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[Costin_Razvan]

However, your "solution" was to take them on directly quite soon after the country's forces had been decimated by the Blight and civil war,

I don't think I ever argued for an immediate war, after the Blight just ends, with Orlais. I may not have specified but my solution was never to begin a war asap with Orlais but to rebuild and then invade Orlais.

I view it vital to revitalize the economy, and I think mages can help with that ( or at least Arvenus must know some tricks to get rid of Blighted land no? ), secure an alliance with Orzammar, secure the Werewolf support, make changes to the Circle of Magi so that I can use them in my army atm.

And hell the most important, create a REAL army not a bunch of companies drawn together from various noble houses but an army based on the organization of 19th century ones ( the Qunari would be a good sort of inspiration in that regard as would the Dwarves ).

Two things are crucial to field/equip/maintain an army: Secure a deal with Tevinter to sell most if not all the City Elves from Fereldan in exchange for coin. ( I've argued my reasons for this plenty. If people want elves and humans to coexist this can only be achieved through the Dalish being given lands at Ostagar. The City Elves would only stand in the way, and giving them rights would not solve ANYTHING )

Secure economic support from Orzammar.

If Celene decides to invade she is more then welcome to attempt to cross the Frostbacks or secure a beachhead, either way limits the strength of force she can bring against me ( her main advantage, since I have bloody golems ).

 As far as Nevarra goes, since they are number 1 on the list for must have allies, what is their situation in DA2? What are they upto, where is their focus,

Not much that I know off yet.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 10 mars 2011 - 01:46 .

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Ok, now I see what you are saying. Originally, I thought your plans were to go tearing ass into Orlais a couple of years after Origins ends. But when you lay it out like that, then yeah. And is generally very similar to the plan I myself would follow.

When I say amicable relations, I don't mean peace treaties or "friendship" like Cailan the moron did. I meant more as a sort of short term truce/reduction in overt or direct hostility to buy the time needed to rebuild and strengthen Ferelden, as well as make important alliances in the process. Some sort of low level trade and diplomatic accord with Orlais would be helpful in the meantime, as it would give the appearance of trust and cooperation on the part of Ferelden, even if their plans and intentions are quite the opposite, and the leader of Ferelden in the meantime is working towards the inevitable hostilities with Orlais. If nothing else, giving the appearance of being trusting and cooperative might cause Celene to underestimate Ferelden's leadership and it's long term plans, which could be an advantage in certain cases.

Agreed on the elves, the city elves are pretty much inconsequential in the bigegr picture, while the Dalish are potentially more important and useful.

And also agreed on the Magi. Even if your character has little interest in abolishing the Circle and liberating the mages, putting the crown in direct charge of the Magi and removing Chantry control, I think, is something that any national leader should have vested interest in pursuing. The mages themselves would certainly be amicable to such an arrangement, as even though they aren't necessarily "free", most would see being wards/servants of their crown a much better alternative to being continued slaves/prisoners of the Chantry, and the strategic.tactical signifigance of the Magi is immense. And unlike the Chantry, a government would not restrict the mages research and development of magic, and like the Wardens, I think the crown would be pretty lenient and encourage the mages to unleash their full fury on the Orlesian forces. Where as the Orlesian mages, which would still be under the control of the Chantry (even though the Chantry and Orlesian imperial court are probably closely linked and buddy buddy), and would be more hobbled by that fact.

If Celene were to try to invade Ferelden during the time frame that DA2 is happening, then I think she would find it would be her first major blunder. If Ferelden's leader has been smart and been working hard, not only in rebuilding the country, but dealing with the Bannoron, then Ferelden could concievably defeat such an attempt and make it a very costly mistake for Orlais. ferelden has one major geographical advantage: the Frostbacks. I say this because from what I've seen and heard of the orlesian forces, they seem to rely alot on heavy calvary mounted units like the Chevalier, and moving large regiments on horseback through the Frostbacks would be very difficult and inefficient. About the only place I've seen on the map where the Chavalier could invade successfully would be the Jader gap, which on the map looks like an easily defensible choke point.

Which would leave the maritime front and beach heads. But looking at the map, from the way it's drawn, much of the northern coast of Ferelden looks rather mountainous and rugged, so I think that an invasion there could also be dealt with, especially if you made Nevarra your buddy, and they managed to get most of the Free marches on board. They could take care of the orlesian navy, as well as send pirates to attack and harrass the orlesians.

Of course, you aren't all the way through DA2, and I will be interested to see further how it plays out. If the Chantry gets broken successfully by whatever happens in DA2, then that would be a signifigant blow to the Orlesians, as the Orlesian Chantry is one of Celene's most powerful tools of state and influence. I can't wait until you've progressed further into the game, to see where nevarra fits in. Finding out what their focus is, and where their interests lie, will be essential, I think.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Removing Chantry control on the mages constitutes a direct challenge against Orlais. It's not stupid, it will know what you are doing. It's an act I do not think Ferelden can afford to do now, even if it should be an ultimate goal.

