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[Bitenomnom]

Morwen Eledhwen wrote...

Very promising --many aspects of it are definitely classic Loghain and I love the facial expression. I know it's facing the other way, but perhaps you can refer to this pic for some slight bridge of nose/depth of chin adjustments. . .
*snip*
He is a tough one. Many have tried but I have yet to see an absolutely perfectly rendered Loghain (though there are several commendable efforts out there, of course ).

Thanks! Yes, that'll be very useful. The "facing the other way" thing is no issue at all. I didn't have access to a computer to refer to anything while I was drawing this one, so it was based on the few vague features I've been able to work into my memory so far (obviously not entirely successfully), mostly based on mistakes I've made in previous sketches ("nose is NOT like ____").

But yeah, thanks again for your help.  :happy: I'll have to take another stab at it soon.

Also keep in mind that his left eye is the slightly crazy one:

*snip*

I don't know if that's supposed to be from an old injury, or what, but it's pretty consistent: that eye always bugs out/looks up higher/opens wider than the other one.

It's his little imperfections that make him both so interesting to look at and so tough to draw.

Ah, yeah, I totally forgot about that! Thanks!! (You know, it's funny, in a different drawing I kept accidentally making his eyes asymmetrical [straight-on view is my worst enemy; I suck at symmetry] and when I finally made them even it looked less like him...now I realize why!)

EDIT: Just tried touching up his nose and chin a bit and he's looking...well, significantly better, at the least, so I must thank you again. I'm a little scared to mess with his eye at all, but...I'll pretend this is before that injury/whatever happened, or maybe we just can't tell 'cause the other eye isn't visible to compare it with. >_>

Modifié par Bitenomnom, 07 avril 2011 - 07:24 .

[Addai]

Bitenomnom wrote...

Tried to sketch a youngish Loghain...I was hoping someone could help me out by telling me if there's anything that I definitely need to fix, and I'm sure there is. (Either for if I actually finish this drawing, or to keep in mind for future stuff.) I don't know why, but I've had a hell of a hard time trying to draw him.





I didn't originally have the braids, but, eh.

Ooh, I like!

I don't think there is a "real" Loghain, because as we all know the game's engine is more limited than an artist's rendering can be.  It's more like capturing the essence, to use a cliche'd phrase, and your sketch does this very well.

[Morwen Eledhwen]

Addai67 wrote...

I don't think there is a "real" Loghain, because as we all know the game's engine is more limited than an artist's rendering can be.  It's more like capturing the essence, to use a cliche'd phrase, and your sketch does this very well.

This is true. Even in-game, certain of Loghain's features are exaggerated or diminished from scene to scene. When I said that I have yet to see a perfectly rendered Loghain, I was speaking from my own opinion. We all have our own ideas of him in our heads (especially if we've been adding nuances and layers to him in fanfics. . .); when I look at someone's art of him, I'm comparing it to my image of him. So far I have yet to get a perfect match. But if this is what Bitenomnom comes up with just from memory, I have high hopes.

[KnightofPhoenix]

I think the Loghain in Origins is the definitive Loghain. Racoon eyes included. Or maybe that's just me.

[Morwen Eledhwen]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I think the Loghain in Origins is the definitive Loghain. Racoon eyes included. Or maybe that's just me.

I'm not suggesting that Loghain should be changed from Origins (I'm as anti-mod as you are in that respect), but even within Origins I've seen different-looking Loghains. Sometimes the raccoon eyes are more pronounced; sometimes his teeth stick out more; sometimes he 's really pale with a very bruised complexion and sometimes he looks more tanned (lighting has something to do with this too, but the effects of lighting seem to alter Loghain more than the others). His nose can also look different depending on the situation. So an artist's rendering would either have to pick one aspect of each feature, or try to combine them all. Tricky.

Modifié par Morwen Eledhwen, 07 avril 2011 - 05:41 .

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

In His cameo in Awakenings, his racoon eyes appeared to be gone, and his overall complexion seemed to have been improved,. probably due to him being relieved of the stress and aggro of being in command.

But I agree with the others, Loghain's looks tend to shift a bit, and are difficult to define. He also does have somewhat unusual pecularities to his face that make it interesting (and smexy) but difficult to completely implement in making fan art.

[Giggles_Manically]

When I made Loghain's face in DA2 I tried just making a younger version of his origin face.

That run is stalled though right now because I can only handle so much SERIOUS LOGHAIN HAWKE.

[Morwen Eledhwen]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

When I made Loghain's face in DA2 I tried just making a younger version of his origin face.

