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[KnightofPhoenix]

I once upon a time started a fic. Gave up after the third chapter.
So really, fics are not my thing as I lose interest quickly (hence why I am waiting for them to finish), and professionally reviewing them is even less so. I can review the whole story, just not individual chapters.

So apologies for my lack of constructive criticism and general support for fics.

[Addai]

It's hard to review, especially individual chapters. Really I didn't even know that was a thing people did until I started this one. I'm such a fanfiction virgin.

All in all I think readership is down for Origins stuff- people have moved on- thankfully not all.

[Mike3207]

I like reading the fanfictions, although there are too many F Couslands-Alistair fictions on there. I also like reading the Loghain survives scenarios. I just wish there were more fictions covering the Anora-Male Cousland marriage.

[Addai]

I take it you have read Queen of Thorns? My husband liked that one.

[Mike3207]

Addai67 wrote...

I take it you have read Queen of Thorns? My husband liked that one.

I've read it and liked it-I just wish there was more out there like that. I also read a bit of Shades of Gray(think that's the title), but that Aedan was a bit too evil for me to read the whole thing.

[Addai]

Mike Smith wrote...
I've read it and liked it-I just wish there was more out there like that. I also read a bit of Shades of Gray(think that's the title), but that Aedan was a bit too evil for me to read the whole thing.

Well as I like to say, the solution to that problem is to write one yourself!

[Morwen Eledhwen]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

Morwen Eledhwen wrote...


Haha, yeah, I do realize that I've damned myself by not featuring either a Cousland or Alistair, but, well, that wasn't the story I wanted to write.

Its generally something that I noticed in all genere/story worlds of FFNet: the most popular, most widely read stories are romances, which usually end up just a retelling of the same game everyone else has played a million times, with protagonists that are really not terribly interesting, and the entire focus is some soppy, lame romance that would interest regular harlequin readers more than me.

Though I haven't read any DA fan fics, I can imagine that this trend would be similar, especially the popularity of Alistair/princess cous cous scenarios. Because you have broken this popular mold, and have decided to go in a very different direction than what is popular, you will likely have a smaller audience.

Of course, this is not a necessarily bad thing. The few fan fics I've actually read that I thought were unique, original, and interesting had a smaller readership, but their readership consisted of more intelligent readers. Popularity doesn't equal quality, and given the the popular fics feature bland, generic Mary Sues, I'd count your blessings if your readership is a small, but very intelligent group that appreciates good, original writing over other crap.

I think one of the few fan fics that I've ever read that I really thought was Aesome was one that was an Arcanum fic. And I think it only had three regular readers, myself included. Yet it pretty much beat out anything I had read across several genres, and to me, was worth it.

Oh, you're absolutely right. Though admittedly reader/writership of DA:O fics is down, there are still plenty of Ali/Cous Cous (or Ali/Mahariel) fics out there that fall exactly into that harlequin/teen dream romance category. I have no interest in playing to that audience. It'd be nice if I could lure some of them over to the dark side , but I'm certainly not going to change what I write just to gain their approval.

I don't mind having a smaller readership if that's what the situation truly is. If the majority of the people who read my story like it, then it doesn't matter if that group is a select one. If, however, there are people out there who would like to read a DA:O story in which Loghain is conscripted and helps end the Blight (with no Couslands involved), but find that they don't like how mine is written, that would be a concern.

[Addai]

Morwen Eledhwen wrote...
I don't mind having a smaller readership if that's what the situation truly is. If the majority of the people who read my story like it, then it doesn't matter if that group is a select one. If, however, there are people out there who would like to read a DA:O story in which Loghain is conscripted and helps end the Blight (with no Couslands involved), but find that they don't like how mine is written, that would be a concern.

I've heard that AU stories are more popular, especially these days as the few people who read DA stuff have read a lot of playthrough stories.  My Alistair- Mahariel story got very few views and hardly any reviews, though the few I got were all positive.  Who knows.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Addai67 wrote...


I've heard that AU stories are more popular, especially these days as the few people who read DA stuff have read a lot of playthrough stories.  My Alistair- Mahariel story got very few views and hardly any reviews, though the few I got were all positive.  Who knows.

Then its likely you did write a  good story. And because of this, on FFnet, it didn't get a wider readership, most likely, due to the popularity of more teen-oriented stuff. I've seen this alot, and it is not unusual. But if you get a handful of positive reviews, then you've most likely done well. I might suggest sometime reading one of the more "popular stories", then reading the reviews, and you'll likely see what I mean.

