12857 réponses à ce sujet

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

@Costin: Lol, my dad sent me that joke.

@Giggles: Wow. So why the hell are there so many elections? Is it like the mess in Italy? Berlusconi?

Am going to be flying into Vancouver in about a month, will the election still be going on there?

[Giggles_Manically]

The election is happening May 2nd.

The issue is that we have one strong right wing party( for Canada) that sits with a minority government in office.
It has the most seats, but not enough for a majority in parliament.

So the other parties force votes and issues all the time.
Right now people are a bit annoyed.

[Costin_Razvan]

@Costin: Lol, my dad sent me that joke.

Whatever belief I had in Obama as a president it went down the drain when he received that noble peace prize.

My reaction was: "What the **** has this guy done to deserve it?"

[KnightofPhoenix]

You actually had any belief in Obama? I couldn't stop rolling my eyes whenever my friends jumped in joy when they heard his name.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Oh, a couple days before I fly in. Looks like I'll miss it.

No matter how bad it gets, though, at least Canada is not pathetic like Spain. What passes for politics here is anyone's guess, and it seems people do not understand basic economics. Gives me a headache. I'm looking forward to going back home. I've been out of the loop, and want to see what the situation on the ground is in the US. Been out of the loop, and talking to family and friends gets me nowhere.

But so far, with election year around the corner, I don't see the Republicans providing any viable alternative to Obama. Palin is popular mainly with the fanatics and ultra conservatives, and I believe she is pretty much what killed McCain's election prospects. If she is all the Republicans have, I think Obama pretty much will be looking at another term.

[Giggles_Manically]

You know I should not complain about Canadian politics that much,

No matter how useless or moronic are politicians are... things are usually very calm.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

You actually had any belief in Obama? I couldn't stop rolling my eyes whenever my friends jumped in joy when they heard his name.

Well, as cynical as I am, I did have some hope when he got elected. Not that he would bring about the fundemental changes we really needed, but would at least try fixing the damage he moronic predcessor had inflicted.

But mainly, the fact that he was elected was important to America on a very different front. When I left the US in 2005, a mere 4 years after 9/11, the idea of a black president, let alone one whose's name was Barrack HUSSEIN OBAMA, was simply unthinkable.

What this shows me, at least, that American thinking is starting to change in a more positive direction, and people were willing to give him a chance. Or at least, had more confidence in him than the Republicans, who epically failed over the past decade.

It gives me some degree of hope in the future, that their mentality and attitudes towards alot of things will also change and evolve.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

You know I should not complain about Canadian politics that much,

No matter how useless or moronic are politicians are... things are usually very calm.

Yes. As much as I like to make fun of the Canadians (just because they are there and are as about as inoffensive as a country can get), they do not offend the sensibilities like the Spanish do.

I mean, this country has been literally teetring on bankruptcy for months, barely holding on only because of EU bail out money and attempts at austerity measures, yet the unions, especially those associated with air travel, have planned a series of general strikes, basically shutting down airports across the country. The only real industry this country has at this point is tourism. Not hard to do the math.

I shake my head when I think this country once had an empire that dominated the world and basically owned 3/4 of the Americas.

[Giggles_Manically]

Yeah I mean my government actually can say:
Well here is our plan to start making a profit again!

Not many places can say that.

[Morwen Eledhwen]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

But mainly, the fact that he was elected was important to America on a very different front. When I left the US in 2005, a mere 4 years after 9/11, the idea of a black president, let alone one whose's name was Barrack HUSSEIN OBAMA, was simply unthinkable.

What this shows me, at least, that American thinking is starting to change in a more positive direction, and people were willing to give him a chance. Or at least, had more confidence in him than the Republicans, who epically failed over the past decade.

It gives me some degree of hope in the future, that their mentality and attitudes towards alot of things will also change and evolve.

