12857 réponses à ce sujet

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

greengoron89 wrote...


Unfortunately, I'd already done RtO much earlier in the campaign (I really needed a decent armor and weapon set for my other warrior). I did watch a video of someone taking them through Ostagar, however - it was a pleasure to see.

If I'm planning on sparing him, I always save RTO until after I get Loghain. Its some serious bonding time. :wub::wub:

[Giggles_Manically]

Loghain in RtO and in Warden's Keep is win.
I love how he openly mocks Maric in many ways, but also carries so much respect for his old friend.

[billy the squid]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Yes and it is that agreement that I think could very well end up impeding progress.
And in Deus Ex, of course they backstab each other, Tai Yong Medical being the prime example. That is also a risk. That their competition ends up being focused more on backstabbing than actual rise of quality in product. With the decline of states and the rise of PMCs, competition between oligopolies could become much more violent.

I agree that monopolies are dangerous unless controlled by an actual visionary (in fact, the lack of competition might encourage the monopoly to take mucch more risks). But imo, oligopolies could be as dangerous.

Of course states are not immune of that problem either.

I think the Illuminati (power behind the throne kind of organization), is immune to a lot of these weaknesses, but is of course mired with problems of its own. Hence me saying that all endings in Deus Ex are far from being optimal.

I agree that Deus Ex' endings have no utopian or even optimal outcome, I think that plays to the strengths of the game's setting with no ending leading to a certain future, which is why I could have chosen Sarif or the Illuminati, for me the decsion between the two was very close.

I've been recently replaying Deus Ex for a short while and I may have missed some details, but is the decline of the nation state as an entity across the board, or does it seem to be restricted to the US and specific corporations and sectors? One of the Ebooks stated that the Canadian Government used military force to blockade the boarder between British Colombia and Montreal, so it implies that the Canadian Governemt still retains considerable power in its ability to increasingly militarise the boarder between the US and Canada.

It makes me wonder, if the nation state is not so much in decline but challenged by the rise of a small number of multinational corporations. As such would the subsequent ending, siding with Sarif, mean that corporations supplant nation states completely? The narration states that further advances can be made when shaping human evolution and legislative freedom to do so, but it makes no mention of corporations dominating or supplanting Governments as elected or dictatorial legislative bodies.

If corporations and the PMCs grow, would they still be able to combat the militaries of the nation states? Sarif industries seems to be involved with military contracts so at least a sizable portion of augmentation corporations revenue may come from sovereign governments. It is possible that the corporations such as Tai Yong and Sarif secure their own corporate fiefdom, such as Hengsai, within the nation, but still remain subservient to the state, albeit with influence, but unable to challenge any one of the super powers or economic and political unions independently.

Hence Sarif's move to gain favour with the UN, would I think be more akin to achieving legislative freedom for augmentation rather than outright political dominance, as seen the nation states as geo political entities are still capable of blocking and controlling agendas, but less so than in our current time.
On the assumption that, the above is not completely inaccurate in its assessment then the power and role of the Illuminati becomes far greater, than initially anticipated if it holds enough influence to sway nation states, who as explained above, are not completely on the decline, through media manipulation, popular agitation, machiavelian political maneuvers and violence when the need arises.

As to the methodology of the Illuminati's control, I actually agree with much of it and the reasoning behind it, even the kill switch, as direct confrontation with augmentation corporations and nation states would be nigh on impossible, despite their power. As malignant as the Illuminati might seem, they seem to be the only way to combat uncontrolled technological evolution, when the individual in such a situation is rendered impotent.

"All of us who are concerned for peace and triumph of reason and justice must be keenly aware how small an influence reason and honest good will exert upon events in the political field."

Although Sarif himself does not worry me so much, other corporations do,  his move to remove Nerozyne dependancy from augments via experimentation on Jensen's genetic structure is actually laudible, despite the dubious ethical and moral outcomes of such research, for me at least, the ends justify the means. It does however, imply that the Illuminati consider anything moving beyond their control as a threat, but whether it is to their power or to humanity via the erosion of the Illuminati's ability to regulate human advancement, I am unsure.

