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[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

greengoron89 wrote...

You know, similar to the Bhelen/Harrowmont situation - how could I not see how much of a fool Cailan was, and how futile the battle at Ostagar was? I mean, he ordered the bulk of Ferelden's army and every Grey Warden in Ferelden to meet the Blight head-on right as the darkspawn began to reach the surface - knowing nothing about the darkspawn's numbers or what they would even be like in battle.

All the while, he didn't even have a back-up plan in case the worst should happen (and neither did Duncan, for that matter). The whole thing seems completely foolhardy in retrospect - no wonder Loghain was so frustrated every time you saw him at Ostagar.

I do love how this game fakes you out like that - it paints most situations to seem crystal clear on the surface. But just like in real life, that's almost never the case - nothing is ever as simple as it seems.

Well done, Bioware.

In my first playthrough, I didn't notice alot of these things either. Mainl;y, because I was used to playing D&D games, where everything was automatically black and white. As much as Cailan was an idiot, I assumed he was the "good, glorious king of awesomeness" and what not, whose idocy gets a free pass because he's so golden a "good.

The actual level of Cailan's stupidity, however, was really driven home for me in Return to Ostagar. From that point on, my biggest condemnation of Loghain was that he didn't have the fool assasinated before ostagar even took place. Even if Loghain didn't know Cailan's plans specifically, he was still an idiot in so many other ways.

Even in my first playthrough of DAO, Cailan reminded me of Ned Flanders from the Simpsons.

[KnightofPhoenix]

When I first saw Cailan, I was like "Oh great. And here I thought this game was trying to be serious." Thankfully he died soon after and didn't ruin my fun.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Speaking of Cailan, anyone who played DA2and goes into the Black Emporium in Act 2, will notice there's a clickable object called "Velvet Cailan". Which is an obvious poke at the Velvet Elvises that have graced the fireplace mantles of rednecks across America for the last 40 years. But the Codex states that Cailan had a bunch of velvet paintings of himself commisioned and sold to fund the expansion of his marbari war dog kennels.

Even though that painting is supposed to be a bit of a joke about Velvet Elvises, it actually fits and describes Cailan's persona quite nicely. He is the type who would have a bunch of velvet painting of himself commisioneds and sold not only to fund his doggy hobby, but to feed is childish vanity as well.

[Persephone]

*Psssssssssst*

Don't look now but....

www.fanfiction.net/s/6087280/23/ Chapter 23 of "The Edge Of The Grey Enigma" may be perused here. Reviewers get cookies, sugar and stuff.

And there is smut in there....just for you, KOP!!

[KnightofPhoenix]

Interrupted smut is my least favorite kind of smut...

And I have to say, I was annoyed when Anora kissed *spoilers*. It would seem I still like Anora that much.

[Persephone]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Interrupted smut is my least favorite kind of smut...

And I have to say, I was annoyed when Anora kissed *spoilers*. It would seem I still like Anora that much.

Trust me, KOP, she did not do that based on any romantic notion. *Wink*

And why would you not like Anora?

[KnightofPhoenix]

I always liked her, but I didn't think I liked her as much as to experience slight fictional jealousy.

[Mike3207]

DA2 seems to indicate Anora has a considerable jealous streak. The King Alistair cameo makes it clear he wants to avoid Anora finding out his Warden mistress has returned. I always found it interesting that there is no discussion of infidelity with the Warden marriage, while Anora wants to be told if Alistair has a mistress on that path. It always makes me feel there's a better marriage with the Cousland marriage.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Simon Templeman as Dr. Doom LOL

[Costin_Razvan]

I'm ashamed to admit that I even watched that series a lot and never realized who Loghain was voiced by lol.

[CalJones]

Ha! It's the Caladrius voice.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

<<<Uses dark, forbidden magic to ressurect Loghain from 8 day death.

Have a classic Loggy moment from ostagar. :wub:



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[Costin_Razvan]

I think it's more epic to hear him shouting FOR FERELDAN! While saying the Archdemon

[KnightofPhoenix]

Been busy playing Deus Ex lately. Great game. Not being that active here.
In part because I am busy. In part because I am realizing more and more that Bioware is becoming obsolete for me, and that the illusion of them holding monopoly on storytelling is just that, an illusion. And if recent examples are to be taken into consideration, I would say it's falling sharply in terms of quality of writing. There are others who are doing a much better job in my perspective, and are more deserving of my attention, time and money.

Were it not for the community that I've come to consider my internet family, I would most likely not be here.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 08 septembre 2011 - 02:42 .

[Costin_Razvan]

I would like to think there's still interesting discussions to be had here ( for example the recent thread about destroying Earth in ME3 ), but trully they are not so interesting when Bioware would never dream of adding such depth to a choice like that, hell even adding the choice would be taking it too far for them.

From my perspective Bioware has had serious competition in terms of story for quite a while ( KOTOR 2, AP, Witcher 1 ) but always came out on top due to their gameplay that while not awesome was still decent enough and not buggy or massively imbalanced ( compared to those other games, yes even the famed Witcher 1 ). Even ME1 had a really well structured and told story.

Problem is that they sought in DA:O to make a story that they were NOT suited to making. Whoever designed the original DA:O story ( with Alistair not being a fool and Cailan as well probably ) was probably good at what he was doing, thing is Gaider couldn't comprehend that and changed it to something completely **** at least in terms of politics and world wide events. In DA:A they went back to the small scale that they are very good at but botched up badly in DA2.

