12857 réponses à ce sujet

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Origins was similar. Once you get to Landsmeet, what had been a really big, epic build up kinda went meh. It seems they get to the climax point, then drop the ball. I do hope they fix this.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

Origins was similar. Once you get to Landsmeet, what had been a really big, epic build up kinda went meh. It seems they get to the climax point, then drop the ball. I do hope they fix this.

But at least you get to hear the farewell speech of your companions that to this day moves me. You get to see the DR and Morrigan leaving. You get to fight in a battle, with allies and such. And you get the post-coronation scene that just heart wrenching. And then, you get a nice epilogue and see the consequences of your choices. And then, a soothing music at the credits. I mean, it felt like you really did finish the game.

The ending in DA:O might not have been that awesome, but when compared to DA2, it's way way way better. In DA2, there is nothing. And all the build up to a huge conflict was reduced to the banal "interference" of pure lyrium, sucking almost all of the maturity and humanity out of it.

Just, wow. Biggest dissapointment in years.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 14 mars 2011 - 09:14 .

[CalJones]

I've been avoiding the thread as I am still happily playing through my first run of F:NV and DA2 is in the post (I don't think I'll touch it until I've had my fill of Fallout in any case).
But I just popped in to say - awesome new chapter, Addai! You make me hungry for more.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...


But at least you get to hear the farewell speech of your companions that to this day moves me. You get to see the DR and Morrigan leaving. You get to fight in a battle, with allies and such. And you get the post-coronation scene that just heart wrenching. And then, you get a nice epilogue and see the consequences of your choices. And then, a soothing music at the credits. I mean, it felt like you really did finish the game.

The ending in DA:O might not have been that awesome, but when compared to DA2, it's way way way better. In DA2, there is nothing. And all the build up to a huge conflict was reduced to the banal "interference" of pure lyrium, sucking almost all of the maturity and humanity out of it.

Just, wow. Biggest dissapointment in years.

Uhhh....so basically, it was not the ages old tension and conflict of mages vs templars finally coming to a believable head after centuries, but.....what....the mages and templars were really all bed buddies and lovers in normal times, but had snorted too much pure lyrium and all went crazy, and demons made them do it?

A big WTF, OMFG No moment indeed.

[KnightofPhoenix]

SPOILERS


It turns out Meredith was crazy with Lyrium and that's why she was as repressive as she was. Just banal. And then you see demons and mad mages everywhere. It lacks humanity and reduced the whole thing to "omg everyone is crazzyyyy!" .

The humanity of the conflict was being built up very well from Act 1. Then this happened and it eclipsed it. Almost like saying that everything happened by accident, all because of our stupid deep roads expedition.

[MKDAWUSS]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

The ending in DA:O might not have been that awesome, but when compared to DA2, it's way way way better. In DA2, there is nothing. And all the build up to a huge conflict was reduced to the banal "interference" of pure lyrium, sucking almost all of the maturity and humanity out of it.

Yep. I thought Act III was more suited for my younger cousins than me. What made it worse was that the writing was more or less set up to accomodate plot requirements (including multiple cop-outs), causing the necessary events to feel forced in return.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Riiiight....yeah. Lame. I mean, mental problems from lyrium addiction are so widespread amongst templars, that really, it is nothing out of the ordinary. And yeah, making all the mages become blood mages really kills the whole thing, because it makes it seem like only crazy maleficar with evil intentions want freedom from the Chantry. It's almost like a widespread "the devil made me do it" cop out. Totally ignoring the very human and real issues that didn't need some grand evil or insanity to make it very real and intensive.

And, like, what....did lyrium turn all the mages into blood mages too, and make them crazy, or are they all simply now "fundementally evil"?

[KnightofPhoenix]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...
And, like, what....did lyrium turn all the mages into blood mages too, and make them crazy, or are they all simply now "fundementally evil"?

No the lyrium was only with Meredith. The mages were just acting insane on their own. Meredith has a point when she said she wanted to protect mages from their own stupidity.

Enchanter Orsino uses blood magic to become a harvester. That's right. A freakin harvester. How? I have no idea. Why? Because he's mad.