Modifié par billy the squid, 14 septembre 2011 - 09:09 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Oh I agree that it doesn't seem like corporations completely supplanted states. But even in DX:HR, we see corporations with a lot of influence. We know that Sarif has contacts in the police department and funds them IIRC. We've seen Tai Long controlling Belltower, which itself pretty much controls Lower Hengsha. The UN is influential, but it could be because it's becoming a sovereign body on its own, I think it does become that by DX1. By DX1 though, from what I read and understand, nation states are in decline if not extinct. I think China is the only real state left.

I should re-read the ebooks and place them chronologically, because otherwise it might look inconsistent. Because one ebook stated that borders on the map are pretty much just that, and that belonging to a corporation has supplanted citizenship as an identity, which needless to say is a huge blow for states (indeed, identity being merged with a state, to one degree or another, is a pillar for the modern state system).

Corporations are on the rise, whether that means that states are in decline perse is a matter of semantics. What we can say is that their *relative* power is in decline.

I don't have a problem with Sarif personally, I rather like him. And I 100% support his bid to eliminate the need for Nerozyne. What he is doing is risky and progressive in a lot of ways and he is butting heads with a lot of people with this. This is one thing where I can say that Sarif was being genuinely progressive (though I do not think consideration for profits and increasing market share are out of the equation). But it's the idea of oligopolies becoming powers in their own right, challenging if not supplanting states, and having a big say on humanity's future and of its very essence, that unsettles me.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 15 septembre 2011 - 12:00 .

[Aeowyn]

I dislike the idea of corporations having more power than governments, but judging from the e-books, if it wasn't for Sarif Industries, Detroit would've gone to hell.

[KnightofPhoenix]

The US in general seems to be going to hell, based on what I read. Of course I am not suggesting that corporations are the source of all evil.

That being said, judging from the game, Detroit is on the verge of collapse anyways despite (or perhaps because of) Sarif's efforts.

[Aeowyn]

There is an interesting conversation you can listen in to. It's between Jensen's landlady and her friend. Jensen's landlady is going on about how Sarif has ruined everything and they should just chase him away from the city and close his company and her friend says "But everyone in Detroid knows at least one person who works for Sarif. What would happen to them if they all lost their jobs?" or something similar.

Edit: And the US is eventually almost collapsing before Deus Ex plays out. The Illuminati decides not to help the country because they want it to collapse so they can have a better chance of proposing the New World Order. But then the US does get back on its feet and basically the result of that is why Bob Page started the Majestic 12. 

Modifié par Aeowyn, 15 septembre 2011 - 05:08 .

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

That being said, judging from the game, Detroit is on the verge of collapse anyways despite (or perhaps because of) Sarif's efforts.

Detroit is on the verge of collapse in the real world, and has been for some time now, sadly. It's been that way since the 80's, and has been in pretty steady decline since. And given the big three car companies keep coking, I see this trend increasing.

I remember reading not to long ago that over half of downtown detroit's commercial and office space is vacant. This in a city that was one of only 6 that broke the over a million population mark within the US, now I think it has actually dipped below a million.

So trust me, if detroit is on the verge of collapse in the game, it's nothing new, lol.

[Costin_Razvan]

Ahem, I think it should be said better: If the US as a whole is slowly collapsing, then that's nothing new.

Which is really what's happening in Deus Ex.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Aeowyn wrote..
Edit: And the US is eventually almost collapsing before Deus Ex plays out. The Illuminati decides not to help the country because they want it to collapse so they can have a better chance of proposing the New World Order. But then the US does get back on its feet and basically the result of that is why Bob Page started the Majestic 12. 

Oh I see, interesting. Well I read and DX:HR certainly hinted at it, that Bob Page is going to imprison 6 million Americans, for I don't know what.

I am not sure if I should play the original, or read its plot in its entirety.

[Persephone]

*Biting her nails as she waits for her gaming pc to be shipped to Ireland...my copy of Deus Ex is mocking me*

Get here PC, Perse wants to play!!:O:O

[Addai]

I'm actually giving The Witcher 2 another try, since it's already bought and paid for. I still hate everything about the gameplay- combat, UI, level screen, etc.- but with patches and mods it seems to be bearable enough I can focus on the story.

