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Why Teyrn Loghain is the deepest character in Dragon Age


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#10976
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Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

Awakening was great on its own merits, the only real complaint I had were the persistant, irritating bugs that still remain, and are unlikely to be fixed. A shame, really. And like KoP siad, the real shame is that choices and actions in Awakening don't seem to carry over past the game itself. The biggest crime here is the Architect and the Awakening itself, something that holds increidible potential and impact for the future of Thedas, yet seems to have been brushed aside beyond the epilogue.

And by the way, does anyone know much about the blog format on here? I just copied and pasted something for a blog entry from open office (plain text document) yet when I posted the entry, the format is kinda funny, its in blocks that looks like a weird poetry format instead of a short story.

Any idea how to fix this?


That is most unfortunate. The decision regarding the Architect would be one of the most important decision points in the games, or so I would think.

As for the formatting - it does that to me as well. I sometimes compose my replies in Notepad, then copy and paste them in the text box here. Often when I do this, though, the formatting is odd. The only thing I seem to be able to do to fix it is to edit the formatting manually to make it look normal again.

#10977
phaonica

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Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

And by the way, does anyone know much about the blog format on here? I just copied and pasted something for a blog entry from open office (plain text document) yet when I posted the entry, the format is kinda funny, its in blocks that looks like a weird poetry format instead of a short story.

Any idea how to fix this?


Sometimes when I copy-paste directly from notepad (plain text) to the forum, I get that blocky look. I usually turn off word wrap to fix it. I don't know if there is something similar in open office, but that's my only experience with the blocky text.

#10978
Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

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KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...
And by the way, does anyone know much about the blog format on here? I just copied and pasted something for a blog entry from open office (plain text document) yet when I posted the entry, the format is kinda funny, its in blocks that looks like a weird poetry format instead of a short story.

Any idea how to fix this?


I manually fix it. Yea, every single line.



Ugh. Well, guess I better get to work then. <_<

<<<pops headache pills before beginning....

On second thought, forget it. Not worth the hassle. Just have to learn my lesson next time.

@phaonica: I try that next time, turning off word wrap or auto formats and the like when copying and pasting. Thanks for the tip!

Modifié par Skadi_the_Evil_Elf, 25 août 2011 - 11:48 .


#10979
Haradmir

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greengoron89 wrote...

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

Awakening was great on its own merits, the only real complaint I had were the persistant, irritating bugs that still remain, and are unlikely to be fixed. A shame, really. And like KoP siad, the real shame is that choices and actions in Awakening don't seem to carry over past the game itself. The biggest crime here is the Architect and the Awakening itself, something that holds increidible potential and impact for the future of Thedas, yet seems to have been brushed aside beyond the epilogue.

And by the way, does anyone know much about the blog format on here? I just copied and pasted something for a blog entry from open office (plain text document) yet when I posted the entry, the format is kinda funny, its in blocks that looks like a weird poetry format instead of a short story.

Any idea how to fix this?


That is most unfortunate. The decision regarding the Architect would be one of the most important decision points in the games, or so I would think.

As for the formatting - it does that to me as well. I sometimes compose my replies in Notepad, then copy and paste them in the text box here. Often when I do this, though, the formatting is odd. The only thing I seem to be able to do to fix it is to edit the formatting manually to make it look normal again.

I think the Architect will have a chance to matter in future installments of DA. I don't see how he'd matter much for DAII, but he could in the next game.

I'd like to think that the devs have this grand plan for how all your choices will eventually end up mattering very, very much, but I can't bring myself to do that.

Maybe they make it up as they go....or the events of DAIII were intended for DAII, but deadlines got in the way and they had to go with something short.

#10980
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Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...
Lol, no sweat, alot of people picked Harrowmont on their first run, for various reasons, but since then have redone their playthroughs and picked Bhelen. And of course, it's understandable, because you aren't given much to go on in Orzammar, only rumor and innuendo. And then there is the issue of their lackeys: Vartag Gavorn comes off as a really slimey, unlikeable person, which put alot of initial players off picking Bhelen.

Don't worry, you have seen the light. It's never too late to see the errors of ones ways, and correct them.  B)


The most blatant sign that Harrowmont is a terrible choice for king, I thought, was that he never actually promises to lend you aid - only that he'll put it before the Assembly. That alone should have set off my bull**** detector, considering the very nature of dwarven politics and the Assembly's extremely poor track record.

