That's why I said "envy." You would just have preferred it was your country stealing and raping rather than the other way around.Costin_Razvan wrote...
So you just envy the empires, rather than condemn them. Whatever dude. Talk about my attitude being hypocritical.
Envy? You fail to understand the point: I like the whole concept of an Empire, what I hate is that my nation ( despite having the opportunity ) remained a backwater nation who now falls to it's knees in politics because of our non-expansionist policy over the centuries and as a result living conditions here have been and are still poor.
Why Teyrn Loghain is the deepest character in Dragon Age
Débuté par
Irish Guerrilla
, août 15 2010 05:21
#8151
Posté 26 février 2011 - 10:36
Addai
-
- Members
- 25 850 messages
Retour en haut
#8152
Posté 26 février 2011 - 10:54
USArmyParatrooper
-
- Members
- 399 messages
Joy Divison wrote...
Just to throw a monkey in the wrench with those "rogue state" and "mad-dictator" theories of weapons of mass destruction: the only state to wage atomic warfare was the very stable and democratic United States when it had all but militarily won the war it was waging. This same entity has consistently and adamantly maintained that atomic warfare was an integral and legitimate part of its military doctrine...even it its attempt to convince the UN of the case for an Iraq invasion in 2003, the US refused to preclude their use in certain circumstances.
And Hitler had chemical weapons he didn't use even after issuing a Nero-order. Stalin didn't use them either.
Costin: I can appreciate your desire not to have the developers speak (via Hawke) for you.
Also correct me if I am wrong, the people who lived in what in now Romania never really had the opportunity to engage in empire building. With the Romans, Huns, Bulgars, German crusaders, Mongols, Turks, Poles, and Russians roaming around the mouth of the Danube for the past 2000 years or so it would have proven rather difficult I would imagine...
yes, yes. The US is an evil empire. Who are you even addressing?
#8153
Posté 26 février 2011 - 11:10
Joy Divison
-
- Members
- 1 837 messages
USArmyParatrooper wrote...
yes, yes. The US is an evil empire. Who are you even addressing?
Hmm...did I say that?
*re-reads post*
Nope.
#8154
Posté 26 février 2011 - 11:26
USArmyParatrooper
-
- Members
- 399 messages
Joy Divison wrote...
USArmyParatrooper wrote...
yes, yes. The US is an evil empire. Who are you even addressing?
Hmm...did I say that?
*re-reads post*
Nope.
You're making a direct comparison of the United States to the likes of Stalin and Hitler, and attempting to portray them as being on a higher moral plane. And BTW, Hitler did use chemical weapons as well as sticking Jews in poison gas chambers.
And regardless of your opinion on the bombings of Nagasaki and Hiroshima (which itself can be an endless debate) that happened 65 years ago when nuclear bombs were brand new and experimental. This is hardly indicative of US policy to date, nor does it give any indication of when, where or why we would use them in 2011 and beyond.
#8155
Posté 26 février 2011 - 11:48
Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
-
- Members
- 6 382 messages
The bombing of Hiroshima and nagasaki took place during a full scale war. A war in which they were full particpants in, and initiated hostilities with us. We did not drop the bomb because of some great divine mad plan to take over the world, we did so to bring an absolute end to what had already been an unprecedented bloody conflict.
Nor were the complete consequences of nuclear wafare understood at the time. Scientists were just beginning to understand the long term effects of radiation on people, and the signifigance of radioactive decay/half lifes. Nuclear winter was a completely unknown theory. We discovered and used a powerful, descisive weapon before we fully understood the full consequences of such weaponry.
Which is why we have not used them since, and wish to avoid using them. The nukes we have now make Little Boy and Fat Man look like firecrackers. Hence, even less reason to use them unless absolutely necessary.
Nor were the complete consequences of nuclear wafare understood at the time. Scientists were just beginning to understand the long term effects of radiation on people, and the signifigance of radioactive decay/half lifes. Nuclear winter was a completely unknown theory. We discovered and used a powerful, descisive weapon before we fully understood the full consequences of such weaponry.
Which is why we have not used them since, and wish to avoid using them. The nukes we have now make Little Boy and Fat Man look like firecrackers. Hence, even less reason to use them unless absolutely necessary.
#8156
Posté 27 février 2011 - 12:10
Joy Divison
-
- Members
- 1 837 messages
USArmyParatrooper wrote...
You're making a direct comparison of the United States to the likes of Stalin and Hitler, and attempting to portray them as being on a higher moral plane. And BTW, Hitler did use chemical weapons as well as sticking Jews in poison gas chambers.
And regardless of your opinion on the bombings of Nagasaki and Hiroshima (which itself can be an endless debate) that happened 65 years ago when nuclear bombs were brand new and experimental. This is hardly indicative of US policy to date, nor does it give any indication of when, where or why we would use them in 2011 and beyond.