[Costin_Razvan]

Addai67 wrote...

I'm actually giving The Witcher 2 another try, since it's already bought and paid for. I still hate everything about the gameplay- combat, UI, level screen, etc.- but with patches and mods it seems to be bearable enough I can focus on the story.

Patches didn't change much...well except make the prologue a cake ( but then again it was a cake if you had played the game before ).

What mods you using?

P.S. Knight you wanna start betting on what choices she will make?

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 16 septembre 2011 - 08:08 .

[Addai]

I just went down through the top rated ones on the Nexus. Better Combat, something that allows you to sort inventory, equipment overhaul etc. It still has the jerkiness I hate, and Geralt leaping at targets I never intended to attack, the ugly UI and those damned QTEs, but I just try to forget all that. So far it's working.

I won't be finishing anytime soon, though- I'm in more of a reading mood these days, and will probably play the FNV DLC that comes out next week. Oh and I have this little fanfiction story I've been trying to finish.

[Costin_Razvan]

QTEs can be disabled, and there are very few of them to begin with.

As for Better Combat, hmmph. Clearly that the creator of that NEVER played on Insane! I think I would sooner die to a rotfiend every time I get into Act 2 while playing on Insane then trying that out. The rest are OK I guess ( the equipment we have in the game is alright )

I am not sure what you mean by Jerkiness though, and as for Geralt leaping at targets...well you can lock on targets with alt and the auto select will change depending on your camera angle ( even the slightest movement can change your target ) it has it's drawbacks, but also can be used to your advantage.

And when is your FF going to be updated?

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 16 septembre 2011 - 08:55 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

P.S. Knight you wanna start betting on what choices she will make?

Iorveth, I am 99% sure.

The rest, I haven't given much thought to.

[alschemid]

Addai67 wrote...
Oh and I have this little fanfiction story I've been trying to finish.

Yay... I am so glad you remember that! 

[Addai]

Costin_Razvan wrote...
I am not sure what you mean by Jerkiness though, and as for Geralt leaping at targets...well you can lock on targets with alt and the auto select will change depending on your camera angle ( even the slightest movement can change your target ) it has it's drawbacks, but also can be used to your advantage.

And when is your FF going to be updated?

The camera is jerky, and there's jerkiness in Geralt's movements at times.  Like climbing things, there's this annoying little lag while you wait for Geralt to react.

Locking on a target is fine if you've got a long battle, but if you're fighting a mob- who's going to do that?

I hope to update this weekend.  I actually wrote a bit in Germany (thanks to spraining my ankle), but I got stuck and have had to do some rewrites.

Edit: Oh, and I'd say there's a good bet I will side with Iorveth.  I imported my TW1 save, so this is a pro-Scoiatel Geralt.  And I'm going to find it hard to side with Ser Jory. 

Modifié par Addai67, 16 septembre 2011 - 11:16 .

[Costin_Razvan]

The camera is jerky, and there's jerkiness in Geralt's movements at times. Like climbing things, there's this annoying little lag while you wait for Geralt to react.

Ah that. Game has HORRIBLE mouse acceleration, so if you experience that you might want to lower your video options somewhat. Hope to see your next chapter soon.

Edit: Oh, and I'd say there's a good bet I will side with Iorveth. I imported my TW1 save, so this is a pro-Scoiatel Geralt. And I'm going to find it hard to side with Ser Jory.

Not sure why a lot of Pro-Squirrels players think they should side with Iorveth. I personally sided with Siegfried as you know and although I picked Roche is wasn't because I was biased against them because of Yaevinn, but rather because:

1) I don't work with terrorists and Iorveth did little to change my opinion of him.
2) Iorveth helped murder Foltest and to a lighter degree tried to kill Geralt.

However it is the kind of game where you must play it twice to fully appreciate it, there is a big choice with a lot consequence behind it. Oddly enough I grew to like Iorveth a lot while pursuing his path, which was surprising to me since I really, really, really hate idealists. Though that's something that is applied to blind, idiotic and naive ones and Iorveth is most definitively NOT one of those. He is a rutheless, pragmatic and realistic idealist.