That run is stalled though right now because I can only handle so much SERIOUS LOGHAIN HAWKE.

Are there no snarky sarcastic Loghain options?

[Giggles_Manically]

A few.

I am still playing this like the more serious Loghain options.
But even Loghain's snark has an edge to it.

He loves his sister and his dog though.
I want to name my next dog: Adalla.

God I got a tear in my eye when he talked about his dog.

[Addai]

Morwen Eledhwen wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I think the Loghain in Origins is the definitive Loghain. Racoon eyes included. Or maybe that's just me.

I'm not suggesting that Loghain should be changed from Origins (I'm as anti-mod as you are in that respect), but even within Origins I've seen different-looking Loghains. Sometimes the raccoon eyes are more pronounced; sometimes his teeth stick out more; sometimes he 's really pale with a very bruised complexion and sometimes he looks more tanned (lighting has something to do with this too, but the effects of lighting seem to alter Loghain more than the others). His nose can also look different depending on the situation. So an artist's rendering would either have to pick one aspect of each feature, or try to combine them all. Tricky.

The game engine just cannot render likenesses very well.  It takes shortcuts, and uses conventions such as every male having the same body and so on.  That's what I mean that the game Loghain is not the "real" Loghain.  It's a cartoony rendering meant to suggest what he actually looks like, but I don't think artists need to copy the game appearance so much as try to stick close to the distinctive features.

I never assume that my PCs look exactly as they look in game, for instance.  Sometimes I see art that gets closer to how I actually see them in my mind's eye.

[Bitenomnom]

Addai67 wrote...
Ooh, I like!

I don't think there is a "real" Loghain, because as we all know the game's engine is more limited than an artist's rendering can be.  It's more like capturing the essence, to use a cliche'd phrase, and your sketch does this very well.

Aww, thank you!
My approach is usually to try to pick out the most important handful of features and work from there, i.e. "What makes Loghain look like Loghain?" Obviously my answer won't be "five concentric wrinkles circling approximately 4/5ths of the way around the bottom of his left eye," but rather...like you said, er, capturing the essence. Especially since my style of drawing is not all that much like the game's art style.

Just started a new sketch and totally accidentally did something about his eyes/eyebrows/nose much better than I thought I would have. (Knowing my luck, though, by the time I'm done I'll have changed the angle seven times and mutilated everything good about the drawing...) If I finish it anytime soon, would it be too terribly obnoxious for me to post another sketch so soon after the other? And since I'm awfully inexperienced at drawing armor and will need all the help I can get on that front, might I ask ahead of time, since I'm sure I'll need to know eventually, whether his River Dane armor has any features that distinguish it from other, similar-looking armor? (I want to be sure to capitalize on such features if there are any; or if I mess around a little with the armor design, since I'm assuming what's in the game is pretty generic, what aspects of it I ought to be sure not to change.)

[Costin_Razvan]

I am reminded the first time I almost allowed Loghain to kill himself on the Archdemon. I say almost since I was recording for a video I was making where my warden was going to do the US.

The video has epic music, a glorious sacrifice, many moments where my companions say farewell and the funeral, but all of it is eclipse by those few seconds where Loghain tries to convince my warden to let him do the deed.

"I would have expected you to kill me for what I did to you but you didn't. You have proven.....a friend."

"I thought all along that only I could save Fereldan, but it was you. Please, I have done so much wrong, allow me to do one last thing right."

Me: "Pause."

2 seconds later: ( Brain kicks in) "You are a recording you idiot! Now get a move on and finish it!"

Seriously what Loghain did there with a few words....told me terrabytes about his respect towards my Warden ( to quote one of my favorite FF writers ).

One of the most gratyfing moments in my video gaming history.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 08 avril 2011 - 01:35 .

[Morwen Eledhwen]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Seriously what Loghain did there with a few words....told me terrabytes about his respect towards my Warden ( to quote one of my favorite FF writers ).

One of the most gratyfing moments in my video gaming history.

I really hope that this current playthrough I'm on (M!Cousland) turns out to be my Redeemer ending. I was kind of planning on getting it with my Dalish but then she killed Wynne in the Broken Circle quest and I needed to do the DR in order to bring at least one Mage to the final battle (which was a laugh, seeing as she got squished by the Archdemon about 1/4 of the way through anyway <_<). Also my Dalish turned out to be quite Loghain-sympathetic and didn't want him to die, so the RP made sense there after all. So my Cousland is my next hope. If I can get him to spare Loghain I'm pretty sure he'll wind up letting him sacrifice himself; I'm not entirely sure he'll spare Loghain, though. I know I could force the issue and spare him even if it's not what my PC would really do, but I wouldn't want such a moment to be forced or false. Sigh. . .we're in Orzammar now, so I have almost 2 treaty quests to bring Ser Cousland around to a Loghain-sparing way of thinking. Let's hope.