I myself prefer post/aftermath fics, ones that are written after the events of the game and expansions, as those tend to be the most interesting to me. I agree, though, AU's, across genres, see to be highly popular and wideley read, right after main campaign retellings.

[Addai]

Oh yeah, I don't sweat it. I write to amuse myself mostly. Honestly I thought no one would read a Loghain story. Heh. I really have got no clue what people like, so I write the sort of stuff I want to read.

Well, sort of. I can't write action for ****. Trying to work on that.

[Dave of Canada]

Stupid random question.

Trying to create a metagame playthrough where I'm trying to create the most powerful Ferelden without the Warden, meaning that we're not going to be relying on features which won't be explored because they don't want to retcon some Wardens.

Now I've nailed down almost every detail except for a few, though the biggest problem for the future of Ferelden comes from Loghain. I'm curious what you all feel is better for Ferelden, Loghain's sacrifice or Loghain surviving (Warden does the US).

What I'm thinking:
The morale boost from Loghain's sacrifice can be extremely beneficial to Ferelden and Anora can use her father as an icon, though that's all it really achieves. In the Ferelden / Orlais war, I'm sure Loghain will be used to inspire troops and fight back.

Now in the case that he's still alive, I assume he'd be unable to sit by and allow Orlesians to invade Ferelden without doing anything. I'd assume he'd rage quit and come back to Ferelden, possibly regaining his position as General from Anora (much to all Ostagar survivor's chagrin) to help in Ferelden's defense.

Argh, can't think of the best route. Hero Loghain vs General Loghain. D:

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 16 août 2011 - 03:36 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Honestly, I think Ferelden would be better off with Loghain hero, for several reasons:

- Some in the bannorn will not forgive what he did. The previous Orlesian invasion so easily defeated Ferelden because nobles defected to it. A pissed off Bannorn is a potential tool for Orlais, and easy to manipulate.

- Related, his reputation was weakened at the very best, shattered at worst. I expect a number would not be enthusiastic to take orders from him again. Also keep in mind that Loghain put down a lot of riots in his regency. I think most people love Loghain, but there's a lot of bad blood surrounding him. Add to that his association with Howe, Uldred, Jowan, poisoning of Eamon, Tevinter slavers...etc

- I think Loghain, by his very nature, would overshadow the monarch. In this case, Anora. I think that was the biggest mistake he committed. That he cast her aside. And I think Loghain is Anora's biggest weakness, so much that she is willing to risk too much just to keep him alive. Understandable of course, but a monarch can't afford to behave like that, imo. I think Anora is better off with Loghain dead as a hero.

- Finally, the power of symbols cannot be understated. The Hero of the River Dain being pseudo exiled from his land, stripped of his titles and bound to a foreign order is a blow to his image. Him sacrificing his life for Ferelden on the otherhand, is a powerful symbol, on top of his already powerful prestige. I think his death would be more inspiring than his presence. Because his death represents, imo, Ferelden tenacity, sacrifice and love for the country.

Now the con to all this is, who would lead Ferelden's armies? Who is the alternative? I do not see any personally.

So it's tough, but I believe the pros of a Hero Loghain outweight the cons.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 16 août 2011 - 03:57 .

[Dave of Canada]

All very good points, though I doubt the bannorn care much for what he did considering how they'd been sitting on almost blind worship of Loghain until the Warden appeared in the Landsmeet. Should one fail the Landsmeet and Eamon triggers the fight, Loghain essentially has full support from all of Ferelden and the Warden achieves by some miracle.

Reputation is tarnished, yeah. Can't argue with that.

Curious: I don't feel too comfortable with King Alistair sitting on the throne myself, though I'm curious. What'd you think of King Alistair and Anora sitting on the throne with Loghain? I'm sure Anora would be willing to do a lot for her father, like you've mentioned, though wouldn't Alistair's intervention to try and spite / keep Loghain away counter-balance Anora's weakness through Loghain?

[Mike3207]

Weisshaupt sends him to Orlais regardless of who marries Anora. The difference is that he probably visits Denerim with a Cousland marriage or solo Anora, while he would stay in Orlais with Alistair on the throne. I don't imagine he spends enough time in Ferelden after the Blight for it to be a issue.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Dave of Canada wrote...

All very good points, though I doubt the bannorn care much for what he did considering how they'd been sitting on almost blind worship of Loghain until the Warden appeared in the Landsmeet. Should one fail the Landsmeet and Eamon triggers the fight, Loghain essentially has full support from all of Ferelden and the Warden achieves by some miracle.

