghain?

Myself I like how good a job Simon T does during the redeemer ending.
Best part?
Please... I have done so much wrong. Allow me to do one last thing right.

That line alone is what finally make me a fan of Loghain and really enjoy the charachter.

I liked seeing that he would give his soul to protect Fereldan and make up for what happened.
I see it as a fitting end myself, how about the rest of you?

I haven't done the Redeemer ending yet though I know I must, because everyone says it's so awesome. My Mahariel might let him do it, though I'm not sure --she's been pretty Loghain-sympathetic throughout so he'd pretty much have to convince her to let him die, in which case he'd better have stronger arguments than he gave my Mage. I think my Cousland will be a King-consort in which case I might have that PC do the Redeemer ending. That way Loghain knows his daughter and Ferelden are in good hands and she gets a father who dies heroically to save his people rather than an ex-Teyrn who has to be fostered off on the Grey Wardens. I imagine my Cousland PC to be the political sort, which so far none of my PCs have.


Loghain listens as his daughter renounces him at the Landsmeet.

Modifié par Morwen Eledhwen, 22 février 2011 - 12:20 .

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

[quote]KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Especially countries like us (like Syria). We don't have that many natural ressources. There is no way we can industrialise as to become competitive globally (the most we can do is for local and maybe regional market). We don't have that many people to have a strong and cheap labour force, aka cheap competitive goods. What else do we have other than human ressources? And thank God, we are a pretty smart people. But we lack the ability to encourage and channel this potential.  

[quote] The mind is the most important ressource. To make it brief and not controversial, Israel proved this. We **** and moan that they recieved money from abroad, as if money works on its own. Why couldn't Egypt, who is the 4rth largest recipient of American aid, be half what Israel is? Because they focused on their human ressources, while we didn't. And for that I admire them and think it's about time we start to learn from success, regardless of its source.

[quote]

Totally agree with the bolded part. All the natural resources in the world are nothing but rocks and sludge without the minds to develop them into something useful. Intelligent minds are vital for the survival of any civilization. Brilliant ones for it's prosperity. The mind is the beginning of everything, and what seperates us from the animals.


[quote]Indeed, I really see advancement as a result of competition. All emires ended up decading because in large part, they became so strong as to lack competition. They decade and revel in luxury, until they become too unpreprared to deal with new competitors. [/quote]

Yes, and it's happening now in the US slowly, just as it happened to Rome. In order to survive, one must adapt, and to adapt, one must properly untilize one's strengths. Our national strength has not been industry, but innovation and pushing at the boundaries regardless of prevailing attitudes or beliefs. Like in Syria, most of this is being channeled into the artistic, rather than scientific, fields, and people are still bemoaning the loss of production to China.

What they need to do is realize that by sheer numbers alone, China can outproduce us industrially, as our current technology limits. There is no point in trying to catch up to China in number of exports and production, it's pointless. What we need to do is adapt to this changing world, one we have had a big part in changing the course of, and learn to use our national attributes/talents in adapting in this changing world. Instead of trying to cling to old models and values that not only do not work, we need to come up with new things and new ways of doing things that haven't been tried or considered before. I'm actually also looking forward to China's rise to space, as hopefully, that will wake up the sleepy heads at Nasa and get our space program kicked into gear. Hopefully, the Russians will sort out their problems and join in as well. necessity is the mother of invention, and pride is one of those human necessities. Competition on a technological front is really my dream for the next century.


[quote]And I find this horrible.
Now to not be compeltely unfair, some worry that both parents working would mean kids not being raised properly. I can see the reasoning behind it and that parents should sacrifice a bit for raising their children. However, they should sacrifice equally. And I find no logic at all with a woman being more qualified than her husband having to stay at home while he works. It should be the reverse. But it's a social issue more than individual. A man not working but relying on his wife would be considered a joke.

It's definitely a hard issue, and I think the family is an important institution to prevent social decadence (which we are experiencing right now). But even still, it doesn't have to be either this or that, at least imo.

[/quote]

Agreed on all points, including the family issue. Having one parent working less and spending more time directly involved with the kids is certainly I believe vital to produce happy, productive, and healthy individuals in society. The sex of the parent remaining at home or working part time means nothing to me. My uncle, who looks like and is built like a Viking brute, was a house husband until his son left for college. He had a severe back problem that required several surgeries, and thus, really couldn't work. But even if he could, he didn't, because his wife had a bachelors degree and worked as a dental nurse, while he didn't have a high school diploma and was qualified for unqualified labor. Nor did it make him feel less a man, because he got to spend alot of time with his son, including school field trips, coaching his Pop Warner kiddie football team, and take him to sporting events. You know, all those good old white brean red blooded American male bonding activities. As well as giving what little help he could in homework.