He's certainly never been made king in my subsequent playthroughs - even on my DN one.

And yes, I hate Vartag. He's a terrible representative for the prince, being such a terrible liar and having such abrasive manners (especially for someone supposely eager for the Warden's support). I mean, at least Dulin is actually personable. Bhelen should consider hiring someone much more persuasive.

#10981
Haradmir

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greengoron89 wrote...

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...
Lol, no sweat, alot of people picked Harrowmont on their first run, for various reasons, but since then have redone their playthroughs and picked Bhelen. And of course, it's understandable, because you aren't given much to go on in Orzammar, only rumor and innuendo. And then there is the issue of their lackeys: Vartag Gavorn comes off as a really slimey, unlikeable person, which put alot of initial players off picking Bhelen.

Don't worry, you have seen the light. It's never too late to see the errors of ones ways, and correct them.  B)


The most blatant sign that Harrowmont is a terrible choice for king, I thought, was that he never actually promises to lend you aid - only that he'll put it before the Assembly. That alone should have set off my bull**** detector, considering the very nature of dwarven politics and the Assembly's extremely poor track record.

He's certainly never been made king in my subsequent playthroughs - even on my DN one.

And yes, I hate Vartag. He's a terrible representative for the prince, being such a terrible liar and having such abrasive manners (especially for someone supposely eager for the Warden's support). I mean, at least Dulin is actually personable. Bhelen should consider hiring someone much more persuasive.

I started working for Harrowmont, but once he told me that I had to fight in the Proving to no real purpose exept for earning his loyalty, I decided that he was not the type of man- err, dwarf, who'd be a worthy and capable king....let alone one who'd lead Orzammar forward.

#10982
phaonica

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Haradmir wrote...

I'd like to think that the devs have this grand plan for how all your choices will eventually end up mattering very, very much, but I can't bring myself to do that.


I hope so. I'm hoping that they let us play out some of the mage-templar war, rather than just everything that led up to it. DAO, DAA, and DA2 all feel like the beginning of a story, rather than a full story, and I'm getting kind of tired of it. Cliffhangers tend to be more effective as a tool for retention when the next episode actually resolves the cliffhanger.

#10983
phaonica

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Haradmir wrote...
I started working for Harrowmont, but once he told me that I had to fight in the Proving to no real purpose exept for earning his loyalty, I decided that he was not the type of man- err, dwarf, who'd be a worthy and capable king....let alone one who'd lead Orzammar forward.


I had first thought that if the dwarves really respect the champions of the Provings so much, that maybe I could get on *everyone's* good side by winning the Provings.

#10984
Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

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I still fought in the provings even when I'm supporting Bhelen. For RP purposes that differ from game to game.

But otherwise, no, I've only gone for Harrowmont in one playthrough, and that's because i was doing alot of imaginitive role-playing on the side. But otherwise, I always go for the epic win that is Bhelen. I feel like a complete tool otherwise.

#10985
Haradmir

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phaonica wrote...

Haradmir wrote...
I started working for Harrowmont, but once he told me that I had to fight in the Proving to no real purpose exept for earning his loyalty, I decided that he was not the type of man- err, dwarf, who'd be a worthy and capable king....let alone one who'd lead Orzammar forward.


I had first thought that if the dwarves really respect the champions of the Provings so much, that maybe I could get on *everyone's* good side by winning the Provings.

That's a fair thought, considering their veneration for the Paragons and their reliance on them when it comes to breaking stalemates holding back important decisions.

#10986
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Haradmir wrote...
]I started working for Harrowmont, but once he told me that I had to fight in the Proving to no real purpose exept for earning his loyalty, I decided that he was not the type of man- err, dwarf, who'd be a worthy and capable king....let alone one who'd lead Orzammar forward.


See, I probably would have never caught that on my own. I truly wish I'd brought Zevran with me when talking to Dulin for the first time. He would have happily pointed that out to me, and saved me from dooming Orzammar to failure. :crying:

There were many signs that Harrowmont was a coward that are hard to notice at a glance. The very first time you walk into the Commons, you can see what a wimp the man is (and how much stronger Bhelen is). Bhelen's men are loyal enough that one of them cuts down Harrowmont's lackey right in the middle of a public square.