Morality has nothing to do with my argument; that's you're own (incorrect and speculative) assumption. My point was that the common assertion that it's only the rogue states, unstable regimes, ideological zealots, etc. that are a meance with WMDs that was made the previous two pages is problematic given the history of their use and non-use.
Just because Hitler didn't waged chemical warfare against belligerents does not make him any more moral than the next random genocidal leader; just that the assumption of who would use them seems overly simplified
Modifié par Joy Divison, 27 février 2011 - 12:11 .
#8157
Posté 27 février 2011 - 12:15
USArmyParatrooper
-
- Members
- 399 messages
Joy Divison wrote...
Morality has nothing to do with my argument; that's you're own (incorrect and speculative) assumption. My point was that the common assertion that it's only the rogue states, unstable regimes, ideological zealots, etc. that are a meance with WMDs that was made the previous two pages is problematic given the history of their use and non-use.
Just because Hitler didn't waged chemical warfare against belligerents does not make him any more moral than the next random genocidal leader; just that the assumption of who would use them seems overly simplified
Well which non-rogue states with a stable regime would you say is a menace with their WMDs?
#8158
Posté 27 février 2011 - 01:45
Joy Divison
-
- Members
- 1 837 messages
Non-rogue states and stable regimes are fluid, not constant. Even if a regime is stable and non-rogue, as you say, does not mean its citizens lack the motivation or means to use WMDs independent of their country's wishes.
#8159
Posté 27 février 2011 - 02:02
USArmyParatrooper
-
- Members
- 399 messages
Joy Divison wrote...
Non-rogue states and stable regimes are fluid, not constant. Even if a regime is stable and non-rogue, as you say, does not mean its citizens lack the motivation or means to use WMDs independent of their country's wishes.
That doesn't make sense. Did you mean that in reverse, their governments using WMD's independent of their citizen's wishes? With stable states, particularly democratic ones, I find it extraordinarily unlikely they would use WMD except in response to it being used on them. Perhaps you have a specific example of a stable country where you disagree?
#8161
Posté 27 février 2011 - 06:05
Joy Divison
-
- Members
- 1 837 messages
USArmyParatrooper wrote...
Joy Divison wrote...
Non-rogue states and stable regimes are fluid, not constant. Even if a regime is stable and non-rogue, as you say, does not mean its citizens lack the motivation or means to use WMDs independent of their country's wishes.
That doesn't make sense. Did you mean that in reverse, their governments using WMD's independent of their citizen's wishes? With stable states, particularly democratic ones, I find it extraordinarily unlikely they would use WMD except in response to it being used on them. Perhaps you have a specific example of a stable country where you disagree?
No, I meant what I said. Not every citizen feels beholden to the government of the country he lives in. Know the reason the Soviet Union was able to develop its own atomic bomb so quickly was because numerous US and UK citizens willingly let them in on the secret. One need not be an avid fan of 24 or James Bond to imagine scenarios in which the potential suppliers of WMDs goes beyond persons from the former Soviet Union.
In any rate, the thread should return to why Teyrn Loghain is the deepest character in Dragon Age. He most certainly wouldn't sell nuclear secrets to the Orlesians
#8164
Posté 27 février 2011 - 08:02
CalJones
-
- Members
- 3 205 messages
Liked the new chapter, Addai - it's all coming to a head, I see. I always look forward to your new chapters - I'll be quite bereft when you finish it.
#8165
Posté 27 février 2011 - 08:15
Addai
-
- Members
- 25 850 messages
Well hopefully you'll be bereft and satisfied.CalJones wrote...
Liked the new chapter, Addai - it's all coming to a head, I see. I always look forward to your new chapters - I'll be quite bereft when you finish it.
Here's a link for others BTW: Chapter 23
Modifié par Addai67, 27 février 2011 - 08:15 .
#8166
Posté 27 février 2011 - 08:41
Morwen Eledhwen
-
- Members
- 1 067 messages
Addai67 wrote...
Well hopefully you'll be bereft and satisfied.CalJones wrote...
Liked the new chapter, Addai - it's all coming to a head, I see. I always look forward to your new chapters - I'll be quite bereft when you finish it.
Here's a link for others BTW: Chapter 23
*gulps down sense of foreboding after reading Chapter 23*
I've got a baaaaaad feeling about this. . .
#8167
Posté 27 février 2011 - 08:56
KnightofPhoenix
-
- Members
- 21 527 messages
Is Cailan still being more moronic than usual, or is he finally dead?
#8168
Posté 27 février 2011 - 09:55
Addai
-
- Members
- 25 850 messages
Read it and see.KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Is Cailan still being more moronic than usual, or is he finally dead?
#8169
Posté 28 février 2011 - 11:55
Persephone
-
- Members
- 7 989 messages
#8170
Posté 28 février 2011 - 03:10
Morwen Eledhwen
-
- Members
- 1 067 messages
Persephone wrote...
www.fanfiction.net/s/6087280/11/The_Edge_Of_The_Grey_Enigma Lookie at this! An UPDATE! Oh my!
is right. Poor Alistair --once again his role is as the guy on the sidelines watching while the good stuff happens elsewhere. 