So it doesn't necessarily have to be emsaculating at all, to become a house husband or part time working husband. If the financial and educational situation would be better with it, why the hell not?

I also argue with alot of the more extreme femenists about women who prefer to become housewives, or work part time for supporting income. If it's there choice, and the situation makes sense, and she likes it, why not? She exercised her right to choose her life, and likes to  do it. Good for her, society needs people like her just as much as it needs female engineers and the like.

How much human potential has been wasted because people quickly dismiss superficial aspects such as sex, race, religion, ethnic background, social status, economic status, family, ect, instead of the potential in that person. It is one of those inbred human instincts, to discriminate against individuals different or unfamiliar to one's self, that has not served us well, at least on the broader social level.

It's also one of the reasons I prefer to avoid war, as war eliminates indiscriminately wastes so much unknown potential because of the number of casualties. It's why I have little opposition to other routes diplomatic/political unpleasantries. If a bunch of unecessary death and destruction and loss of human life and potential can be averted, even if it means garotting someone's grandma, it is worth it to me.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

So just to kind of move this back onto Loghain (not like that Skadi) here is a question.
Do you prefer the Loghain Redeemer ending or the Dark Ritual end for Loghain?

Myself I like how good a job Simon T does during the redeemer ending.
Best part?
Please... I have done so much wrong. Allow me to do one last thing right.

That line alone is what finally make me a fan of Loghain and really enjoy the charachter.

I liked seeing that he would give his soul to protect Fereldan and make up for what happened.
I see it as a fitting end myself, how about the rest of you?

While having Loghain sacrifice himself certainly feels epic and awesome and even brings a tear to the eye, I prefer the DR, because if I'm gonna spare Teyrn sexypants and lose Alistair in the process, Loghain's gonna have to take Ali's place in my tent and "work" out his redemption with me personally.

Of course, I also don't like Loghain losing his soul. His soul is too awesome to lose. Plus, if he has no soul, how will my Wardens be able to chase him down in the Fade and molest him eternally?

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Morwen Eledhwen wrote...




Loghain listens as his daughter renounces him at the Landsmeet.

That hurt and shocked look, plus the tone of his voice, when he realizes his own child has turned against him. It is one of the reasons that sometimes, I prefer Anora to betray me at the Landsmeet. There's some sort of deeper realization in him somwhere that his world is irreversably crumbling around him.

[Giggles_Manically]

I kind of feel bad beating Loghain so badly at the Landsmeet.



Seeing only like ONE person speak up for you, and having your only child side against you?

Ouch.



Still its fairly awesome to watch all those people fall in behind you.

[Morwen Eledhwen]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

I prefer the DR, because if I'm gonna spare Teyrn sexypants and lose Alistair in the process, Loghain's gonna have to take Ali's place in my tent and "work" out his redemption with me personally.

This would be another reason why my HNM playthrough will probably be the one to have the Redeemer ending. . .

Actually that begs a question: do any of the Loghain romance mods include a Jealousy crisis? I was just thinking that if my Mahariel were to demand personal "redemption" from Loghain on behalf of her people, I would have one pissed-off redhead in camp. But do the other companions know to be jealous of Loghain? And. . .. . .is there a possibility of a jealous, snarly, hot-blooded Loghain, demanding the Warden's undivided allegiance. . .? :devil:<3

Modifié par Morwen Eledhwen, 22 février 2011 - 09:29 .

[Glorfindel709]

One part specifically I wanted to mention in that giant post Skadi, the bit about America retooling themselves towards their strengths.

While I do agree that catching up to China industrially is impossible and time should not be wasted in doing so, I do believe that America does need to adopt some sort of defensive economic structure and become more self-sufficient. We cannot encourage growth in our country when our laws not only encourage but practically force profit-minded business into other countries.

Americans have proven to be innovative when our asses are on the line, and again when we're coming down from a high point in history. Following our success in WW2 (which was mostly due to the fact that we didnt actually have to fight on our own soil, a mobilization of the population into the labor and production industry, and rapid R&D growth to propel us into the position of best military force on the planet by 1945) the United States entered a period of prosperity that was until that point unimaginable. For a country to bounce back so thoroughly after the Depression and then a war was phenomenal, and our innovation (partially aided by paranoia about the Commies + a surge in both education and scientific understanding) in the following decades created the United States as a global super power in all aspects of Economics, Military, and Political clout.

