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[Giggles_Manically]

If The Witcher had better VO, better facial animations, better combat, and better pacing I would think its great.

As it is, it has moments of awesome, fouled by utterly disgusting moments of failure.

[KnightofPhoenix]

For me, writing and story takes precedence above everything else. And nothing Bioware produced that I've played, Origins included, is on the same level as The Witcher 2 for me, with the possible exception of companions (a formula I am mostly losing interest in and I found TW2 characters to be more interesting than most Bioware characters). But in everything else, the Witcher beats it decisively in my eyes. Of course it's mostly subjective.

The Witcher world trailer alone probably has more politics in it than any Bioware game. And that's just the trailer. 
It's like they created it just for me.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 07 juillet 2011 - 03:27 .

[Zjarcal]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

@Monica

Well, I liked DA2... a lot (despite the issues), but KoP on the other hand hates it... a lot, so eh, your mileage will definitely vary.

I don't hate it. If I did, I would have given it a 2/10 and not a 6.

I find it mediocre and it gets on my nerves in a lot of ways. But I don't hate it.

I know, I was making liberal use of the word hate to convey your strong dislike for most of it. 

EDIT: Just saw that trailer and now I can safely say that you are absolutely right about TW2 being objectively better in the politcal aspect.

Modifié par Zjarcal, 07 juillet 2011 - 03:32 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Zjarcal wrote...
EDIT: Just saw that trailer and now I can safely say that you are absolutely right about TW2 being objectively better in the politcal aspect.

And that's nothing, trust me. The game has a much larger thing going on.

[Monica21]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...
EDIT: Just saw that trailer and now I can safely say that you are absolutely right about TW2 being objectively better in the politcal aspect.

And that's nothing, trust me. The game has a much larger thing going on.

I just watched too, and that looks very impressive. I'm not sure if I can effectively play a male who's that sexy though.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Monica21 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...
EDIT: Just saw that trailer and now I can safely say that you are absolutely right about TW2 being objectively better in the politcal aspect.

And that's nothing, trust me. The game has a much larger thing going on.

I just watched too, and that looks very impressive. I'm not sure if I can effectively play a male who's that sexy though.

...Geralt is supposed to be an ugly freak

[Zjarcal]

He IS an ugly freak! At least his pony version makes him pleasant to look in a way. 

[Monica21]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
...Geralt is supposed to be an ugly freak

Well, they did a poor job. But I think Loghain is sexy so wtf do I know? 

[KnightofPhoenix]

Zjarcal wrote...

He IS an ugly freak! At least his pony version makes him pleasant to look in a way. 

I actually think Geralt is the pleasant kind of ugly freak. I especially like his eyes. And hair.
Something strangely endearing about him. My theory is that it's the cat eyes, since cats are my only weakness.

Monica21 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
...Geralt is supposed to be an ugly freak [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/lol.png[/smilie]

Well, they did a poor job. But I think Loghain is sexy so wtf do I know? [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/grin.png[/smilie]

Geralt was uglier in TW1, though strangely more people find him a freak in TW2 than TW1. In fact one prostitute says that Geralt is so ugly that it's attractive.

[Addai]

Geralt is hot. I prefer the TW1 version.  I would call it more a "manly presence" than any one feature.  Obviously he's rough around the edges, but it's part of the charm.

Modifié par Addai67, 07 juillet 2011 - 04:30 .

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

I myself prefer a game that succeeds in well written strangeness and lore, especially in the technical areas.The weirder, the better. DA certainly started with the potential, though I'm not to keen on some of the gameplay/world/lore changes, and there seems to be a trend toward streamlining and dubing down of the whole setting. Certainly not good.

I do hope that The Witcher franchise expands alot more, and that more variety of games with more variety of protagonist/character options become available, as it seems most other RPG settings seem to be diminishing in quality, sadly. Awesome buttons seem to be the thing.