Kind of sad --though not unthinkable-- that his greatest contribution to the welfare of his country might be just to show up and prove to the world that we're not a bunch of close-minded knee-jerk bigoted xenophobes. Or at least, the majority of us aren't.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Morwen Eledhwen wrote...

Kind of sad --though not unthinkable-- that his greatest contribution to the welfare of his country might be just to show up and prove to the world that we're not a bunch of close-minded knee-jerk bigoted xenophobes. Or at least, the majority of us aren't.

Agreed. That alone is a pretty big step forward. Though his foreign policy has been unremarkable, and I can't speak for his domestic policy since I haven't been home to see it. But the fact that we did not elect yet another old rich white guy, especially during a time of national crisis, is great.

The sooner we ditch the outdated ideas of race (including the patronizing idocy of political correctness, which I find insulting, divisive, and pointless), then the better.

@Giggles: That's more than the US can say, sadly. At least someone is thinking ahead.

Modifié par Skadi_the_Evil_Elf, 28 mars 2011 - 09:28 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Morwen Eledhwen wrote...
Kind of sad --though not unthinkable-- that his greatest contribution to the welfare of his country might be just to show up and prove to the world that we're not a bunch of close-minded knee-jerk bigoted xenophobes. Or at least, the majority of us aren't.

Well it showed me that they are guillable, can't make up their minds, and are easily led around like sheep with nice words and ridiculous media campaigns (Obama girl? seriously?). And aren't stupid enough to make the same mistake twice in a row.

No offense.
Most people are like that anyways.

[Morwen Eledhwen]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Well it showed me that they are guillable, can't make up their minds, and are easily led around like sheep with nice words and ridiculous media campaigns

Well, you didn't need this election to tell you that :lol:

No offense.
Most people are like that anyways.

None taken --see above.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Well it showed me that they are guillable, can't make up their minds, and are easily led around like sheep with nice words and ridiculous media campaigns (Obama girl? seriously?). And aren't stupid enough to make the same mistake twice in a row.

No offense.
Most people are like that anyways.

Different perspectives. But it would not make them the only guillable ones. Here in Europe, the media and everyone were practically juicing themselves talking about him. Here in Spain, no one could stop yammering and tripping over themselves to get to Malaga to see him.

But I would disagree with your assesment from a different perspective. Pretty words always sway the masses, so it's irrelevant. Americans are no different to anyone else in that regard. Say the right things, make the right promises, people will follow. They do not think, they feel. But that we established long ago. That is "democracy". The people pick the leader in principle (though other powers decide which leaders they get to pick), and as we know, people seldom, if ever, choose leaders for the right reasons. Or for even rational ones.

The point however, is not debating the lack of political genius in American politics, but more a change in the social and domestic attitudes. In this case, a highly signifigant one, and one I feel is positive one in the long term. Not in choosing Obama per se, but in the fact they even considered him at all. For me, that is a signifigant door opening to future possibilities.

One thing I am happy about with Obama, personally, is that he wishes to continue to push the space program ahead. Since the end of the Cold War, none of our preseidents were giving it much thought.

[Giggles_Manically]

I dont know if its said but the most that a politician right now in Canada can get from people is a:
Go away already and leave us alone.

Federally at least.
Provincially people pay more attention.

[KnightofPhoenix]

I just said, most people are like that anyways. Not only Americans.

It might be optimistic for the USA from a domestic perspective. But as a non-American, I find very little reason to be optimistic. Just like people picked Obama now, they can, with one little push, pick a far right candidate if the conditions are right. Social and domestic attitudes change most of the time, with no sense of direction and long term thinking. It generally requires a visionary to change them on a long term basis.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 28 mars 2011 - 10:00 .

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I just said, most people are like that anyways. Not only Americans.

It might be optimistic for the USA from a domestic perspective. But as a non-American, I find very little reason to be optimistic. Just like people picked Obama now, they can, with one little push, pick a far right candidate if the conditions are right. Social and domestic attitudes change most of the time. It generally requires a visionary to change them on a long term basis.

