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[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

I prefer the idea of a nemesis/antagonist who is somehow closely linked to the protagonist in some interesting signifigant way, over a big bad type. The most interesting enemy is one who is either human, or otherwise complex. Having big powers or making things glow does not really make an enemy interesting or memorable. The hero's journey can certainly be made interesting, but it has been done quite a bit. About the only way I could see the hero's journey improve if the big mega-bad was something more than a big blobby monster that wants to mindlessly destroy or take over the world for no reason, or cliche reasons. I would prefer something that is truly frightening, creepy, and woven into the story in some sort of progressive, yet bizarre way. Whose motive and end plan involves something from the most twisted depths of the humanoid psyche. That signifgantly drives you, as a player, to want to confront it, for a myriad of reasons.

When it comes to DA:O, I think that the Blight and archdemon should have been developed differently, in ways that made the blight something more than black moldy monsters and a big purply dragon turning everything black. That was my only real problem with the story.

Of course, too much nihlism sucks, and a too dystopian/f*cked up setting would be pointless.A healthy mix and balance would be ideal.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

I prefer the idea of a nemesis/antagonist who is somehow closely linked to the protagonist in some interesting signifigant way, over a big bad type. The most interesting enemy is one who is either human, or otherwise complex.

That pretty much sums up Letho, the Kingslayer from TW2, for me.
The ending I had with him was perfect imo.

Spoilers: I let him go. The complete avoidance of fighting him at the end was more satisfying to me than any boss fight, mediocre or otherwise.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 09 juillet 2011 - 01:24 .

[billy the squid]

I let Letho go to. I rather enjoyed the reasoning behind Letho's actions, without condemning or condoning I could understand why he allied himself with Nilfgaard. For me Emyhr's patronage appears to be a means to an end for Letho, but whether he will remain an ally or become, however unwillingly a servant and agent of Emyhr, like the Scoi' atel before him is something that intrests me.

I consider Emyhr far too shrewd a ruler to allow Letho to slip from his grasp, particularly when examining the chaos that he instigated in the Northern Kingdoms, he would make a useful tool, but also a dangerous one if not kept neutral or aligned with Nilfgaard's interests.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

I prefer the idea of a nemesis/antagonist who is somehow closely linked to the protagonist in some interesting signifigant way, over a big bad type. The most interesting enemy is one who is either human, or otherwise complex.

That pretty much sums up Letho, the Kingslayer from TW2, for me.
The ending I had with him was perfect imo.

Sounds nice. One doesn't need an insane boss fight or "yay, saved the world", nor does one's antagonist need to die or be beaten into submission to have an epic video game Hell, one doesn't need to "win" per se.

Witcher 2 does sound nice. I think eventually, I might get it in the later future. I'd also have to find my old copy of Witcher 1, though, and replay to import a save. Dunno if I even still have it, it's been like 3 or more years at least since I played it.

Like I said, I hope they expand the Witcher Franchise into many different types and styles of RPG, but continue to develop and keep the high strangeness and edgieness. That certainly would be awesome, and would help to save RPGs in general.

By the way, any news of a sequel for Sins of a Solar Empire? Now there's a game I'd totally pre-order a part 2 for......

[KnightofPhoenix]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

By the way, any news of a sequel for Sins of a Solar Empire? Now there's a game I'd totally pre-order a part 2 for......

No, but there is a new expansion coming! Rebellion.
Which sounds awesome.

And agreed on a game not needing the PC to win. DA2 aimed for that I think, but it becomes meh if it's in large part because the PC is too lazy to do much (add to that everyone acting like an idiot). In TW2, Geralt doesn't win perse, the Kingslaying Conspiracy he set out to uncover was more or less succesful, though potentially not fully thanks to his efforts.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 09 juillet 2011 - 02:48 .

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...


No, but there is a new expansion coming! Rebellion.
Which sounds awesome.

......Hell yes..........think of the possibilities of dealing with rebel factions within the big 3......

And agreed on a game not needing the PC to win. DA2 aimed for that I think, but it becomes meh if it's in large part because the PC is too lazy to do much (add to that everyone acting like an idiot). In TW2, Geralt doesn't win perse, the Kingslaying Conspiracy he set out to uncover was more or less succesful, though potentially not fully thanks to his efforts.