However, in the 1970s things changed. We went from being a relatively equal mix of production and service industry workers to a huge push of more than 70% service industry with the rest being divided between Agriculture, Production, and Government positions. We went from being the leaders in education, to 18th out of the thirty countries ranked by OECD.

Necessity is the mother of Innovation. But there is no great push currently happening in the United States. On the whole, the population is comfortable with just having the instant gratification of the final product. Mind you, I'm not some great innovator myself. I'm just an Education major (who takes a lot of creative writing courses to pursue a dream of becoming a published novelist) I am however self aware enough to know that when a country decides to slash our Space Program in the interest of floating the bloated diseased systems that are in desperate need of real reform without doing or planning any of that reform, we're in trouble.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
On a Loghain related note, I tend to encourage Anora to betray me just so I dont have to watch a daughter turn on her father infront of the entire nobility of Ferelden. Especially after reading the Calling and discovering just how uncomfortable the Nobility makes him.

Modifié par Glorfindel709, 22 février 2011 - 12:59 .

[Morwen Eledhwen]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

That hurt and shocked look, plus the tone of his voice, when he realizes his own child has turned against him. It is one of the reasons that sometimes, I prefer Anora to betray me at the Landsmeet.

Yes, but then you'd have to support Alistair for king, wouldn't you? I haven't been able to work any of my PCs up to that yet. Mahariel came closest, brokering a marriage deal between Anora and Alistair before she spared Loghain and it all went south.

Just for giggles, Skadi, have Loghain trounce you in the Landsmeet duel one of these days. I know it doesn't often happen, as he's nerfed pretty significantly for any PC to be able to beat him, but these screenshots I've been posting have come at the price of 3 or 4 lost Landsmeet duels. I play on the PS3, so my "screenshots" are literally me sitting about 2 feet from my TV screen and snapping pictures of it on my camera phone as the action progresses. So the sequence for me is, hold camera steady, snap, decide to keep or reject photo, return to camera mode, snap, oh dammit the duel is starting, throw down camera phone, pick up controller, return to couch. This proved problematic for my Mahariel. As you know, Loghain's first act in the duel is a War Cry, which on its own could knock your PC down, and then right after that he rushes at you to knock you down with his shield, or his body, or I can't tell which because the Warden is by this time wetting her knickers in terror. If you don't do something to interrupt this tactic of his ASAP, the duel can go very badly for you. And my Mahariel is an archer, so thus requires that much extra time to draw that first shot even with Rapid aim and everything. Losing her an additional second or two because I was fiddling around trying (unsuccessfully) to get good pre-duel faceoff/staredown shots, meant my poor archer spent a lot of time on her back (and not in a nice way) or running around the Landsmeet chamber going "Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeek! Somebody help meeeeeee!" Loghain thought this was hilarious and taunted her mercilessly --and I hate to say it, but it was kinda hot. He kills you with such delicious scorn. . .

Modifié par Morwen Eledhwen, 22 février 2011 - 01:19 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...
Totally agree with the bolded part. All the natural resources in the world are nothing but rocks and sludge without the minds to develop them into something useful. Intelligent minds are vital for the survival of any civilization. Brilliant ones for it's prosperity. The mind is the beginning of everything, and what seperates us from the animals.

Indeed, and that's why I personally reject the idea of totalitarianism. To plug everything into the state. Brilliant individuals usually need space, and arise from healthy societies. The state can't breed brilliant minds, no matter how hard they try imo.  The true strength of a state is in the strength and dynamism of its society. Unfortunately, what we took from the West is strong states, but we forgot the importance of civil society or more accurately, our regimes were afraid of them.  That said, social dynamism needs a strong and efficient state to channel and direct it imo.

Yes, and it's happening now in the US slowly, just as it happened to Rome. In order to survive, one must adapt, and to adapt, one must properly untilize one's strengths. Our national strength has not been industry, but innovation and pushing at the boundaries regardless of prevailing attitudes or beliefs. Like in Syria, most of this is being channeled into the artistic, rather than scientific, fields, and people are still bemoaning the loss of production to China.

Yea I think China is probably one of the very few nations who appear to have some sort of a plan for the future. They know what they want. And they are going to work for it.
But they did require time to wake up to reality (opium wars, Sino-Japanese wars..etc).

So it doesn't necessarily have to be emsaculating at all, to become a house husband or part time working husband. If the financial and educational situation would be better with it, why the hell not?

Unfortuantely it's still a prevailing social attitude. Such things are hard to change.

I admit, even I sometimes raise an eyebrow at the idea, before stopping for a few seconds and revising my reaction. Things like that require time, but with activism.