This is the reason why I feel ME2 is better then DA:O in terms of story, through I would agree it's much lighter then what DA:O offers us, even with the failures of DA2 and DA:O and the somewhat failure of ME2 Bioware still had gameplay unmatched on the Singleplayer RPG market...except Diablo, but eh.

Then came the Witcher 2 out, and it must be stressed out that yes the Witcher 2 did have action gameplay, however unlike ME2 ( which really was a ****** poor copy of Gears of War at the end ) or DA2 ( which was trying so hard to copy WoW ) The Witcher 2 was INSPIRED ( not copied or ripped off ) from games like Batman: Arkam Asylum, Demons Souls and Assassins Creed and it did it's gameplay very very very well as well as providing an extremly solid story.

It is at that point when people started turning from Bioware and Deus Ex is another nail in the coffin. Those 2 nails are not enough to seal it and Bioware will still creep out, but get a dozen or so games like TW2 and DX: HR and Bioware will either change or it will be sealed inside.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 08 septembre 2011 - 03:35 .

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

greengoron89 wrote...

I need to get back to my current playthrough soon. I've been sidetracked for about a week playing the new Mortal Kombat, and I still owe Loghain an Archdemon (and Morrigan a much needed refusal).

Right now, I'm at the start of Nature of the Beast. I want to get that over with ASAP so I can go to Orzammar (my favorite part of the entire game).

It will actually be quite exciting after the Landsmeet is done and over with - I've never had Loghain in my party (short of getting the Recruiter achievement) and missed out on all the chats with him. I'm looking forward to hearing what he has to say.

You will be very pleased, I think, when you get Loghain and can chat with him. And make sure to hold off on Return to ostagar until you recruit him, and make sure you take Wynne, too. Amongst my top favorite dialogues in the game. Wynne gets pwned.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

I would like to think there's still interesting discussions to be had here ( for example the recent thread about destroying Earth in ME3 ), but trully they are not so interesting when Bioware would never dream of adding such depth to a choice like that, hell even adding the choice would be taking it too far for them.

Yes, there still are interesting discussions to be had, and things to be speculated on, for now. Though I've pretty much ignored the ME3 forums. Destroying Earth would be an interesting option to have, but sadly, I think major choices like that are a thing of the past, for Bioware at least.

[KnightofPhoenix]

With regards to DA? My interest is at a all time low and barely existent. Other than Morrigan / OGB, I am pretty much indifferent to everything else right now. Could change in the future, who knows.

[Wulfram]

greengoron89 wrote...

You know, similar to the Bhelen/Harrowmont situation - how could I not see how much of a fool Cailan was, and how futile the battle at Ostagar was? I mean, he ordered the bulk of Ferelden's army and every Grey Warden in Ferelden to meet the Blight head-on right as the darkspawn began to reach the surface - knowing nothing about the darkspawn's numbers or what they would even be like in battle.

So you favour abandoning the bulk of Fereldan to the Darkspawn and allowing them to grow in numbers unhindered?

All the while, he didn't even have a back-up plan in case the worst should happen (and neither did Duncan, for that matter). The whole thing seems completely foolhardy in retrospect - no wonder Loghain was so frustrated every time you saw him at Ostagar.

Loghain plans the battle.  If a plan of retreat was neglected, the fault lies at his door.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

I still see enough potential and hope for the future in DA, that I have not lost complete interest. Time will tell if this is to change. But I think if Bioware has paid attention to the most frequent complaints and the things that made other RPGs around it successes, then DA3 should be good.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

I still see enough potential and hope for the future in DA, that I have not lost complete interest. Time will tell if this is to change. But I think if Bioware has paid attention to the most frequent complaints and the things that made other RPGs around it successes, then DA3 should be good.

I don't think they will, and if they do, they are more likely to overreact and overkill.

I mean Laidlaw said that they are not going to do the 3 act thing again, perhaps not realizing that the fault was not in the structure, but in the content. If the extent of what they are willing to learn and do is scrap things over and over, then I don't think they are going to achieve much.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 08 septembre 2011 - 09:50 .

[Addai]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

I still see enough potential and hope for the future in DA, that I have not lost complete interest. Time will tell if this is to change. But I think if Bioware has paid attention to the most frequent complaints and the things that made other RPGs around it successes, then DA3 should be good.

Yeah I'm running on fumes.  If it weren't for talking to people I like, I'd never be on BSN.  Though it's kind of sad that here and on Twitter, the DA people I like- we have nothing left to talk about except the usual chatty type things.  Oh well.

I read an interesting article on the effect of video games on the brain and particularly older brains.  The Navy ran tests and found that playing video games increased "brain plasticity."  Sounds like a good excuse to me.    Unfortunately I'm sort of bereft of anything to play right now.  Waiting for FNV Lonesome Road to come out.  I would like to play Deus Ex HR, but not sold on it yet, at least at full price.

[Mike3207]

Hope for the best, prepare for the worst. I've beat DA2 once and probably won't visit it again. I'd like to believe DA3 will be more Origins than DA2, but I expect it will probably be more like DA2. I'm currently enjoying Oblivion and expect my next game purchase to be Skyrim. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of Origins fans move on to other games if Bioware doesn't change much from DA2.