[KnightofPhoenix]

I think The Witcher has quite a bit of strange lore bits. Magic is much less limited in The Witcher (you can uncloth via magic, though I am not a fan, unclothing is part of the fun). There is also the Wild Hunt, genetic engineering, spectral battles, cool and strange monsters...etc.

They are more or less in the bg in TW2 imo, which is much more focused on the human / political aspects of the universe, which I whole heartily approve. But there are bits and pieces of strangeness that are there, but which do not eclypse the human aspect of it. There is also a succubus you can have sex with.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 07 juillet 2011 - 02:43 .

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

If it's female, Geralt can shag it. Period. Doesn't even have to be corpreal.

I think the game universe is certainly developed enough that it can branch off into many various avenues, different stories and characters. the raw fuel is certainly present.

What is nice is getting away from the old hero's journey theme that have defined games in general. With as popular as Planescape: Torment was, you would have thought more developers would start exploring less conventional plotlines and themes. But JRPGs seem to be influencing the way alot of western RPG's are being developed, with all the streamlining, simplification, and general moral polarity.

regardless, if RPG's seem destined for a dim creative future, there's always strategy games. Someone always manages to put out pretty decent ones frequently.

[KnightofPhoenix]

I think the Witcher deviates from the old hero's journey in a lot of ways. Geralt is not really a hero imo. Perhaps he had a more heroic vibe to him in TW1, but in TW2 I think it's much less pronounced. In large part because the conspiracy he's supposed to uncover was largely successful.

But certainly, I want it to go as far away from the old hero's journey as much as possible.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 07 juillet 2011 - 11:23 .

[CalJones]

Can I just say....page 400! Woohoo! Go Loghain!

OK, so, Witcher 2. It looks fantastic. The world politics are interesting and there are, indeed, some good characters. Compared to DA2 it's like comparing the Sistine Chapel to a kid's painting.
Thing is, I just don't find it all that much fun to play. I've played through it twice and I enjoy the stories and appreciate the difference (I've even had a few "OMFG!" moments at some of the things that happened - I like that) but when I think about playing through again, I find myself unmotivated.
Yet, DA2, for all its facepalm-inducing plot points, I find very playable. I think they got the mechanics right because I just enjoy myself when I play it. I want to enjoy Witcher 2 more, but I don't. (In fact, I only managed two playthroughs of Witcher 1, too, vs umpteen of Origins).

[Addai]

I don't mind a hero's journey story line. Heroes can be complex, too. Plus I like a somewhat happy ending, which means someone I like has to win- or to die in a satisfying way, at least.

I'm reading an anthology called Warriors (edited by GRRM) so I have some examples in mind, but no one's read them I'm sure.

[Brockololly]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
The Witcher world trailer alone probably has more politics in it than any Bioware game. And that's just the trailer. 
It's like they created it just for me.

That has to be one of my favorite game trailers ever. I just love the 2D animation there.

[Costin_Razvan]

 A game is not all about replayability. Personally I problably spent more hours in ME2 then I ever will on TW2, but that doesn't make ME2 a superior game.

I only played Alpha Protocol twice for an example, that's about 20 hours. Yet still it ranks 3rd on the greatest RPG I ever played ( beaten by TW1 and TW2 ). 

To answer why TW1 and 2 are so amazing is that you are asked many times to answer for why choose one path or another, to determine why Geralt cares or not for certain things. That to me IS far better then anything Bioware offers us in character custimization.

Geralt looks like a complete badass. In-game shot from my playthrough.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 08 juillet 2011 - 08:38 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

CalJones wrote...
OK, so, Witcher 2. It looks fantastic. The world politics are interesting and there are, indeed, some good characters. Compared to DA2 it's like comparing the Sistine Chapel to a kid's painting.
Thing is, I just don't find it all that much fun to play. I've played through it twice and I enjoy the stories and appreciate the difference (I've even had a few "OMFG!" moments at some of the things that happened - I like that) but when I think about playing through again, I find myself unmotivated.
Yet, DA2, for all its facepalm-inducing plot points, I find very playable. I think they got the mechanics right because I just enjoy myself when I play it. I want to enjoy Witcher 2 more, but I don't. (In fact, I only managed two playthroughs of Witcher 1, too, vs umpteen of Origins).

