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[Xilizhra]

Possibly because of Ferelden's Circle being strong and basically supported by its monarchy?

I really want to see, now, how the Cult of Andraste will change things if the Orlesians poke their noses in.

[KnightofPhoenix]

That depends entirely on your choice in Origins. If you choose to annul, the Circle is supposed to be tighter. So no, I do not think that's the reason.

EDIT: unless they retconned. Cullen is in Kirkwall afterall. Even so, the source of the unrest and rebellion is Kirkwall.

She might be aiming for Orzammar and Lyrium, but that's too risky if disaster is brewing in the free marches, which she ought to know about.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 13 mars 2011 - 03:26 .

[Irish Guerrilla]

Wow this thread is still magically growing. I'm proud to be the OP! =) I don't want to impede on the very cool discussions you deep fans are having, just wanted to get some established or "real" opinions on DAII. I'm 5 hours in and like it. At this point in Origins, I "LOVED IT." I actually enjoyed the books more than II so far. What do you all think?

[KnightofPhoenix]

It will get better. That's what I personally thought. At the beginning, fights were annoyingly hard and it moved slowly. But by act 2, it climaxes and keeps climaxing by act 3. Multiple climaxes, so to speak.

So at the beginning, I liked it. By act 2, I loved it. But that's just me.
What I can say is that DA2 is better than ME2 in a lot of ways.

[Giggles_Manically]

So... I wont be getting the crown this run.

Playing as Loki Hawke is just too much fun.
The Norse god of mischief is on the loose, beware his snark Kirkwall.

That being said that more I play DA2 the more I like it.
Playing as a mage is just so much more powerful story wise then it was in Origins.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Giggles_Manically wrote...
Playing as a mage is just so much more powerful story wise then it was in Origins.

Yep, and even gaemplay wise, I thought.

I want to replay the game, but I am woirried that I would not like the other classes. I hated two handed in the demo and was meh about sword and shield. I am not a fan of the new rogue, but I liked archery (loved it even more when I saw Varric kicking ass with it. Assassin lance is uber!!).

I think I'll be playing a female rogue, who alternates between dual wield and archery.

[Giggles_Manically]

I loved playing sword and shield.

Damn you just dont die with a max sword and shield skill tree.
Plus scatter and assault were godly later on if your enemies clustered.

[Giggles_Manically]

So no mention of Loghain on the NO COMPROMISE import so far.

Also to note that DN is so ruthless its scary:
Wiped out the Elves, for the werewolves
Wiped out all the mages
Burnt Amaranthine to the ground

I did laugh at one comment during a quest:"While those nobles are still slightly angry that he burned down their city"

Also it seems if you burn down Amaranthine, that Vigil's Keep becomes a much more important center in the arldom now.

[Glorfindel709]

Question - is there any way to see a list of what imported on the Console?

[Giggles_Manically]

I thought it was the same as the PC?

That it had a pop up list the same as the PC for what you did.
Got my canon run wrong all over the place.

[Costin_Razvan]

Did you get a cameo of Anora as Queen Giggles? Just wondering.

[Costin_Razvan]

Did Anora show up for any of you? Just about to start to final battle and she hasn't, since Alistair does appear as king I expect her.

Can't seem to start to Nathaniel quest either.

[Giggles_Manically]

I am still getting money for the Deep Roads... I always have to buy the nice stuff though when I see it so slow going.

But no it looks like Anora is not in DA2.
Mika Simmons is not listed as being in it.

Which is a shame because I think Anora is cool, and some people have talked about Queen Anora.

[Costin_Razvan]

Sigh...well thankfully my secondary cannon has Alistair and Anora ruling together.

Bleh anyway.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Anora does not show up?? Pity.

Then again, she's probably too busy actually running the state.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Both my canons have Anora ruling solo, so yeah, I'm interested to see if she gets a cameo, or mention.

@KoP: yeah, I was expecting Celene to be more subtle and calculating instead of just marching right in to Ferelden. I mean, I know she wants it, and was expecting her to make another move to take over Ferelden, whether by army or manipulation. But I wasn't expecting her to move so soon, from what I hear, this is like 4-5 years after origins started that she's possibly gonna go for the gold.