The Banns in the Landsmeet are not all in the Bannorn (as in the regional appelation), which revolted against Loghain. Alfstanna is the Bann of the Waking Sea, Sighard of Dragon's Peak. Both are not physically in the Bannorn. Of course we were not able to talk with every single noble, but Bodahn says, if Loghain is spared, that while most are happy with the decision, some n the Bannorn are very pissed off. 

Now I agree that most Banns wouldn't mind that much by default (though could always be bought by Orlais). But I think some would be very angry. Loghain afterall, was quite ruthless when dealing with them, as per the rumours, gossips and stories we hear.

Curious: I don't feel too comfortable with King Alistair sitting on the throne myself, though I'm curious. What'd you think of King Alistair and Anora sitting on the throne with Loghain? I'm sure Anora would be willing to do a lot for her father, like you've mentioned, though wouldn't Alistair's intervention to try and spite / keep Loghain away counter-balance Anora's weakness through Loghain?

I am not a fan of the couple myself, because I saw a better alternative in the game (becoming Prince consort of course ). But I have to say, that in the scenario of a disapeared Warden, hero Loghain and imminent war, I believe that Alistair and Anora are the better option. Though holding a not so impressive career, Alistair has more military experience than Anora, that's for certain. And she would be vital in all the logistics, politicking and negotiations.

I believe that Anora and Alsitair as monarchs, with Loghain alive, might create more friction than balance. Alistair is very clearly bitter and DA2 showed that he didn't get over it. Anora idolizes her father. Honestly, I do not put it past Alistair, who is not the most rational person imo, to keep contradicting her out of spite. At least when hardened. Sure he grows a backbone, but I do not see maturity accompanying it. 
Alistair apparently would still be bitter if Loghain died, but to some extent it's better than him alive and as a warden (aka a constant insult, frm his own perspective). He is more likely to get over it then.

But that's a major reason why the couple is not that appealing to me, unless with an unhardened Alistair, primarily because I do not trust him to be rational and pragmatic enough to stay out of Anora's way (who imo is clearly the better monarch). It risks creating paralysis. 

[Morwen Eledhwen]

For his experience in war relative to my PC's alone, I've elected to keep him alive in all the playthroughs in which I've spared him except for my current one, in which my Cousland will marry Anora. I think in this case the country should be kept secure enough between the two of us to allow Loghain to sacrifice himself for all the good reasons that KoP stated. When my PC was either a Mage or a Dalish archer, however, the situation felt a little differently and I couldn't deprive post-Blight Ferelden of that kind of experience.

[phaonica]

I think that if you're not doing the DR, that it is probably best for Ferelden for Loghain to be the one to be sacrificed, mostly because of the power of symbols. Due to his actions during the Blight, I think that he would no longer inspire the people in life like he once did, but that some of his respect could be regained via his sacrifice. I think that would be a more powerful symbol than a relatively unknown Warden making that sacrifice, and I think that the heroic symbol of the Warden would be more inspiring if the Warden were alive.

Knowing that the Warden is going to disappear, and knowing that Anora will refuse to remarry, I think that probably hardened Alistair+Anora is best. I'm not sure if Alistair's experience as a fighter makes him experienced as a general, and as much as I'd like to believe that Loghain taught Anora *something* about military tactics, we don't know. Also, as slim a chance as their is for an heir, the potential might give the pair at least a little more shield from political schemes.

If you put Anora on the throne by herself, Alistair should be executed because he could easily be a symbol of rebellion to latch onto. If you keep Loghain alive, Anora should probably go on the throne by herself because of the friction between her and Alistair.

[phaonica]

Dave of Canada wrote...

All very good points, though I doubt the bannorn care much for what he did considering how they'd been sitting on almost blind worship of Loghain until the Warden appeared in the Landsmeet.

I don't know about that. If they were all blindly following him, there would have been no civil war

Should one fail the Landsmeet and Eamon triggers the fight, Loghain essentially has full support from all of Ferelden and the Warden achieves by some miracle.

Perhaps. One might argue that they side with him because they're desperate, though, and not because they're inspired by him. Once the dust settles, they might not be so forgiving.

Curious: I don't feel too comfortable with King Alistair sitting on the throne myself, though I'm curious. What'd you think of King Alistair and Anora sitting on the throne with Loghain? I'm sure Anora would be willing to do a lot for her father, like you've mentioned, though wouldn't Alistair's intervention to try and spite / keep Loghain away counter-balance Anora's weakness through Loghain?