I'd prefer steadily increasing the Crown's influence in the Chantry, especially allying with the Lucrosians, who seek economic power. And subtly hint at a military alliance (cultivate several Uldred like mage allies ready to convince the Circle to secede should it come to it. I'd trust the Lucrosians more than the Libertarians). Since I annulled the circle, supporting the Lucrosians from the start can render them into the most influential fraternity in the Circle.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

It depends. If the Chantry gets broken or knocked down a few pegs by the end of DA2, and the situation turns out to be highly favorable to the Nevarrans, then I think Ferelden easily could afford to make such a direct challenge. There's not much the Chantry or orlais could do at that point, as both would be weakened by the turn of events.

Of course, it would not be wise if both Chantry and Orlais were at full power and unfazed, at least not right before the planned joint invasion Orlais. Before then, I would work in secret with the senior mages behind the scene, gaining their support while giving the appearance of officially still supporting the Chantry. But really, conspiring with the senior mages to pull a coup eventually, so they themselves can prepare for the change. (naturally, i would pick mages that were more stable and reliable than Uldred, who even before the Broken circle, seemed ruled by personal and selfish passions, as opposed to a general and practical desire for freedom). Then, maybe a couple weeks or so before planning to march on orlais, would give the signal and pull of a joint coup in the circle, with specialized troops and assasins being in place to assist the mages kill all the templars and priests, and gain control of the tower quickly. This would be done in some secrecy, and would not be publically aknowledged. Publically, I would make up some story, declare the Circle to be officially now under the dominion of the crown, and then mobilize them for war. By the time news reaches the Divine in Orlais, and she finishes her epileptic seizue and starts making plans for an exalted march, Ferelden and Nevarran troops will already be over the border and on their way to enjoy springtime in Val Royeaux.

Which brings up an interesting point: Alistair's value in a scheme like this. Any govornment planning on taking control of the tower will also have to take on the responsibility of policing the mages. In Thedas, the only people capable of doing this effectively are the Templars, due to their powers. Yet the Chantry has the Templars by the balls in this, and hold their fanatic devotion through drug addiction as well as relious zealotry. So it is highly unlikely, even through torture, that you will get them to talk and tell you how they do it. And of course, kidnapping and torturing templars is a surefire way to get the Chantry declaring an exalted march on you. as quickly as freeing the Circle would. Yet here you have, right before you, a young and incredibly naieve and trusting ex templar, of whom the Chantry possesses no hold over through lyrium or devotion, beyond his own personal honor of not wanting to go back on his given word. And he possess those secrets and can show you how as well.

All you have to do is be nice to him long enough where he trusts you and mistakenly believes you are a good person. and he will gladly hand over the Chantry's most valuable secrets to you, free of charge for your own nefarious use. After which, you can return to your regularly schedualed program of abuse, humiliation, and planned executions of your young Therin tool.

[KnightofPhoenix]

All seems to be proceeding well for Gabriel Hawke.



He's rich and well known. He owns 50% in a mining business.
He has a magister around his finger (either by gratitude or blackmail, hopefully that will be relevent later). 
He's secretly helping mages and apostates (just now, he fabricated false evidence to eliminate one of the best templars). At the same time, the Templars, and Cullen specifically, see him as a friend. And he's the only one in Kirkwall who seems to have earned the respect of the Qunari.

Also, he is friends with Varric, who controls the Merchants guild. Friends to Aveline, who is now captain of the Guard.
And he is encouraging Sebastian Vael to reclaim the throne of Starkhaven, another city-state. If succesful, it will mean that Hawke has a very crucial ally.

Rise to power indeed.

[Xilizhra]

I know many things you don't know...

I do look forward to reading more reactions in this thread.

[Giggles_Manically]

As for my plan?

Seize the crown and obliterate every single last templar out of existence within sight of Kirkwall. 
I may do the same to most of the chantry leaders as well.

I am looking forward to the end but I still have most of act 2 to finish.

Modifié par Giggles_Manically, 12 mars 2011 - 12:29 .

[Xilizhra]

IRL, I just imitated your name upon reading your post.

[Giggles_Manically]

They are so disgusting in their actions and their fanaticism right now, plus they can not be controlled by anyone.

[Xilizhra]

Oh, of course. Horribly so. Disgusting fanaticism obviously can't be allowed to run rampant, hey?

[KnightofPhoenix]

Somehow, deciding to wipe out an entire order and priests sounds just as fanatical to me.

[Xilizhra]

For my own part... well, I won't kill anyone I don't have to; however, the mage's freedom will be had no matter what. Aside from that, Jana Hawke will do her best to be a benevolent leader.

[Glorfindel709]

The core of my being demands justice for all beings.

And.... the Maleficar that is my soul in fact demands that every Templar, Chantry initiate, Chanter, and Priest must be consumed by the fires of their hypocrisy that will burn within their very blood.

[DragonRacer13]

It took a while, but Chapter 8 of "The Hand We're Dealt" is finally up. Our very own CalJones and Addai were a little inspiration to me, so there's a little shout-out to them at the end. I'll be interested to see if they spot what they inspired in the chapter before that shout-out (and Addai, I know you're on hold until you finish The Time Sink -- I'm feeling your pain as well!).