Different strokes. I am planning to replay my canon playthrough of TW2.

Personally, I cant even think of playing DA2 again. You know those games that you think and tell yourself you want to play again, but never end up doing so? It's not even that with DA2. It's not because it's horrible, it's not, but because I have no fun at all playing it now, I'll need an entirely different mindset.

But like Costin thing, I don't think replayability is everything. I played AP only once, because as far as I am concerned I got the perfect ending, but I still enjoy it.


@ Addai
I don't mind a character's journey, it's the hero part that is losing my interest, because I've seen way too many, especially if there is a big bad evil obstacle in the way.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 08 juillet 2011 - 02:32 .

[Addai]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
@ Addai
I don't mind a character's journey, it's the hero part that is losing my interest, because I've seen way too many, especially if there is a big bad evil obstacle in the way.

The big evil can make for such interesting turns of character, though.  Since I tend to like a flawed or dark protagonist, an anti-hero, having something big and bad puts those characters on a heroic path (like renegade Shepard).

A more level playing field can be good, but some stories are so nihilistic that it leaves me feeling alienated by them, like "what was the point."  That's much my reaction to DA2.

Modifié par Addai67, 08 juillet 2011 - 03:40 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Addai67 wrote...
A more level playing field can be good, but some stories are so nihilistic that it leaves me feeling alienated by them, like "what was the point."  That's much my reaction to DA2.

But DA2 ended up with the big bad evil mentality. Demons \\ thin veil \\ idol. That, in addition to it being badly written, is what annoys me about it. That it took away human agency and made everyone into a lunatic.
Act 2 was less so, but Petrice was not as well developped and the logic behind siding with her is broken. And the Qunari have no good reason to be there.

In TW2 for example, there is no big bad. There is an antagonist, but a human and reasonable one. And I never felt confused about the point of the game or felt it was nihilistic.

I am not saying hero's journey is bad, some can be good. But I am getting bored of the formula personally.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 08 juillet 2011 - 03:50 .

[CalJones]

Oh I agree, the story in Witcher 2 was far superior. There was a lot I liked about it but I felt the mechanics were flawed.

DA2 is the opposite. What I do like about it, though, are the small quests. I think, hey, I've got 15 minutes before I have to leave for work, I can squeeze another quest in. It's like reading books with short chapters - you can always squeeze another in before you get to your stop on the tube/train/bus, so you end up reading it faster. I find it quite addictive, like that. I also enjoy trying different builds. One that surprised me was the assassin archer which turned out to be absolutely awesome and loads of fun. The weakness of the story really only bothered me on the first playthrough or two - now I know it by heart, I just enjoy playing the game for the, well, gameplay.

[KnightofPhoenix]

That's why I'd need a different mindset to enjoy the game. Gameplay is important, but if I think the story is bad, I can't enjoy the game (at least when it comes to RPGs). Add to that, that I didn't enjoy the gameplay because of the wave system.

That's why I can play Alpha Protocol again, despite having a broken gameplay, and not DA2.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 08 juillet 2011 - 04:59 .

[CalJones]

I still haven't played that. I think I will - I've run out of things to play now, DLCs aside.

[Costin_Razvan]

The awesomeness of Alpha Protocol can be summed up in once sentence the PC gives.

"So. I don't need you anymore. I can make my own Halbech, then I can make the world any way I want." and he means it! The Epilogue Slide even tells you that your PC became the Illusive Man in the AP universe.

Of course you can choose to not go down this path. All up to you

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 08 juillet 2011 - 11:50 .