However, now that I've seen the DA2 forums and have gotten a better idea of what's happening, at that point, it doesn't seem so risky. Trouble is brewing in the Free Marches, which is primarily, Nevarra's problem, at that point. Which means Nevarra's attention with be focused alot there, and thus, divided between the Free Marches and Orlais.

And Ferelden is still weakened from both Blight and Civil war, and has not even had enough time to form alliances.

So yeah, now that I have a better grasp of the timeline post Origins, and whats going on in the Free Marches, it actually makes sense for orlais to make such a bold move. Taking advantage of Nevarra's obsession with events in the Free Marches is a pretty good idea, and since it is so soon after the end of origins, Ferelden is ripe for conquest (especially if Loghain is dead or got sent to his calling).

[MKDAWUSS]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Anora does not show up?? Pity.

Then again, she's probably too busy actually running the state.

I never saw Anora and she was the sole ruler (Loghain became a Warden)


Although Orlais invading Ferelden... I'd be curious, that, considering how soon it was after the Blight, to see if Ferelden's domestic allies would assist fighting the Orlesians. They may not be compelled by treaty as it's the state of Ferelden rather than the Grey Warden Order that's requesting their aid (and I don't think Amaranthine could use those treaties anyway as there's no Blight), but seeing that relations are said to have improved between Ferelden and its domestic sovereign allies (Orzammar and the Dalish tribes) there could be enough influence to add them to the Fereldan forces. The argument would be easy - Orlais probably wouldn't spare them from being placed under their jurisdiction.

If they could assemble those forces, they could quite possibly repel the Orlesian forces - they are the ones who single-handedly defeated the 5th Blight.


The bigger concern for Ferelden is if the country is even united. From what was seen in Witch Hunt, there seem to be rivalries developing between Redcliffe and Denerim (and possibly Vigil's Keep and Amaranthine, though this is of lesser importance). The major wildcard in Redcliffe-Denerim is Arl Eamon. While I don't think he would make a power grab against Alistair, he quite possibly would against Anora. And if the country's divided, they're not going to stand much of a chance against the Orlesian army.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...
However, now that I've seen the DA2 forums and have gotten a better idea of what's happening, at that point, it doesn't seem so risky. Trouble is brewing in the Free Marches, which is primarily, Nevarra's problem, at that point. Which means Nevarra's attention with be focused alot there, and thus, divided between the Free Marches and Orlais.

It's not Nevarra's problem only. It's a problem that threatens the very foundations of the Chantry. That's one of Orlais' main weapons.

So that means Celene is just willing to discard the Chantry and go straight for Ferelden, which I don't think is that wise. Regardless of what Celene might think of the chantry, it's a powerful tool.

The Free Marches are not that far from Orlais, so I don't see why Nevarra would be affected, but not Orlais. Since the seat of the Chantry is in Orlais, the country is going to be affected. So why would she want to commit herself in Ferelden, while a mage revolution might start up in her own country? 

It doesn't make much sense. Usually, when a revolution happens, everyone gangs up on the revolutionaries to keep the status quo.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

MKDAWUSS wrote...

Although Orlais invading Ferelden... I'd be curious, that, considering how soon it was after the Blight, to see if Ferelden's domestic allies would assist fighting the Orlesians. They may not be compelled by treaty as it's the state of Ferelden rather than the Grey Warden Order that's requesting their aid (and I don't think Amaranthine could use those treaties anyway as there's no Blight), but seeing that relations are said to have improved between Ferelden and its domestic sovereign allies (Orzammar and the Dalish tribes) there could be enough influence to add them to the Fereldan forces. The argument would be easy - Orlais probably wouldn't spare them from being placed under their jurisdiction.

If they could assemble those forces, they could quite possibly repel the Orlesian forces - they are the ones who single-handedly defeated the 5th Blight.