And what do the rest of Harrowmont's men do in response? They scatter like rodents, not even bothering to ensure the safety of their own leader.

Another thing is, while the promissary notes Vartag gives you are forged, the real notes still have Harrowmont promising land to two major houses just so he can secure their votes. Quite pathetic, if you ask me.

Bah, at least I've crowned Bhelen the last three times I've played (and will on this fifth one as well). He's more deserving of it for more reasons than just being a strong king - I also happen to think he's just a BAMF in general. :devil:

Modifié par greengoron89, 26 août 2011 - 12:19 .


#10987
Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

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Not to mention that Harrowmont's such an idiot, he can't even keep his fighters in the provings from abandoning him. That one guy is even stepping out of the fighting because he thinks Harrowmont has already conceded the throne, based on a freaking rumor. IF Harrowfail can't keep even a handful of guys from backing out of the provings, what kind of commander is he gonna be for Orzammar?

A limp dick one, thats what.

#10988
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Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

Not to mention that Harrowmont's such an idiot, he can't even keep his fighters in the provings from abandoning him. That one guy is even stepping out of the fighting because he thinks Harrowmont has already conceded the throne, based on a freaking rumor. IF Harrowfail can't keep even a handful of guys from backing out of the provings, what kind of commander is he gonna be for Orzammar?

A limp dick one, thats what.


Oh, but Harrowmont is an honorable man who "leads by example", according to Dulin. And what a fine example he sets, if all of his men scamper off with their tails tucked between their legs at the very mention of Bhelen's name.

Such a fail. I'm not sure how the imbecile even became a high-ranking general, much less a candidate for king.

Speaking of which - if Harrowmont was the only person present when Endrin died, and the rumors regarding Endrin's possible poisoning are true, then... :?

Modifié par greengoron89, 26 août 2011 - 12:32 .


#10989
Haradmir

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greengoron89 wrote...

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

Not to mention that Harrowmont's such an idiot, he can't even keep his fighters in the provings from abandoning him. That one guy is even stepping out of the fighting because he thinks Harrowmont has already conceded the throne, based on a freaking rumor. IF Harrowfail can't keep even a handful of guys from backing out of the provings, what kind of commander is he gonna be for Orzammar?

A limp dick one, thats what.


Oh, but Harrowmont is an honorable man who "leads by example", according to Dulin. And what a fine example he sets, if all of his men scamper off with their tails tucked between their legs at the very mention of Bhelen's name.

Such a fail. I'm not sure how the imbecile even became a high-ranking general, much less a candidate for king.

Speaking of which - if Harrowmont was the only person present when Endrin died, and the rumors regarding Endrin's possible poisoning are true, then... :?

"Leads by example?" Yeah well so did Elthina. <_<

I wouldn't put poisoning past him...... :\\

#10990
Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

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greengoron89 wrote...

Oh, but Harrowmont is an honorable man who "leads by example", according to Dulin. And what a fine example he sets, if all of his men scamper off with their tails tucked between their legs at the very mention of Bhelen's name.

Such a fail. I'm not sure how the imbecile even became a high-ranking general, much less a candidate for king.

Speaking of which - if Harrowmont was the only person present when Endrin died, and the rumors regarding Endrin's possible poisoning are true, then... :?



True. Though the letter you find in Harrowmont's estate, that can make it into the hands of the DN, shows that Endrin did want Harrowmont instead of Bhelen to take his place. But then, Endrin's mental state is questionable, and he was looking a little senile. All which gets more apparant in the DN origin.

#10991
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I recall hearing that Endrin was pretty grief stricken by the loss of Trian and the DN, and believed the rumors that Bhelen was the one responsible - that's probably the only reason he wanted Harrowmont to be king, instead.

I guess Harrowmont was banking on Endrin's final words to win him the throne - that, and bribing deshyrs with land (FAIL).

#10992
KnightofPhoenix

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My first character, Arthas Cousland, chose Harrowmont. A conservative himself and who aspires to be honorable and who puts family values above a lot, it made sense for him to pick Harrowmont, in addition to his experience as both administrator and general, something Bhelen lacks.