EDIT, I posted this, to express my dissapointment and explain it better.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 14 mars 2011 - 09:51 .

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Which again, just emphasizes the lameness. That mages will automatically go insane when given the prospect of freedom, that there were not legit motives and expectations for it all. And of course, the only way they will revolt is by all turning to blood magic and summoning armies of demons and become undead dwarven golems...

With everything that has happened, the climax should reflect the complexity of everything. But just lyrium making templars go crazy, and mages going crazy because...they are crazy anyway?

Yeah. Kinda fail.

[Costin_Razvan]

Knight: I think you are being too harsh on Act 3, yes the ending quest is bad but everything before that is good.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Knight: I think you are being too harsh on Act 3, yes the ending quest is bad but everything before that is good.

The "plot twists" at the end ruined everything before. It showed how neither Orsino or Meredith had any character development to speak of.
Yes, I was liking it before the end. I liked what was happening with Anders.

And then this happened that banalized the whole thing. The conflict could have been much more interesting and human but it was meh at best, garbage at worst, with the introduction of unknown forces that took away the humanity of the issue.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 15 mars 2011 - 12:17 .

[Glorfindel709]

I personally would like to call bull**** on the inability to remove and reuse a rune..... they're slotted into things, there's no reason I shouldnt be able to unslot. Grr


Also, is it my tv, or do you guys keep having everyones heads getting cut off during cutscenes by the black bars?

Modifié par Glorfindel709, 15 mars 2011 - 12:37 .

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Maybe the idol is really the fossilized poo of one of the old gods, and thus, drives people insane being around it. Because, like, it's pure evil manifest.

Just been reading the threads over in DA2, and yeah. WTF? An idol did it? It is rather cheap and cheesy, something I would expect more from say, Forgotten realms than Dragon Age. I mean, what was the point of the idol thingy? That it just makes people crazy? Why? Yeah, even a hint would be nice.

[WhiteKnyght]

Well to be fair they did leave a bit of clues beforehand that Meredith had been losing it. That just is what she was losing it too.

She was becoming more reclusive, paranoid, drastic, and I think they said she was talking to herself. Or something like that.

[KnightofPhoenix]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Well to be fair they did leave a bit of clues beforehand that Meredith had been losing it. That just is what she was losing it too.

She was becoming more reclusive, paranoid, drastic, and I think they said she was talking to herself. Or something like that.

That was just one sentence. I would have preferred showing us, or explaining it, without any unexplained idol doing it.

[MKDAWUSS]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Well to be fair they did leave a bit of clues beforehand that Meredith had been losing it. That just is what she was losing it too.

She was becoming more reclusive, paranoid, drastic, and I think they said she was talking to herself. Or something like that.

That was just one sentence. I would have preferred showing us, or explaining it, without any unexplained idol doing it.

It would have been even better if had been done without the plot crutch that was the idol. None of the characters in Origins carried plot crutches - certain things had to happen, sure, but it was developed to the point of being plausible in the end.


On another note, I'm getting this feeling that 6 months from now we'll be hearing about DA3, which ends up getting released about a year later...

[KnightofPhoenix]

MKDAWUSS wrote...

On another note, I'm getting this feeling that 6 months from now we'll be hearing about DA3, which ends up getting released about a year later...

Or a DLC "mystery of the idol revealed! all questions answered!", but of course it would answer nothing. 

[Giggles_Manically]

It is probably already on the disc.. like the black emporium, and most of Sebastian is...

[Addai]

CalJones wrote...

I've been avoiding the thread as I am still happily playing through my first run of F:NV and DA2 is in the post (I don't think I'll touch it until I've had my fill of Fallout in any case).
But I just popped in to say - awesome new chapter, Addai! You make me hungry for more.

Yeah, this thread is more spoilerific than the DA2 general forum.  Heh.  I'm posting on the DA2 forum so just not looking over here much.

But, thank you.  I'm getting there.

There is some vindication for Loghain in DA2!

[KnightofPhoenix]

Addai67 wrote...
There is some vindication for Loghain in DA2!

Which is not explained and doesn't make much sense given the regional context.
Hopefully it's just border tensions and nothing else.