Nice job on the smut. It's easy to make fun of badly-written smut until you realize how difficult it is to write well. I'm kind of dreading when it's finally my turn.I feel like such a slacker, taking so long between updates (though Chapter 4 is nearing completion, at last. . .)
#8171
Posté 28 février 2011 - 04:41
Giggles_Manically
-
- Members
- 13 708 messages
So... just learned that my history professor plays Dragon Age: Origins and loves it.
KoP you would love this guy since he likes: Bhelen, Loghain, Anora, and Sten quite a bit.
He saw me playing in a lounge just now and started talking to me about it.
While playing he did wonder about something:
Say 200 years after Origins end what would a historical text say about Loghain?
Depening on if he:
Was executed in the Landsmeet (with either Alistair and Anora as solo monarch)
Killed the Archdemon
Lived and became a Grey Warden
He was interested in the game and has actually pre-ordered DA2 as of now.
He said he was almost tempted to do a little write up about what it would be like to read a text on it from a scholar.
My prof just got to be about 10 times more cool.
KoP you would love this guy since he likes: Bhelen, Loghain, Anora, and Sten quite a bit.
He saw me playing in a lounge just now and started talking to me about it.
While playing he did wonder about something:
Say 200 years after Origins end what would a historical text say about Loghain?
Depening on if he:
Was executed in the Landsmeet (with either Alistair and Anora as solo monarch)
Killed the Archdemon
Lived and became a Grey Warden
He was interested in the game and has actually pre-ordered DA2 as of now.
He said he was almost tempted to do a little write up about what it would be like to read a text on it from a scholar.
My prof just got to be about 10 times more cool.
#8172
Posté 28 février 2011 - 05:08
KnightofPhoenix
-
- Members
- 21 527 messages
Well he is a history professor. Kind of hard not to like Bhelen and Anora for starters, and Loghain as well.
He's awesome! Yea, it is interesting to see how Loghain will be remembered. I think eventually, a revisionist history is going to revisit him and try to set aside any exaggerations, both positive and negative. At least I hope so, and I hope the same will happen with the historiography of the Tevinter Imperium.
He's awesome! Yea, it is interesting to see how Loghain will be remembered. I think eventually, a revisionist history is going to revisit him and try to set aside any exaggerations, both positive and negative. At least I hope so, and I hope the same will happen with the historiography of the Tevinter Imperium.
Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 28 février 2011 - 05:08 .
#8173
Posté 28 février 2011 - 05:15
Giggles_Manically
-
- Members
- 13 708 messages
Yeah my prof was thinking that if Alistair became solo king he would try and wipe out any good thing about Loghain's legend, like what some Pharaohs did to their predecessors. While if it was Anora she would make him even more of a legend. If the redeemer ending happened.
Oh his fave origin? Dwarf Noble.
Hands down.
Oh his fave origin? Dwarf Noble.
Hands down.
#8174
Posté 28 février 2011 - 05:19
KnightofPhoenix
-
- Members
- 21 527 messages
Yes, I can see Alistair performing a "De-Loghainisation". Because you know, that's the most important thing at stake in Ferelden. While Anora would probably seek to over-glorify him if he sacrificed himself, in part for political purposes (legitimacy of her regime / family, symbolic leverage on Orlais...etc).
And yea, your prof is a badass. Dwarf Noble is my favorite origin as well.
And yea, your prof is a badass. Dwarf Noble is my favorite origin as well.
Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 28 février 2011 - 05:19 .
#8175
Posté 28 février 2011 - 05:23
Giggles_Manically
-
- Members
- 13 708 messages
I liked what he said:
You really felt like a weight was on top of you the whole time.
There was all these expectations, and intrigue and then POW, BHELENIZED.
Although best thing he said:
I cant say Flemeth ever, I keep saying: ITS CAPTAIN JANEWAY!
Yeah my prof is a bit of a trekkie too.
I dont think he likes Alistair that much truth be told.
He was like "Yeah that guy... guess some might find him funny."
It took him like five minutes to say:
Err no, just no I know your type of leader Harrowmont"
I forget that he also is a pol sci teacher too.
edit-Best line he ever said though:
You can somewhat trace the fall to Rome to all those damned German tourists who decided to stay.
You really felt like a weight was on top of you the whole time.
There was all these expectations, and intrigue and then POW, BHELENIZED.
Although best thing he said:
I cant say Flemeth ever, I keep saying: ITS CAPTAIN JANEWAY!
Yeah my prof is a bit of a trekkie too.
I dont think he likes Alistair that much truth be told.
He was like "Yeah that guy... guess some might find him funny."
It took him like five minutes to say:
Err no, just no I know your type of leader Harrowmont"
I forget that he also is a pol sci teacher too.
edit-Best line he ever said though:
You can somewhat trace the fall to Rome to all those damned German tourists who decided to stay.
Modifié par Giggles_Manically, 28 février 2011 - 05:26 .