The bigger concern for Ferelden is if the country is even united. From what was seen in Witch Hunt, there seem to be rivalries developing between Redcliffe and Denerim (and possibly Vigil's Keep and Amaranthine, though this is of lesser importance). The major wildcard in Redcliffe-Denerim is Arl Eamon. While I don't think he would make a power grab against Alistair, he quite possibly would against Anora. And if the country's divided, they're not going to stand much of a chance against the Orlesian army.

The Dwarves and Dalish I could see possibly allying with Ferelden to repel an invasion, as both would have vested interest in not seeing it conquored by a very powerful and aggressive empire. The Dalish have been granted a homeland by the Fereldens, but there is little likelyhood or guarantee that the Orlesians would honor their soveirgnty. The dwarves themselves, while dealing with their own darkspawn problems, would not want to see a powerful surface empire swallow their closest surface ally, one who they could deal with on equal footing, for the most part. (Bhelen, of course, is a requirement, but given that everyone here pretty much made Bhelen their canon, it's a moot point).

The only ally you would have problems with are the mages. The Chantry controls them, not the crown, and since the Chantry and Orlais are bed buddies, so long as the Chantry holds the circle, it's unlikely the monarch will get anything more than a token force of mages, unless the monarch forcibly removes the Chantry from the circle and takes control. At that point, since Orlais is already invading, I don't think the issue of an exalted march is really going to make matters worse.

But like you said, the biggest problem is the infighting, which, regardless of who gets on the throne, is happening. The Bannorn are back to their old pasttime of killing each other over trees, and redcliffe is starting to push it's weight and divide the country by countering the throne. The irony being that the greatest threat to Ferelden's well being and survival is not maleficar, Orlesians, or darkspawn, but from the petty childish morons that are running it.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

It's not Nevarra's problem only. It's a problem that threatens the very foundations of the Chantry. That's one of Orlais' main weapons.

So that means Celene is just willing to discard the Chantry and go straight for Ferelden, which I don't think is that wise. Regardless of what Celene might think of the chantry, it's a powerful tool.

The Free Marches are not that far from Orlais, so I don't see why Nevarra would be affected, but not Orlais. Since the seat of the Chantry is in Orlais, the country is going to be affected. So why would she want to commit herself in Ferelden, while a mage revolution might start up in her own country? 

It doesn't make much sense. Usually, when a revolution happens, everyone gangs up on the revolutionaries to keep the status quo.

Geographically, Nevarra shares borders with the Free Marches, and it is much closer than Orlais. What goes on there will effect them first, before it efefcts Orlais. There is trouble brewing, certainly, but given the timeline and the point in the storyline where orlais decides to invade Ferelden (which I think is 5 years in), how big and how troublesome is the problem at that point? Is it near critical mass, or is it still a relatively localized phenomenon? How bad or dangerous does the situation seem?

If it, at that point in time, looks like it is under control, or can be brought under control relatively easily, then I see no reason why she would not feel confident in taking out Ferelden. They might have repelled a Blight and temporarily ceased the civil war, but the country is weakened, and increasingly divided.

It wouldn't be terribly difficult, provided the Bannorn continue true to form. Even all the golems and allies can't save Ferelden from it's own stupidity.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...
Geographically, Nevarra shares borders with the Free Marches, and it is much closer than Orlais. What goes on there will effect them first, before it efefcts Orlais.

It won't take long to affect Orlais, they are linked to the Free Marches via the Waking sea, which is not that big and is full of commercial activity. And since the Chantry is in Orlais, they are going to be hit almost instantly. You don't have to share borders with a country to be affected by something as big as a mage revolution that essentially threatens the status quo in most countries in Thedas.

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...
There is trouble brewing, certainly, but given the timeline and the point in the storyline where orlais decides to invade Ferelden (which I think is 5 years in), how big and how troublesome is the problem at that point? Is it near critical mass, or is it still a relatively localized phenomenon? How bad or dangerous does the situation seem?