But of course I as a player was less than impressed with Harrowmont. I have to say though, that while I did think he was a conservative, I did not think he was regressive.

#10993
Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

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Haradmir wrote...
"Leads by example?" Yeah well so did Elthina. <_<

I wouldn't put poisoning past him...... :



LOL, OMG. YES. Elthina=Harrowmont. A very apt comparison, I think. Both spineless, incompetant fools.

I personally don't think Harrowmont even had the balls to pull off something as bold as a poisoning. Let alone the brains to pull it off successfully. :unsure:

#10994
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He doesn't really show signs of being regressive in-game - only that he's a weak king. I imagine most of what he did that was regressive came first from the deshyrs' forked tongues, and he just went along with it because he's such a putz.

#10995
KnightofPhoenix

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greengoron89 wrote...

He doesn't really show signs of being regressive in-game - only that he's a weak king. I imagine most of what he did that was regressive came first from the deshyrs' forked tongues, and he just went along with it because he's such a putz.


The most likely scenario, yes.

#10996
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Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...
LOL, OMG. YES. Elthina=Harrowmont. A very apt comparison, I think. Both spineless, incompetant fools.

I personally don't think Harrowmont even had the balls to pull off something as bold as a poisoning. Let alone the brains to pull it off successfully. :unsure:


In either case, he was the only one present during Endrin's death. How he actually ended up being poisoned still doesn't reflect well on Harrowmont - if he was the only one there, would he not be able to prevent the poisoning somehow? Would he not be suspicious of any food or drink brought to Endrin? Would he not notice anything out of the ordinary, at all?

He seems like a pretty vacuous person, in addition to being a coward. Cailan was thoughtless as well - but at least he was brave (and had Anora to do all of the governing in his stead).

#10997
Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

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greengoron89 wrote...

In either case, he was the only one present during Endrin's death. How he actually ended up being poisoned still doesn't reflect well on Harrowmont - if he was the only one there, would he not be able to prevent the poisoning somehow? Would he not be suspicious of any food or drink brought to Endrin? Would he not notice anything out of the ordinary, at all?



Most likely, when Endrin started choking and turning green, Harrowmont probably ran and called an emergency session of the Assembly to help him decide how best to cure the poisoning...<_<

He seems like a pretty vacuous person, in addition to being a coward. Cailan was thoughtless as well - but at least he was brave (and had Anora to do all of the governing in his stead).



Yeah, Cailan was an idiot, but thankfully, he was enough of an idiot that he was removed from the gene pool before he could do lasting harm. Harrowmont was worse, because he was an idiot, bot a cautious idiot who managed to breed. And live long enough that he could end up becoming an epic idiot.

I definitely give Cailan a Darwin award for his sacrifices in the puruit of improving Ferelden's gene pool...

#10998
KnightofPhoenix

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The real enemies of Orzammar are not people like Harrowmont. The poor guy is just a tool who was probably pushed to being a candidate for the throne. The real vermin are the Deshyrs that Bhelen silenced.

#10999
Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

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KnightofPhoenix wrote...

The real enemies of Orzammar are not people like Harrowmont. The poor guy is just a tool who was probably pushed to being a candidate for the throne. The real vermin are the Deshyrs that Bhelen silenced.



Like the Bannorn is to Ferelden, basically. Especially people like Eamon, who spent alot of time breaking and molding Alistair into a pliable tool. And who, regardless, seems to be continuing to stir up conflict in the Bannorn, regardless of who is on the throne.

#11000
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You know, similar to the Bhelen/Harrowmont situation - how could I not see how much of a fool Cailan was, and how futile the battle at Ostagar was? I mean, he ordered the bulk of Ferelden's army and every Grey Warden in Ferelden to meet the Blight head-on right as the darkspawn began to reach the surface - knowing nothing about the darkspawn's numbers or what they would even be like in battle.

All the while, he didn't even have a back-up plan in case the worst should happen (and neither did Duncan, for that matter). The whole thing seems completely foolhardy in retrospect - no wonder Loghain was so frustrated every time you saw him at Ostagar.

I do love how this game fakes you out like that - it paints most situations to seem crystal clear on the surface. But just like in real life, that's almost never the case - nothing is ever as simple as it seems.

Well done, Bioware. B)

Modifié par greengoron89, 26 août 2011 - 01:29 .