I disagree that it takes a visionary to change them on a long term basis. At least, not a political visionary. it is something that takes time and exposure to sort out, and in a generation, will probably become a non-issue. The race issue is one of those things that politics meddling will only make things worse. It is something that must come from the bottom up, not top down.

And while it certainlly does not seem to affect you now, I think one major reason America is dysfunctional abroad is because it is dysfunctional at home. Solving problems at home would change perspectives and policies abroad, as neither are mutually exclusive. Apathy is the biggest killer, and the biggest impediment to change. But apathy can be pretty transitory, especially when issues and problems arise that one can no longer ignore.

Anyway, for me, it's a good sign that some attitudes back home are changing for the better. Some improvement is better than none, and it has to start somewhere. Things always change, and when the time comes and I can move back home, hopefully, there will be changes I can take advantage of.

[KnightofPhoenix]

I didn't mean a political visionary necessarily. I don't think societies change that much on their own. And if they do, they are just as easily capable of changing back.

I don't see how Americans not being racist is going to affect their foreign policy. Not when most don't seem to understand how anything works outside of their borders. Nor do I think racism has much to do with current decision makers, but it's rather short term corportate interest. So meh. I have no optimism, just based on an election. If something else happens, sure.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 28 mars 2011 - 10:38 .

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I didn't mean a political visionary necessarily. I don't think societies change that much on their own. And if they do, they are just as easily capable of changing back.

I don't see how Americans not being racist is going to affect their foreign policy. Not when most don't seem to understand how anything works outside of their borders. Nor do I think racism has much to do with current decision makers, but it's rather short term corportate interest. So meh. I have no optimism, just based on an election. If something else happens, sure.

That issue alone, no. But it is a major block into sorting out alot of other issues. So removing the log jam there would most likely make it easier to sort out alot of other problems. Which would move things forward.

Certain problems, of course, within our govornment, have to be solved through entirely different means completely divorced from what society thinks or does. But some can really only be solcved through major changes in how our society functions and thinks. A social visionary? Something along those lines, yes. But societies do change and evolve on their own  as cicumstances require.

[KnightofPhoenix]

I'll reserve my optimism until things clearly do move forward.

But I am a pessimist (or realist) like that so yea

[Costin_Razvan]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

You actually had any belief in Obama? I couldn't stop rolling my eyes whenever my friends jumped in joy when they heard his name.

My initial belief was similar to that of the leader of Iran in that I would see and then I would decide. He started with some good ideas but didn't implement any of them in practice.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I'll reserve my optimism until things clearly do move forward.

But I am a pessimist (or realist) like that so yea

I found that optimism, however unrealitic, is what keeps me from complete apathy.

If I didn;t believe in a hope of change, I'd stop caring at all.

[KnightofPhoenix]

My personal empathy (which I think is very high. I teared up in a lecture about the Israeli wall in Palestine and its repercussions on people just a few minutes ago) prevents me from not caring about the Arab / Muslim World, or the world in general, even though there is not that much reason to hope.

Empathy is balanced by realism in my case I think.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 29 mars 2011 - 01:29 .

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Empathy is something I lack in general, beyond people who have shared my own experiences, mostly because much of the suffering I have come into contact with is mostly the product of blatant and unrepetant idocy or excessive self indulgence, as opposed to political, ethnic, or religous conflict and war. But I see a world where people wallow in the sewage of their own making, and have no desire to stand in the way between an idiot and his willing desire to self destruct or nullify the products of his or other people's labor.

It is the optimism, however faint, that people will intellectually, morally, ethicaly, socially, politically, and technologically evolve beyond the toilet world we currently wallow in is what keeps me from the mentality of "I'm going to have as much fun as possible now, the future be damned".

I am a misanthropist, yes. But a very optimistic one. I'll suffer now in the hopes that I might do something that might someday, have a positive impact somehow on the future.

[KnightofPhoenix]

We're polar opposites lol