Modifié par Morwen Eledhwen, 08 avril 2011 - 02:10 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Yea Loghain can definitely leave a big impact, no matter what you choose (even in his execution, if people went beyond disturbing sadism). The voice acting is just excellent.

DA2 showed me that characters like Loghain are a rarity. Which can be a good or bad thing, depending on how you look at it.

[Giggles_Manically]

I was iffy on Loghain until I saw the Loghain Redeemer ending for the first time.

"If I can die a hero in the service of Fereldan I do so gladly"
"Please...I have done so much wrong. Allow me to do ONE last thing right"

Total made me a Loghain fanboy.

@Costin: I like THY END when I watched it.
Introduced me to my second favourite Two Steps from hell song.

[Addai]

Bitenomnom wrote...

Addai67 wrote...
Ooh, I like!

I don't think there is a "real" Loghain, because as we all know the game's engine is more limited than an artist's rendering can be.  It's more like capturing the essence, to use a cliche'd phrase, and your sketch does this very well.

Aww, thank you!
My approach is usually to try to pick out the most important handful of features and work from there, i.e. "What makes Loghain look like Loghain?" Obviously my answer won't be "five concentric wrinkles circling approximately 4/5ths of the way around the bottom of his left eye," but rather...like you said, er, capturing the essence. Especially since my style of drawing is not all that much like the game's art style.

Just started a new sketch and totally accidentally did something about his eyes/eyebrows/nose much better than I thought I would have. (Knowing my luck, though, by the time I'm done I'll have changed the angle seven times and mutilated everything good about the drawing...) If I finish it anytime soon, would it be too terribly obnoxious for me to post another sketch so soon after the other? And since I'm awfully inexperienced at drawing armor and will need all the help I can get on that front, might I ask ahead of time, since I'm sure I'll need to know eventually, whether his River Dane armor has any features that distinguish it from other, similar-looking armor? (I want to be sure to capitalize on such features if there are any; or if I mess around a little with the armor design, since I'm assuming what's in the game is pretty generic, what aspects of it I ought to be sure not to change.)

Post it, by all means.

Do you need screenshots of River Dane armor?  It's basically a plain version of the chevalier armor.








Here it's a purplish color because I've upgraded it to level 7.



If you notice there is the Andrastian half-sun on the gauntlets, and some etching on the pauldrons.  The knees have those spiky things (<--technical term).

Gah, that Awakening cameo is hot.  *ahem*

[Bitenomnom]

 @Addai: Ooh, thank you!! I suspect the armor will take me forever to draw, haha.
(And I think I will finally get around to playing Awakening with this current character of mine...the past two games I finished I was so impatient to get going with my next character that I haven't played it yet. Naturally, the screenshots I've seen of Loghain in Awakening are completely unrelated to any additional motivation I might have magically acquired in the meantime. *cough*)

As for the sketch (seriously, I scribble a lot), here's what I've managed so far (links to bigger version):



I think his mouth needs redrawing but I'm also afraid to erase it for fear that I'll have to retry it 50 more times (no joke) before coming up with something that looks even halfway decent. (And something about something else seems off -- his jaw, maybe?)
Also, hair is obviously not my forte...

Oh yeah, and I think I'm going to tack on another piece of paper (not that you can tell that that one runs off the page, since I cropped it anyway) and make it full-body so I can add in some contextualizing scenery and all that, if I can fix this thing up nice enough that it seems worth making into a nice pretty picture. If I could manage to make it even look a little like what's in my head, it'll be awesome...

I also quickly colored a slightly fixed up version of the previous doodle.

Modifié par Bitenomnom, 08 avril 2011 - 06:11 .

[Morwen Eledhwen]

Bitenomnom wrote...

I also quickly colored a slightly fixed up version of the previous doodle.

<3

Very nice indeed. You've even got that left eye doing its Loghain's-left-eye thing. And you said you don't work fast. . .

[Addai]

Ooh, nice!!! Do you have a dA account?