Yeah, and DA2. Loving it so far, but no real news on Loghain (who is alive and well in my import) other than the "King Cailan was betrayed by his greatest general blah blah blah" that we all saw in the demo. It was cool to see cameos from my decisions so far - namely, the last of the Harrowmonts and a cured werewolf.

I've already spoiled myself terribly, which I should not have done, but I lack any self-control for such things. But I will say that I would be VERY interested to know if the people who choose to spare Anders (he does something significantly... interesting and quite polarizing at the end; there's actually an exact phrase for it on TV Tropes, but I dare not link to the term for fear of giving away too much by its mere definition) were, by and large, also people who spared Loghain... or if they were those folks who froth at the mouth that Loghain is evil and committed unforgiveable crimes and, therefore, must die (but totally spared Anders because he's their BFF and/or lover). I'd be VERY. INTERESTED. To know this. Because I think most of them would fall into the latter category and the sheer hypocrisy and audacity of that thought just... makes the Loghain Fan inside me weep a little.

And I do not say that in a bad way. I'm lovin' me some Anders right now, currently (sorry, Loggy - I'd be mackin' on you if you were in the damn game at all).

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

DragonRacer13 wrote...

(sorry, Loggy - I'd be mackin' on you if you were in the damn game at all).

 

Not if they did to his facemorph what they did to other DAO heartthrobs (Alistair and Teagan). So, I'm rather glad he doesn't show up.

I must say, the facemorph artwork in general is pretty revolting by my standards, and the animations seem cartoonish. But other than that,  I'm glad to see more positive opinions than negative ones, in regards to DA2 overall. It sounds more and more like I will be buying it eventually. The most important things to me (good plot, coherence, continuity, interesting character development, ect) seem to be present in DA2 judging by the reviews I've seen, and those are my main concerns.

Game aesthetics are something that can easily remedied, and the gods of the modding community are already at work on the problem.

[Xilizhra]

I spare both of them, DragonRacer. I'd also, of course, be quite interested in the opposite: who spares Loghain and kills Anders.

[alschemid]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

DragonRacer13 wrote...

(sorry, Loggy - I'd be mackin' on you if you were in the damn game at all).

 

Not if they did to his facemorph what they did to other DAO heartthrobs (Alistair and Teagan). So, I'm rather glad he doesn't show up.

Alistair, Teagan and Zevran look awful, but not Leliana.... curious. I'd be mackin' on him no matter what...just close the eyes and let him talk.

[DragonRacer13]

Xilizhra wrote...

I spare both of them, DragonRacer. I'd also, of course, be quite interested in the opposite: who spares Loghain and kills Anders.

True, that would be interesting to know. Personally, I've only ever killed Loghain once, and now always spare him. I've just started Act 3 and - even knowing full well what Anders is gonna do (the foreshadowing I can see since I spoiled myself early is quite interesting, really. Boom.), there's just no way I would be able to bring myself to kill him. My rogue Lady Hawke is just gonna have to run off into the countryside and go into hiding with her fugitive apostate boyfriend. LOL

It is 100% impossible to resist the big brown puppy dog eyes. For me, at least. *sigh* Gonna be hard to resist when I send my next Lady Hawke through, who is earmarked for Fenris.

[Xilizhra]

My Hawke belongs only to Merrill, herself. But I doubt I could ever kill Anders; Loghain, maybe, but I'd do it by choosing Alistair to duel him.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

I don't think I could kill Anders, either. He is only serving The Pounce's Will.

[Glorfindel709]

Seeing as my Warden agrees with Anders for the most part in regards to the Chantry, I sincerely doubt that I'll be doing anything to stand in his way beyond killing Meredith before he can get there.

[Giggles_Manically]

 Heehee.

Looks like there will be a lot less templars in the world right now.
And Qunari.
And well just generally less people now that I finished DA2.

Did not take the crown, or get the Qunari's respect.
Plus about a third of my squad was gone/dead by the time I finished.

At least the guys who were left decided to back off after the end. 

[Costin_Razvan]

Kill Anders? I would have to be insane as either the Warden or Hawke.

As the Warden why would I ever want to kill the boy who just DELIVERED the Orlesian Empire to me by crushing the Chantry? ( Oh I am not going to dream Celene will fall that easily, but a mage rebelion on that scale would have my warden drolling like hyena about to devour it's prey. )

Since I have already taken far more lenient measures against mages in Fereldan then anywhere else save Tevinter then I don't think the Fereldan Circle will rise up.

As Hawke why would I kill the boy who just helped me get rid of those bloody templars who were a DIRECT threat to my power in Kirkwall?

I personally almost gained the Arishok's respect I think, though my Hawke couldn't beat him in a duel ( even on Casual Sword and Shield SUCKS! )

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 12 mars 2011 - 11:36 .

[Addai]

So, Loghain was right about the Orlesians!!! Ha!

Husband says that Alistair mentions it if Loghain is alive.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Costin_Razvan wrote...
I personally almost gained the Arishok's respect I think, though my Hawke couldn't beat him in a duel ( even on Casual Sword and Shield SUCKS! )

Dancing around him as a mage was fun at first, then it got boring really quickly.

And I started shouting "cheater!" when he used potions....after I used 5...or 10 myself.