Seriously Geralt asks him: "You think we can win this battle."

Iorveth: "No."

Myself/Geralt: WHAT?

And please don't remind me of Ser Jory thing....it's abominable to even start comparing Roche to that idiot.

Oh and don't read the next part if you don't want massive spoilers.

Knight: I agree. Iorveth, killed Stennis, saved Triss, spared the Dragon, Killed Letho.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 16 septembre 2011 - 11:30 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Iorveth is an awesome character and I greatly enjoyed his path. I prefer him over Yaevinn, though I like the latter too.

So you can't really go "wrong" with any of these choices imo, both paths are greatly enjoyable. though Roche's is more gritty and dark, while Iorveth's leans more towards romanticism, but without losing too much maturity and grittiness in the process.

[testing123]

Glad to see this thread is still going strong with most of the regulars from way back. I thought I would pop back in out of curiosity to see what this board looked like so long after release. Anyway, I suppose I should add something to the conversation.

I never finished DA2. DAO is probably my favorite game of all time, so naturally DA2 was a huge let down for me. I didn't like the enemies appearing out of thin air. I didn't like the 'quests' that involved dumping a piece of junk on a random npc for a bit of copper. I didn't like the reused environments. So I quit.

But obviously I'm still a pretty big fan of the world and I feel like I'm missing out on a lot of that story by abandoning DA2. My question is, do you guys think the story is strong enough in DA2 for me to trudge through a bunch of mechanics I don't enjoy? Are you optimistic for a DA3 or do you think the series is trending down? If this series is only going to continue to drift away from what I enjoyed so much about the first one I feel it would be best to just let it go now. But if you guys think that there is hope for salvaging an interesting property and DA2 was just a small misstep in the grand scheme of things, I don't mind slogging through if only to try to enjoy the story and finally give the game a more complete and fair critique.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Welcome back.

jvee wrote...
 My question is, do you guys think the story is strong enough in DA2 for me to trudge through a bunch of mechanics I don't enjoy? Are you optimistic for a DA3 or do you think the series is trending down?

Imo no. The story was the worst part of it in my eyes. The supposedly main plot of the game, the conflict between mages and Templars, was an utter debacle.
And in part due to this, my interest in the DA franchise in its entirey and Bioware in general is at an all time low and getting very close to complete indifference. So no, I personally am not optimistic.

But since there are much better alternatives in my eyes, I don't care that much anymore anyways.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 17 septembre 2011 - 03:53 .

[Addai]

jvee, I kind of wish I had never played DA2. It's affecting my view of the franchise and not in a good way. Take that for what it's worth. I don't think it's worth finishing, but there are people who like it. I just... can't comprehend that.

Anyway. Costin, I only sort of skimmed your reply because I'm avoiding too many spoilers. I just guessed Iorveth was a Scoia'tel rep, and since I'm roleplaying Geralt as pro-squirrel, I figured I'd end up supporting him. But of course I'll do whatever I feel appropriate to this game. The writing is really good in the game, but I never doubted that.

If you guys are looking for light reading, I think you might like the author I've been reading a lot lately, Cecelia Holland. In Germany I read a book of hers called Great Maria that I really loved. It reminded me of The Arrangement in some ways. I wrote a review here. I think she writes political and military strategy very well, and whatever smut her stuff has is usually brief and to the point. I don't usually like historical fiction, but hers I do- and she's inspired me to maybe try my hand at that, too.

Modifié par Addai67, 17 septembre 2011 - 04:15 .

[Zjarcal]

jvee wrote...

I never finished DA2. DAO is probably my favorite game of all time, so naturally DA2 was a huge let down for me. 

Heh, you say that as if loving DAO automatically means that you must hate DA2.

Anyway, I love DA2 (despite this being hard to comprehend for some people apparently) but I'm sure you won't, just by the fact that you're actually asking others if it's worth finishing when you already tried it yourself. So eh, it's probably best you don't bother.