[Bitenomnom]

@Morwen: Aw, thanks! Though give at least half the credit to luck, for putting my pencil in the right place. It was such a small change that it had to happen by accident rather than my own finesse [or lack thereof]. The whole "cross my fingers and hope the pencil does it right" thing is a common approach of mine...like every time I ever try to draw a mouth. >_> (Assuming that comment was referring to the colored drawing -- though the change in his eye was really, really small so I totally understand if it's not actually noticeable.)

Got any advice/tips for that sketch that's above it? I know there's something I ought to fix but it's one of those things where half of what I see is how it is and half of what I see is what I remember of how it was before I changed this-or-that, so I don't actually know what I need to change.

@Addai: Thank you! Yes, I do have one, here. Don't have much Dragon Age stuff yet, though. (But I'm sure there's plenty more to come. Especially once this semester ends...ugh.)

Modifié par Bitenomnom, 08 avril 2011 - 06:54 .

[Morwen Eledhwen]

Bitenomnom wrote...

Got any advice/tips for that sketch that's above it? I know there's something I ought to fix but it's one of those things where half of what I see is how it is and half of what I see is what I remember of how it was before I changed this-or-that, so I don't actually know what I need to change.

Erm. . .perhaps the shape of the head? My sense of spacial relations is terrible, so it may just be the angle that's causing it to look off, but Loghain's head is a rectangly-ovally shape, whereas the head of the Loghain in your sketch appears to be more of a wedge, or an acorn-shape. But again, it could just be the viewing angle.

And P.S. I don't know what you're talking about when you say you can't do hair.

Modifié par Morwen Eledhwen, 08 avril 2011 - 07:11 .

[Bitenomnom]

Morwen Eledhwen wrote...

Erm. . .perhaps the shape of the head? My sense of spacial relations is terrible, so it may just be the angle that's causing it to look off, but Loghain's head is a rectangly-ovally shape, whereas the head of the Loghain in your sketch appears to be more of a wedge, or an acorn-shape. But again, it could just be the viewing angle.

And P.S. I don't know what you're talking about when you say you can't do hair.

I see what you mean re: head shape. (I figure if one must consult whether one is perceiving things correctly, something is probably off. Though on the other hand, sometimes all that's needed to fix that kind of problem is a bit of shading, etc., depending on what's wrong...) I'll have to work with it a little bit (in fact, I just did, and it's at least a tad bit better), but I'm not sure I'll mess around too much until/unless I figure out exactly what I need to change.

Haha, well, I guess I'm getting better at hair. I always seem to take it one step too far and overdo it and ruin everything so I guess I was just paranoid that I'd managed to do so again. >_>  (I also just now changed the mouth in a way that didn't ruin it! How exciting. Now it's much more apt for the mood I had in mind.)

Modifié par Bitenomnom, 08 avril 2011 - 08:33 .

[Addai]

Bitenomnom wrote...

Got any advice/tips for that sketch that's above it? I know there's something I ought to fix but it's one of those things where half of what I see is how it is and half of what I see is what I remember of how it was before I changed this-or-that, so I don't actually know what I need to change.

@Addai: Thank you! Yes, I do have one, here. Don't have much Dragon Age stuff yet, though. (But I'm sure there's plenty more to come. Especially once this semester ends...ugh.)

I faved your Loghain drawing. 

I don't know what you're talking about when you say you can't do hair, either.  His looks great!  Can't really give art advice, though.  I'm a doofus with art.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Bitenomnom wrote...
@Addai: Thank you! Yes, I do have one, here. Don't have much Dragon Age stuff yet, though. (But I'm sure there's plenty more to come. Especially once this semester ends...ugh.)

That actually reminds me of Caesar in HBO's Rome.

Very well done!

[Bitenomnom]

Addai67 wrote...

I faved your Loghain drawing.  [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/love.png[/smilie]

I don't know what you're talking about when you say you can't do hair, either.  His looks great!  Can't really give art advice, though.  I'm a doofus with art.

Aw, thanks! Did you also comment on it?  That is -- I responded to a comment recently -- so maybe it was yours?
Heh, I think most anyone is qualified to give art advice to at least some extent. I'd give the average person at least enough credit to be able to determine "his eyebrow looks funny," yeah?  But of course I won't complain if you only give me compliments, haha...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

That actually reminds me of Caesar in HBO's Rome.

Very well done!

I haven't seen it, but I looked it up so I could see what you were talking about, and I can see why you'd say that (and would agree)!
Thank you! Hopefully I won't muck it all up when I go to draw the armor.

Modifié par Bitenomnom, 09 avril 2011 - 04:18 .