It's also one of the reasons I prefer to avoid war, as war eliminates indiscriminately wastes so much unknown potential because of the number of casualties. It's why I have little opposition to other routes diplomatic/political unpleasantries. If a bunch of unecessary death and destruction and loss of human life and potential can be averted, even if it means garotting someone's grandma, it is worth it to me.

I think some wars can be less bloody than others, with a sense of pragmatism and moderation. But I agree, it should really be s a last resort when you are incapable of doing anything else.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 22 février 2011 - 01:10 .

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Glorfindel709 wrote...


While I do agree that catching up to China industrially is impossible and time should not be wasted in doing so, I do believe that America does need to adopt some sort of defensive economic structure and become more self-sufficient. We cannot encourage growth in our country when our laws not only encourage but practically force profit-minded business into other countries.

We do need to find a self sustaining economy, I agree, especially if China is going to be the major production power globally. Because if China and the US should turn openly and directly hostile, (which is possible with Taiwan, as I don't see either side backing down), it would be stupid to allow China to have us by the economic balls.

However, I do not believe it is laws really that drive business overseas as much as other factors do, mainly labor and costs. Cost of living in the US is higher than many of the countries jobs are exported to, and thus, wages must reflect this for the average American worker to survive. By the skin of their teeth, with lots of roomates, a person might barely get by on minimum wage, which last time I lived there, Federally, was 5.75 an hour. However, there are guys in other countries who are happy to earn a couple dolars a day, and there is no way an American worker can compete on that front, either. Our standard of living would drop dramatically.

Americans have proven to be innovative when our asses are on the line, and again when we're coming down from a high point in history. Following our success in WW2 (which was mostly due to the fact that we didnt actually have to fight on our own soil, a mobilization of the population into the labor and production industry, and rapid R&D growth to propel us into the position of best military force on the planet by 1945) the United States entered a period of prosperity that was until that point unimaginable. For a country to bounce back so thoroughly after the Depression and then a war was phenomenal, and our innovation (partially aided by paranoia about the Commies + a surge in both education and scientific understanding) in the following decades created the United States as a global super power in all aspects of Economics, Military, and Political clout.

However, in the 1970s things changed. We went from being a relatively equal mix of production and service industry workers to a huge push of more than 70% service industry with the rest being divided between Agriculture, Production, and Government positions. We went from being the leaders in education, to 18th out of the thirty countries ranked by OECD.

The 1970's also saw the birth and rise of the personal computer, which changed life everywhere in many areas. Our raw production power and ability to compete with foreign markets dropped in these years, but they also gave rise to even bigger innovations. Dissastisfaction and cultural revolutions spawn innovations as well.

Necessity is the mother of Innovation. But there is no great push currently happening in the United States. On the whole, the population is comfortable with just having the instant gratification of the final product. Mind you, I'm not some great innovator myself. I'm just an Education major (who takes a lot of creative writing courses to pursue a dream of becoming a published novelist) I am however self aware enough to know that when a country decides to slash our Space Program in the interest of floating the bloated diseased systems that are in desperate need of real reform without doing or planning any of that reform, we're in trouble.

This I know, which is why I am concerned, and believe a major cultural and political shake up is needed. We need actual long term reforms and a rational look at the network of programs and budgetary black holes, and make cuts without prejudice, for starters. But I think this economic hard time will also bring about innovations in the future, since economic crises anywhere usually spur different types of innovation, in different areas.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Morwen Eledhwen wrote...



Yes, but then you'd have to support Alistair for king, wouldn't you? I haven't been able to work any of my PCs up to that yet. Mahariel came closest, brokering a marriage deal between Anora and Alistair before she spared Loghain and it all went south.

Not necessarily. You can still put Anora on the throne if she betrayed you, so long as you kill Loghain. You still get to decide. And one can actually be impressed by her devious betrayal, and decide she indeed deserves the throne more.

Just for giggles, Skadi, have Loghain trounce you in the Landsmeet duel one of these days. I know it doesn't often happen, as he's nerfed pretty significantly for any PC to be able to beat him, but these screenshots I've been posting have come at the price of 3 or 4 lost Landsmeet duels. I play on the PS3, so my "screenshots" are literally me sitting about 2 feet from my TV screen and snapping pictures of it on my camera phone as the action progresses. So the sequence for me is, hold camera steady, snap, decide to keep or reject photo, return to camera mode, snap, oh dammit the duel is starting, throw down camera phone, pick up controller, return to couch. This proved problematic for my Mahariel. As you know, Loghain's first act in the duel is a War Cry, which on its own could knock your PC down, and then right after that he rushes at you to knock you down with his shield, or his body, or I can't tell which because the Warden is by this time wetting her knickers in terror. If you don't do something to interrupt this tactic of his ASAP, the duel can go very badly for you. And my Mahariel is an archer, so thus requires that much extra time to draw that first shot even with Rapid aim and everything. Losing her an additional second or two because I was fiddling around trying (unsuccessfully) to get good pre-duel faceoff/staredown shots, meant my poor archer spent a lot of time on her back (and not in a nice way) or running around the Landsmeet chamber going "Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeek! Somebody help meeeeeee!" Loghain thought this was hilarious and taunted her mercilessly --and I hate to say it, but it was kinda hot. He kills you with such delicious scorn. . .