It's very dangerous. In a side quest with Sebastian, Leliana shows up and says that the Divine is seriously contemplating an Exalted March. That's at the end of act 2, so 6 years into the game. Kirkwall has no Viscount, so essentially no leader. The Templars are over extended and many within the order are getting skeptical. Apostate and maleficar activity is sharply on the rise. Like Varric said. The more the Templars squeezed, the more mages sought to be free, which led to even more repression. And the Divine asked for the Grand Cleric to escape, because she is in danger. That's a lot of trouble brewing.

So the situation is very critical, only someone blind can ignore that. It might not be extremily critical at that point, but the prudent course of action here would have been to wait and prepare. Not go to conquer a country that I am not sure what it can offer to be worth the risk at the moment. 

Unless, Celene is trying to establish national unity by creating an exterior enemy. The question is, how much do mages care about this? How much ressources is she willing to invest?

It would have been much smarter to establish a coalition to pre-empt on Kirkwall and in the process, divide Fereldens up under the guise of an alliance. Because right now, while creating an exterior enemy has some merit, I am not sure it would work if the mage revolution is going to spread everywhere. And I am not sure they would see themselves as Orlesians and not mages.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 13 mars 2011 - 08:46 .

[Costin_Razvan]

I finished it at last...63 hours ( you need not know how productive I was this last week, answer would be zero. )

I seriously will never play Sword and Shield ever again, it was just plainly ****. That said I did complete the game roughly 99% on Nightmare ( couldn't kill the last boss in Act 1, nor the High Dragon or the first Varethal and at the end I just ****ed it up and put on casual as I was just TIRED after an entire week of this though I did get her down to 50% before reloading and tunning down the difficulty. ).

Definetly a game that I will replay, and that will bring me great enjoyment as I do that.

Knight: I think you fail to understand how it works. The mages are not keen on revolution but it happens because the Knight Commander decides to anull the Circle after Anders blows up the Chantry and kills the Grand Cleric.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 13 mars 2011 - 08:56 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Yea the game is much longer that I thought it would be. I am at 55 hours and I am not that far in Act 3. And there are some side-quests I didn't do. Like annihilating all gangs from the streets. I did a few, then I got bored.

But yea, I'll probably avoid playing a warrior. Going for rogue on my next playthrough.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 13 mars 2011 - 08:55 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Costin_Razvan wrote...
Knight: I think you fail to understand how it works. The mages are not keen on revolution but it happens because the Knight Commander decides to anull the Circle after Anders blows up the Chantry and kills the Grand Cleric.

Enchanter Orsino and many mages were tired of it. Apostates were increasing. Resolutionists as Leliana called them, that wanted to fight the Chantry, were also on the rise and were trying to assassinate the Grand Cleric.

It was not revolution yet, but all it needed was a spark, which is what Anders did (that was a spoiler btw, I didn't get there, but I suspect that he would do somethign similar when he asked me to disract the cleric). It was on the verge of revolution.

Ignoring something like that is an act of  political idiocy. 

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Personally, I do not believe the mages would really be stirred by feelings of nationalism. Why would they? They have been deliberately cut off from their respective societies with little interaction. It is their individual nations that support them being locked up. National boundaries would ethnic identities would probably have little meaning to them. Nor would national politics in the larger scheme. Doesn't matter whose on what throne, nothing changes signifigantly for the mages.

If you were a mage, who was taken from his family at a young age, locked away from society like some sort of freak, with heavily armed drug addled religous fanatics constantly breathing down your neck, ready to decapitate you if you fart to loudly, and being denied the basic human need to form close bonds and create families, and suddenly, a revolution was on the horizon, who would you side with?

Your fellows who are in the same boat as yourself, or the people of a society who not only imprisoned you, but thinks your kind are irredemably evil, and should be exterminated?

Anyway, regarding celene's planned invasion, I was under the impression it was just that: a political and military invasion, straight up. But you said the Divine was talking about an exalted march on Ferelden. Which is it, a normal war declared by the Empress, or a religous crusade? I ask because if it is an Exalted march, what reason is given for it? Divines generally don't call for exalted marches out of boredom, it's usually because the target has considered some grave offense against Chantry doctrine, or is directly threatening the Chantry itself.