I think that if Loghain survived, Alistair's attitude would worsen. I think that the counter-balancing conflict between Anora and Alistair would not make up for whatever Loghain was bringing to the table.

Modifié par phaonica, 16 août 2011 - 08:50 .

[Costin_Razvan]

I think that he would no longer inspire the people in life like he once did

You would find that quite not true. While Symbolism would mean quite a lot it should be remembered that any Warden who lets Loghain sacrifice himself would not be remembered too kindly by the army, regardless of reason they would still blame the warden for Loghain's death, it should also be mentioned that Loghain alive would inspire armies during a fight and strike fear in the enemy army, this is something a Loghain who sacrificed himself would never achieve.

As for the Bannorn, right, as if anyone can hope to keep them in line during a war with Orlais. I doubt that very much.

My problem with Hero Loghain is that it would involve both the Archdemon and Loghain losing their souls ( as pointed in the codex and loading screen ) and that's something I would never do if I had an option to not do. If there's a line I draw with my ruthlessness it's there.

Perhaps. One might argue that they side with him because they're desperate, though, and not because they're inspired by him. Once the dust settles, they might not be so forgiving.

If you honestly expect anyone to be consistently loyal in political you can be up for a very rude awakening.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Why would the army be so childish as to blame the Warden for a sacrifice everyone, his men above all, know Loghain is willing to make? It's not like the warden whipped Loghain until he did it. Besides, it's not like they would know about the soul thing. Them acting this way is an insult to Loghain's memory and I don't think any of them would.

The Bannorn rebelling is almost inevitable but it can be mitigated. One should not add more wood to the fire.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 16 août 2011 - 02:24 .

[Morwen Eledhwen]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Why would the army be so childish as to blame the Warden for a sacrifice everyone, his men above all, know Loghain is willing to make? It's not like the warden whipped Loghain until he did it. 

Unless it's Skadi's Warden. . .

[Addai]

Dave of Canada wrote...

All very good points, though I doubt the bannorn care much for what he did considering how they'd been sitting on almost blind worship of Loghain until the Warden appeared in the Landsmeet. Should one fail the Landsmeet and Eamon triggers the fight, Loghain essentially has full support from all of Ferelden and the Warden achieves by some miracle.

Several of the galley people fight for the Warden.  I think it's meant to be a free-for-all so it's hard to tell from this who really has the upper hand.

To your original question, I think Loghain sacrifice and Anora marrying Alistair is the all around best outcome for Ferelden.

[Persephone]

Pssssssssst! Sorry to interrupt but:

It is my delight to announce yet another update!!

Chapter 22 of "The Edge Of The Grey Enigma" can be found here: http://www.fanfictio...t/s/6087280/22/

Reviews are most welcome, especially on this chapter, as it was VERY hard to write. *Hugs* 

[Morwen Eledhwen]

Persephone wrote...

Pssssssssst! Sorry to interrupt but:

It is my delight to announce yet another update!!

Chapter 22 of "The Edge Of The Grey Enigma" can be found here: http://www.fanfictio...t/s/6087280/22/

Reviews are most welcome, especially on this chapter, as it was VERY hard to write. *Hugs* 

Ye gods, woman! You put me to shame with this barrage of new chapters!

And I'm also very behind on my reading (and reviewing). My only excuse is this double meme I'm working on with sleepyowlet over on deviantArt (the one that produced this "portrait" I posted earlier). Since I'm not an actual visual artist, even pencil sketches are taking me forever. Has anyone here ever tried to draw the River Dane Armor set? Argh. . .

But I shall read, soon, I promise. I'd better, before I get too far behind. . .

[Persephone]

Morwen Eledhwen wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Pssssssssst! Sorry to interrupt but:

It is my delight to announce yet another update!!

Chapter 22 of "The Edge Of The Grey Enigma" can be found here: http://www.fanfictio...t/s/6087280/22/

Reviews are most welcome, especially on this chapter, as it was VERY hard to write. *Hugs* 

Ye gods, woman! You put me to shame with this barrage of new chapters!

And I'm also very behind on my reading (and reviewing). My only excuse is this double meme I'm working on with sleepyowlet over on deviantArt (the one that produced this "portrait" I posted earlier). Since I'm not an actual visual artist, even pencil sketches are taking me forever. Has anyone here ever tried to draw the River Dane Armor set? Argh. . .

But I shall read, soon, I promise. I'd better, before I get too far behind. . .

Take your time, hon. More chapters = More reviews. j

And I'll review each and every chapter of yours I haven't reviewed yet tonight.