Oh my god....being mocked and chased around the Landsmeet meet chamber by a predatory and triumphant Loghain who just bumrushed you with his 50-year old hard body and is zeroing in for the kill, like my Warden is some prized game animal whose flesh he wishes to devour...........

It would not be terror I would be wetting my knickers with......:wub::wub::wub::wub:

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...


Yea I think China is probably one of the very few nations who appear to have some sort of a plan for the future. They know what they want. And they are going to work for it.
But they did require time to wake up to reality (opium wars, Sino-Japanese wars..etc).

A coherent plan for the future, I believe, is essential for any country to prosper. It's been our biggest failure in the last 30 or so years, no longer term plans or visions or goals for the future, at least not realistic or coherent ones.

[Glorfindel709]

You know Skadi, in that situation the term "going for the kill" would be literal. Your knickers, armor, leathers, pretty much every article of clothing and possibly the floor beneath you would be wet with blood. :-p
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

What I meant with our very laws chasing business out is primarily in the area of factory work - insurance, safety regulations, and wages + dealing with unions. Those are some of the biggest four that have encouraged business in Florida and other southern states to move to greener(with money) poorer pastures to find cheap work where they can cut significant costs by not doing an equipment overhaul ever 6-12 months (part of my economics classes were to work with business owners to get a perspective of why the corporate world makes the decisions they get, that's the basic low-down I got from my business owner who has 65% of what he produces made overseas and shipped here for sale.

Modifié par Glorfindel709, 22 février 2011 - 01:44 .

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

[quote]Glorfindel709 wrote...

You know Skadi, in that situation the term "going for the kill" would be literal. Your knickers, armor, leathers, pretty much every article of clothing and possibly the floor beneath you would be wet with blood. :-p
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I know. the whole thing just screams HAWT!!!!!!!!!!:wub::wub:

[quote]What I meant with our very laws chasing business out is primarily in the area of factory work - insurance, safety regulations, and wages + dealing with unions. Those are some of the biggest four that have encouraged business in Florida and other southern states to move to greener(with money) poorer pastures to find cheap work where they can cut significant costs by not doing an equipment overhaul ever 6-12 months (part of my economics classes were to work with business owners to get a perspective of why the corporate world makes the decisions they get, that's the basic low-down I got from my business owner who has 65% of what he produces made overseas and shipped here for sale.
[/quote]

The uniopns and labor laws are a problem in some states, but in others, mainly "right to work" states, labor laws are lax and the unions aren't as big a problem. I've worked a few factory jobs in California and Washington, which are right to work states with more open shops than not, and all but one were union free. As far as safety regulations, I've seen alot of them get bypassed with little to no consequence, as well as some pretty blatant violations of labor laws, because enforcement is so lax and half-hearted. For some businesses, it might be an issue, but it wasn't for the ones I've worked for.

And all the ridiculous tax breaks and consessions made to Boeing did not keep them from closing down a couple plants and moving it's headquarters to Chicago, and outsourcing alot of it's parts and production overseas. Boeing has a pretty big union, yet even eventual consessions from the union did not prevent the job losses.

I'm not a fan of unions and ridiculous labor safety ragulations that are expensive and impractical, and agree in some places, it is a strong deciding factor for a business to leave. But I think more often than not, companies move where they can squeeze the most out of their operation, and this basically means setting up shop and paying workers pennies in countries with little to no even basic safety precautions, often working in really deplorable and dangerous conditions. Something that is simply  unacceptable in our country. We really don't want to go back to the days where losing an arm on the job was not only common, but brutal as there was no compensation and little support. 

Thus, I think instead, we need to turn our focus instead  on developing newer ways of doing things, more practical economic models, and industries that that favor at least moderate education and skill over unskilled, cheap production. Things that are more practically made at home than overseas.

[Glorfindel709]

Agree with you there Skadi. The answer, as always, lies in technological and social advancement.