[Giggles_Manically]

I doubt Celene even cares about taking over Fereldan now.

It would be to hard, and well.. Fereldan is now a blighted backwater that is hardly holding together,
Not exactly prime real estate.

[Eber]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

Maybe the idol is really the fossilized poo of one of the old gods, and thus, drives people insane being around it. Because, like, it's pure evil manifest.

SPOILERS

The city itself makes people crazy. It is well known the Veil is thin in Kirkwall and Hawke can also learn that the magisters were delibrately thinning it even further in the maze of caves, sewers and hidden passages below the city and that the power is still there.

So the demons have easy access to everyone in Kirkwall and that's why there's no point in reasoning with anyone. Kill them all. Burn the city. There's no sensible anatagonist to be found in this hellhole. No Loghain.

Quotes from codex (The Enigma of Kirkwall).

Modifié par Eber, 15 mars 2011 - 06:49 .

[DragonRacer13]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

SPOILERS



The problem with act 3 is that it's starting to feel like a cartoon. Dark is good. Way too much dark starts getting ridiculous. Everyone is going crazy. You have Orsino who somehow learned to become a harvester (how?). You have Meredith being controlled by her sword (soul calibur style? So banal). And you have demons everywhere.

It just lacks humanity and maturity. Act 3 ended up being the conflict between the insane and the possessed and not between Templars and mages.

And it's strange because Act 2 was so well written. Was it like two different writing teams? What went wrong?


END SPOILERS

Remember when you finally meet the Lily Killer? How that antechamber is set up with a fireplace, a picture of his dead wife, bookcases, etc? And there are scraps of paper lying around? And one of the pieces of paper is clickable, and you can read a note from someone praising him for his incredible "research"? And it's simply signed "O"?

Yeah.

I side with the mages (and spare Anders because Hawke is so damn in love she just... can't do it), but Orsino is a gigantic, flaming tool. Has a nice-looking staff, though. Sucks that it's totally underpowered by the time you gain it (and that you'd have it for all of... 5 minutes game-time anyway).

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Eber wrote...

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

Maybe the idol is really the fossilized poo of one of the old gods, and thus, drives people insane being around it. Because, like, it's pure evil manifest.

SPOILERS

The city itself makes people crazy. It is well known the Veil is thin in Kirkwall and Hawke can also learn that the magisters were delibrately thinning it even further in the maze of caves, sewers and hidden passages below the city and that the power is still there.

So the demons have easy access to everyone in Kirkwall and that's why there's no point in reasoning with anyone. Kill them all. Burn the city. There's no sensible anatagonist to be found in this hellhole. No Loghain.

Quotes from codex (The Enigma of Kirkwall).

But that's the problem. Mystery dragon poo idols, thinning veils...it's still lame plot crutches. It implies that had the veil been normal, and the idol not brought up from the deep, everyone would just be hunky dory, spiffy doo. No crazy mage rebellions, no oppresive templars, everyone would just be feelin super with their lot.

Which takes away from the human element. The plot had been set up great, because the issues that were coming to head were real and very human, and did not need some mystery magical dilema responsible. The mages had very legit, long standing, and heafty reasons why they wanted to rebel: they were being abused and oppressed. The templar commander did not need some mystery idol to become an abusive b*tch, we have Chantry dogma, coupled by religous fanataticism, both very human, non-mysterious failings. And some of the mages turning to blood magic/demonology could have been a self fulfilling prophecy, not because demons told them to.

What would have been a more reasonable plot device, and much more interesting and tragic, is if because the templar/mage situation had gotten so out of hand, they ended up thinning the veil and opening the flood gates for even worse things. And the idol thingy wouldn't have been so annoying if there was more and a better explaination of what it was. Or if it was used in a more subtle fashion.

[MKDAWUSS]

What would have made Act III soooo much better is if certain blood mages were trying to prove the world that blood magic isn't as evil as everyone made it out to be (that it in fact can have some uses beneficial to society), and Meredith cracked down on them because she thought she was right (much in the vein that Loghain did what he did because he thought he was right). It would have stuck to the intended theme that not everything is cut black and white and would have had people rethink their positions on certain things.