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[Giggles_Manically]

Which is why I wait for new games to get patched before buying.



Missed all the bugs in New Vegas because I waited for the patches.

[Addai]

It's not that much different from Origins, really. Origins was set up so that for the casual player, Loghain was the bad guy, you could kill him and go on your merry way, not knowing or maybe caring that there was more to the story. Now that they're having to simplify even more, it's like the blog version of the Origins story- very limited and colored by the opinion of the protagonist.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Addai67 wrote...

It's not that much different from Origins, really. Origins was set up so that for the casual player, Loghain was the bad guy, you could kill him and go on your merry way, not knowing or maybe caring that there was more to the story. Now that they're having to simplify even more, it's like the blog version of the Origins story- very limited and colored by the opinion of the protagonist.

Which is why I am very worried vis a vis the Qunari.

I was happy that there is no ancient "evil" coming to destroy the world in DA2 (apparently at least), but if they turn the Qunari into "bad guys" because the casual player can't be bothered to think before killing, then I'd be very dissapointed. 

[USArmyParatrooper]

Isn't there dialogue somewhere with Sten, where he implies the Qunari were planning on conquering Ferelden?

[KnightofPhoenix]

YES! Total War Shogun has the Oda and Tokugawa clans!

[Addai]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

It's not that much different from Origins, really. Origins was set up so that for the casual player, Loghain was the bad guy, you could kill him and go on your merry way, not knowing or maybe caring that there was more to the story. Now that they're having to simplify even more, it's like the blog version of the Origins story- very limited and colored by the opinion of the protagonist.

Which is why I am very worried vis a vis the Qunari.

I was happy that there is no ancient "evil" coming to destroy the world in DA2 (apparently at least), but if they turn the Qunari into "bad guys" because the casual player can't be bothered to think before killing, then I'd be very dissapointed. 

Well you know what I think about the territorial ambitions of those aspiring to world domination.  Sooo... *cracks knuckles*... bring it, Arishok. 

[Giggles_Manically]

I think its more that Bioware will simplify the Qunari and the Qun as an all evil force of monsters who seek power and domination.

[Morwen Eledhwen]

And cookies. . .



*Sigh* I'm trying to bring some sort of lightness to this, but this is actually quite depressing. My two favorite companions in DA:O are Loghain and Sten. Now it sounds like if I want to play DA2, I have to either give up my allegiances or grit my teeth as their names and/or kind are vilified.

Modifié par Morwen Eledhwen, 24 février 2011 - 09:48 .

[CalJones]

Tell me about it. Don't even get me started on the horns.

Is there any outcry about the demo (related to Loghain) on the DA2 board? (I really can't be bothered to look there - last time I did it was full of kiddy trolls).

[Eber]

USArmyParatrooper wrote...

Isn't there dialogue somewhere with Sten, where he implies the Qunari were planning on conquering Ferelden?

Sten: The day will come when the arishok sends us here. On that day I will not look to find you on the battlefield.
Warden: You think the qunari will invade Ferelden?
Sten: In time.
---------------------
Alistair: So I suppose once I'm actually king I could end up in negotiations with the qunari one day.
Sten: My people do not negotiate.
Alistair: What do you mean? They negotiated a peace treaty after the war, and as far as I know they've kept to its terms.
Sten: They signed a piece of paper. But only because they knew that you believed in it.
Alistair: And what is the difference between that and negotiating?
Sten: They stopped fighting for their own reasons. And they will resume it again, one day. The agreement means nothing to them.
Alistair: But I thought you said your people believed in honor.
Sten: They do. The honor of the qunari is what will bring our warships back to your shores.

Modifié par Eber, 25 février 2011 - 12:18 .

[Addai]

CalJones wrote...

Tell me about it. Don't even get me started on the horns.
Is there any outcry about the demo (related to Loghain) on the DA2 board? (I really can't be bothered to look there - last time I did it was full of kiddy trolls).

Nope.  Only mention I've seen of it was made by me.    But, there is a lot of hate n' debate over other things, so this probably didn't even register for a lot of people.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Best way to ****** Costin off. When he imports, he will get Alistair unhardened as king and Harrowmont as king

And Avernus will be secretly creating an army of Cammen clones to serve them both.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Best way to ****** Costin off. When he imports, he will get Alistair unhardened as king and Harrowmont as king

And Avernus will be secretly creating an army of Cammen clones to serve them both.

And further empower the banns by giving them those armies for free. And enourage more decentralization. 