Yeah, well crafted inevitable failure can be even better than success, provided it's just that: well crafted. Like, the PC working torwards a particular end or series of ends, trying to prevent a certain outcome, or is seeking something, only to have the whole thing blow up in their face or be twisted into something completely unintended, but well hinted at throughout the game. Like, subtle but very well placed and developed hints, clues, sugegstions buried throughout the game in a veiled, but definite link, that hinted at the real possibility of inevitable failure. It can be anything, from an even more diabolically clever or powerful adversary, circumstances and incidents beyond PC control, fate, human nature, ect.

Like, playing a game in search of goal x, expecting to fight enemy y or something similar, yet ending up shocked that instead, the final enemy/dilema/climax point is in fact, z, which, upon looking back, was very subtly, but elegantly, being suggested throught the story upon closer examination.

A complete WTF ending, in the more positive sense. If a movie writer can pull such ideas off and make some memorable film moments, I'm sure any really creative and devious developer could do the same.

[KnightofPhoenix]

The Titan class warships sound epic. And new capital ships!
And I am guessing they were maybe inspired by what is happening in the Arab world?

I personally prefer the bitttersweet. A mix of success and failure. But I agree that a well-crafted failure could be very interesting.

[CalJones]

I let Letho go, too. I didn't see the point of killing him, ultimately.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Yes, bittersweet is best, I agree, for endings. Anything but "Yay, we saved the world".

Speaking of Sins, I found my screenshot folder. Behold, the Orgasmatron, preparing to vaporize a Vasari starbase



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[KnightofPhoenix]

Orgasmatron is such an epic name.
But now I wonder what you would name your Titan class warship.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Have to see it in action to get a taste of its soul. Cleansing brilliance and detonate antimatter or like vessels of orgasmic armageddon, so to speak. Deotante anti-matter+ Malice+Cleansing brilliance = Tragic and frequent loss of Vasari capital ships.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Can't wait to read about the Advent Titan class warship.

Hmmm, you're making me want to replay Sins. Epic game.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

I was pleased to discover my cousin back home had it, and we played a few matches against each other. It is an epic game. Hell, as soon as I finish playing my canon run for DAO, I am going to finish up a Vasari playthrough I started a week ago. Maybe by after that, get DA2 if the price dropped any.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Oooh canon run? I'd be interested in learning about her if you have the time / desire to.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Yep, finally doing my canon run so I will at least have it ready for import into DA2, as well as for the memories. I'll tell ya all about it whenever you like. I wanted to make sure I ahve a proper canon to import for DA2. Prices already dropping on Amazon, and if nothing else, I can at least taint the DA2 forums with my own special brand of evil.

But even if I find DA2 to be depressingly suckworthy, I am extremely pleased to see that the Sins franchise is still kicking out what look to be mroe awesome expansions. I enjoyed spending bonding time with my cousin back home playing campaingns against him, it seems I taught him the art of gaming well. As soon as he gets his proper gaming computer online connected to the net, we might start setting up multiplayer sessions and have some intergalatic family feuds.

[KnightofPhoenix]

The best kind of feuds.

Eh, my family was always too nice. We usually always played co-op in any game (video game or otherwise), and not against each other, with the exception of RISK (I was such a good liar in that game).

And I must stress that I didn't find DA2 horrible. Or even bad perse. Just mediocre, with what I saw as a bad story (Templar / mage specifically was a debacle imo) despite some few positive points here and there. And it gets on my nerves. And it caused me to not care about DA as much as I did before. But it may be fun...if you have a very different mindset from mine.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 10 juillet 2011 - 02:46 .

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Well, me being an only child, my cousins became my siblings, as my extended family was quite close. My younger cousin in question was like my own little brother to torture, corrupt, and mold in my own image. When I babysat him, we either played my my uncle's old apple PC (total green screener) or on the console (first Atari, then later Nintendo). And naturally, I never played nice with him, lol. And now as we are both mentally deranged adults, I am proud to say my ruthlessness in pixel warfare has rubbed off on him. I am quite proud: my young protoge' is as evil as I am now.

Yeah, I know what you mean by DA2. The mage/templar conflict was one of my top favorite aspects of the game world (along with the awesomeness that is the dwarven master race), as well as the physics/metaphysics/"science" of magic and the Fade. Sadly, from what I've seen they really destroyed and made a simplistic joke of it, when I feel that there was massive potential to really weave a complicated, but fascinating dynamic of conflict that is multi-faceted in it's issues. But it seems they decided oversimplification and 2 sided polarities are more "streamlined".