[Addai]

All the better for Anora's wily plans to have them kill each other off, KoP.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Not by letting them have large armies to do so, that would paralyze the system and cause more death than is necessary. What they need is mercenary groups like the blackstone irregulars to do that for them, like they used to. A main reason why I chose to help them.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 25 février 2011 - 05:30 .

[Joy Divison]

Yeah I have to say I am a bit dismayed at the negative portrayal of Loghain in DA2. I guess I shouldn't be surprised but for those of us who have delved a bit deeper into his character, it is very disappointing.

Loghain is potrayed negatively bc/ the source of Varric's information is Hawke (and/or brother) who was abandoned at Ostagar.

[Costin_Razvan]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

YES! Total War Shogun has the Oda and Tokugawa clans!

What's annoying is that at the historical battle of Sekigahara you play as Mitsunari, but great game from what I saw in the demo.

 Best way to ****** Costin off. When he imports, he will get Alistair unhardened as king and Harrowmont as king

Then I would rage, hard.

 Loghain is potrayed negatively bc/ the source of Varric's information is Hawke (and/or brother) who was abandoned at Ostagar.

I can understand Carver and Aveline.

But having your PC state it was a betrayal is what pisses me off the most.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 25 février 2011 - 07:15 .

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Addai67 wrote...

All the better for Anora's wily plans to have them kill each other off, KoP.

With Cammen clones? I knew Anora was ruthless, I never knew she was a complete sadist...

[Giggles_Manically]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

All the better for Anora's wily plans to have them kill each other off, KoP.

With Cammen clones? I knew Anora was ruthless, I never knew she was a complete sadist...

That coming from you indicates just how horrible it was.

[Joy Divison]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

 Loghain is potrayed negatively bc/ the source of Varric's information is Hawke (and/or brother) who was abandoned at Ostagar.

I can understand Carver and Aveline.

But having your PC state it was a betrayal is what pisses me off the most.

Well, the PC did not read The Calling, was there at Ostagar left to be overwhelmed by darkspawn (or had family there), and is running for his life having to abandon his home.  Had the PC praised Loghain's strategy it would have broke immersion more than the 40 foot leaps he can execute as a rogue...

[Addai]

Joy Divison wrote...

Costin_Razvan wrote...

 Loghain is potrayed negatively bc/ the source of Varric's information is Hawke (and/or brother) who was abandoned at Ostagar.

I can understand Carver and Aveline.

But having your PC state it was a betrayal is what pisses me off the most.

Well, the PC did not read The Calling, was there at Ostagar left to be overwhelmed by darkspawn (or had family there), and is running for his life having to abandon his home.  Had the PC praised Loghain's strategy it would have broke immersion more than the 40 foot leaps he can execute as a rogue...

That was true of a lot of people in Lothering, I imagine, and yet the opinion we hear on the ground in Origins is mixed.  Not so much this time around.  If they had just one character say "the battle was a rout, we don't really know what happened"- which would indicate a sensible rather than an emotional reaction- then that would be enough.  Instead you have all the people who comment doing so with ironclad certainty when that is simply not possible for people who were fighting for their lives.

[MKDAWUSS]

ZeroDotZero wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

DA2 is definitely painting black over Loghain. Since the line about Cailan being betrayed wasn't in the actual dialogue choices, it came as a surprise, too. Boooooo.  This did not fit the more nuanced presentation in Origins, where some common folk were blaming the Wardens, many thought Cailan was foolish etc.

Hawke or Carver was at Ostagar, and they probably considered Loghain a traitor, and thus they told Varric he betrayed the king. It makes sense to me.

By the time Varric is being interrogated by Cassie, the second opinion of "Loghain cut his losses and could do nothing to rescue Cailan" would have spread more prominently, especially if Loghain became a Grey Warden and could reinforce that position.

Also, the Ostagar survivors in Hawke's party are just as responsible for letting the king die. Ain't that right, Wynne?

[Costin_Razvan]

Addai: Actually we have Carver something exactly along those lines. His exact words are: "Then you saw how the whole of the army was defeated."

[KnightofPhoenix]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

YES! Total War Shogun has the Oda and Tokugawa clans!

What's annoying is that at the historical battle of Sekigahara you play as Mitsunari, but great game from what I saw in the demo.

Yea I know. Still, it's a nice battle.

Though I am dissapointed they didn't show Tokugawa firing on Hideaki, so he can join him. One of the most risky and brilliant maneuvers deserves a cutscene.

[Costin_Razvan]

I loved the game. After NTW it feels good to get back into the melee action!