I myself am not automatically expecting it to be horrific (otherwise, I'd not bother). In fact, there's a number of things I am looking forward to seeing and testing (like the friend/rival system). But, given what I have seen on You Tube (and I seriously cringed at the whole battle with Meredith, the flying evil nun) as well as reviews, I at least am not expecting anything epic or moving.

Except Anders blowing up the Chantry, bless his schitzo abomination heart. As dumb as it is to blow up the Chantry without any further battle plan, the fact that it was done by a raving, but adorable cat loving lunatic lunatic anarchist with raw sewage and magic makes it an even more special "Kodak Moment".

[CalJones]

It was one of the best moments in the game. And actually, there are some good parts. It just feels rushed. As I've said before, I like the gameplay mechanics very much; I like the friend/rival system and messing around with character builds is great fun. But the story gets very weak in chapter 3. Prepare for a few facepalm-inducing moments there.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Yes, I've seen some of the facepalm inducing moments on you tube. But I've heard act 2 was pretty awesome, and if nothing else, I am looking forward to it.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

Yes, I've seen some of the facepalm inducing moments on you tube. But I've heard act 2 was pretty awesome, and if nothing else, I am looking forward to it.

Act 2 is good in isolation. But I fear it's partially the reason why the Templar / mage conflict is a debacle. Because Bioware focused on multiple plots and not just one. Act 2 should have been about the mage resistance. Furthermore, Act 2 is imo, pretty pointless in regards to mage / Templars (the only semblance of a main story in this game). It's there because...it's just there. With a pretty poor reason.

I'd rather remove the Qunari (and put them in sidequests) and focus on mage / Templars.

[CalJones]

Well, not really. The events of Chapter 2 lead to Meredith assuming power in Chapter 3. The Qunari plot also involves the Chantry, which is another major factor in the end game. And then there are numerous other quests involving mages and templars - just smaller scale at that stage of the game. It's like a lot of threads coming together. Admittedly, they don't come together all that well, but I think that's more a result of rushed dev time than anything.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Meredith assuming power did not need the Qunari, and they had her show up too late. The Chantry is not a player in Act 3, they are precisely too incompetent to do anything.

All of that, did not require the Qunari to be there. Act 2 could have led to all these, while still focusing on mage / Templars. Specifically, the mage resistance. As it stands, the Qunari have a poor reason to be there, both in-game and out, and they are a major reason why the whole story is disjointed.

[Addai]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

Yes, I've seen some of the facepalm inducing moments on you tube. But I've heard act 2 was pretty awesome, and if nothing else, I am looking forward to it.

Eh, I think "awesome" is going quite far.  The Arishok had potential, but in the end he's just a doofus.  I think people are just looking for things to redeem the game.  I've given up trying to do so.  If you can find it on sale, though, it's fun enough to be worth it.

Here's a new Loghain art.  She says she drew it while drunk.  Not bad for all that. lol



by Pau-Norontaus

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

@Addai and KoP: Good point. If act 2 is about little else other than the Qunari, then yeah, that's incredibly disjointed. It sounds like it was a gem in it's own right artificially jammed in out of context. Side quests would have been better, I agree, for the Qunari.

I think the reason people say Act 2 rocked is because I heard it has some semblance  of coherent plot and choice.  Would have been fine had they had managed to successfully tie it into the mage/templar conflict in some major manner.

If nothing else, though, I agree, Act 2 should have focused behind the scenes of both mages and templars, especially on the resistance and the political fraternities within the Circle. That would have been even more interesting, to see how the Libertarians and Resolutionists differ, how the Aequetarians and Loyalists are trying to deal with it, and how the Isolationists and Lucrosians are using the tensions to push their own agendas. This is the kind of stuff that I think really should be pretty central to the mage side of things.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Like Addai said, the Qunari turned out to be idiots at the end. And the only choice we had in Act 2 has a broken logic (you can only do it if you are aggressive in personality for no reason). And there is no reason why Meredith is not involved (other than Bioware being unable to do anything that isn't bipolar. Having more than 2 factions with an incompetent 3rd, is too much!!). Act 2 is hardly a gem in its own right imo. But it's decent, especially compared to the disaster that is Act 3.

If the game had an overall quality like Act 2, I would have considered it decent. As it stands however, its overall shell of a story is a debacle imo. And only makes sense to me as a humorous political parody. Which is the mindset I advise you to play with. I am really being serious here. If you try to take it seriously, you are probably going to end up with a headache like I did. If you see as as intentionally funny and ridiculous, you might get a few laughs from it.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 11 juillet 2011 - 01:21 .