12857 réponses à ce sujet

[Bleachrude]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

@ Bleach.
As Costin said, it's the university and increased trade that I am talking about. And no, they show up irrespective of who the Warden is and if he married Anora or not. Anora's solo rule leads to the building of a unviersity, laws to encourage freeholders and increased trade.

That is infinitely more important to me and more visionary than the fate of elves.

*LOL*

Why am I not surprised that you dismiss the fate of elves and mages as unimportant...if I remember correctly, you consider the old Tevinter empire more of a good thing than a bad thing since slavery/oppression is a good thing since we see that the old Tevinters had more of a lasting impact than any nation since...

Personally, I'm more of a "better for the world to be "backwards/rural" than to be "advanced/urban" if the latter is at the cost of the subjugation of people...

[Costin_Razvan]

Personally, I'm more of a "better for the world to be "backwards/rural" than to be "advanced/urban" if the latter is at the cost of the subjugation of people...

Tell that to British and Roman Empires. A nation needs to be strong before it can even begin thinking of improving the lives of the people under it, not before since it just won't work.

I don't opose Alistair's measures mind you, I just don't think he has the political mind to implement them properly and if he doesn't then they will disapear once the country falls into civil war on his death. ( Since Gaider confirmed he won't have an heir regardless of the match ).

Between his decision and Anora's I would think it would be Anora's who would have a lasting impact after a civil war. ( The University will still remain, especially if she can get Chantry funding for it ) Of course Anora also won't have an heir.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 04 octobre 2011 - 12:41 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

I didn't slavery is a good thing. I say, that great civilizations are built on the back of others (you are living in one now I presume). And so be it, I wouldn't have the world any other way.

Yes, I consider the Tevinter Imperium, based on what I know so far, to be a great civilization. Not without its problems, but it looks greater than what Thedas has to offer now.

Mages are not unimportant because unlike elves, they are a much more valuable resource. Anora does agree with the boon as well and there is no indication that she does not do what DA2 said Alistair is doing.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 04 octobre 2011 - 12:34 .

[Bleachrude]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Personally, I'm more of a "better for the world to be "backwards/rural" than to be "advanced/urban" if the latter is at the cost of the subjugation of people...

Tell that to British and Roman Empires. A nation needs to be strong before it can even begin thinking of improving the lives of the people under it, not before since it just won't work.

Um, you're assuming I agree with the Roman and British empires? I honestly don't see "backwards/rural" as inherently a "bad thing" as people seem to think...it's a choice

As for the mages, again why would Anora stick her neck out for mages since there's no indication that Anora did so PRIOR to the Blight either...she, unless you go the mage warden route, has practically no interaction with the circle/chantry.

As well, where are you guys getting the information that Anora creates a University? I know Celene's entry has this but where does it state that Anora does as well?

[ejoslin]

It states it in her epilogue cards. I'll get the exact text for you in a minute.

Edit: Trigger for this slide is Anora is solo queen or married to the warden.

In the months that followed her coronation, Anora proved herself an adept ruler. Trade agreements with other lands quickly brought new funds into the royal coffers, and with them, the queen saw the capital rebuilt. The army was restored, laws were passed to encourage freeholders to produce sufficient harvests, and plans were conceived for a university.

Modifié par ejoslin, 04 octobre 2011 - 12:42 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Bleachrude wrote...

Um, you're assuming I agree with the Roman and British empires? I honestly don't see "backwards/rural" as inherently a "bad thing" as people seem to think...it's a choice

And those who choose backwater and rural usually get devoured by the clearly stronger civilization.
There is nothing inherently bad. Strength and weakness however are independent of such concerns.

As well, where are you guys getting the information that Anora creates a University? I know Celene's entry has this but where does it state that Anora does as well?

Epilogue.

Thanks Ejolsin.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 04 octobre 2011 - 12:43 .

[Costin_Razvan]

Um, you're assuming I agree with the Roman and British empires? I honestly don't see "backwards/rural" as inherently a "bad thing" as people seem to think...it's a choice

Neither do I or Knight see it as this. You fail to grasp our point which is that we do not see Alistair as being capable of implementing them in a such way so they would work.

Ignoring the Epilogue slides, what makes people think Alistair can make a good king? Sure he can rule with stability given his blood, but is there anything in the ****ing game that indicate he is a good ruler? I mean I only played the thing 6 times and never saw it and I always befriended Alistair, if anything he is quire reluctant to take the throne, only wanting it if he is hardened and only then because he dislikes Anora, seriously?

With Anora she is mentioned by Eamon himself to be a good administrator, ofc Eamon doesn't want her on the throne since he wants his puppet Alistair there and she is considered a good leader by the nobility, otherwise her little speech at the landsmeet wouldn't be worth ****.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 04 octobre 2011 - 12:46 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Costin_Razvan wrote...


Ignoring the Epilogue slides, what makes people think Alistair can make a good king? Sure he can rule with stability given his blood, but is there anything in the ****ing game that indicate he is a good ruler? .

I think Xandurpein got it right, more or less. Anora is more likely to attract those leaning towards political science and history, while Alistair is more likely to attract those with romantic tendencies and preconceptions.

I've seen few exceptions, Addai being one.

[Costin_Razvan]

Addai also studied politics and history...whether we agree with her viewpoints or not on those subjects.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Hence her being an exception, based on my experience here.

[Bleachrude]

Again, I must admit I'm not seeing how Anora would be on the side of those with "history" since her history in the game indicates NOTHING until the epilogue slides about being "visionary"...

I don't see her as visionary since really, 5 years, she didn't DO anything other than being remarked as a good administrator and I don't see Anora as being a non-traditionalist...

Keep in mind that Anora only got the throne in the first place BECAUSE of the traditionalists, Eamon and Anora would've been allies at first I think since when the bannorn was considering Bryce C., it was probably both Eamon and Anora politically (I think we can all agree that Loghain and Cailan probably have no political skills to help there...) that worked the hardest to convince the bannorn to support Anora.

The only reason Eamon opposes Anora is because he has a VALID concern about the succession (and as so-called fans of political science/history - this should be a freaking HUGE concern - pretty much EVERY war in the era that Ferelden mimics can be traced to answering "the succession" question.

Indeed, notice that in RtO, Eamon highlights how politically the joining of Mac Tir and Theirin would be one of the greatest things for Ferelden so yes, Eamon was probably one oft he biggest cheerleaders for the marriage of Cailan and Anora.

Eamon is a guerrin though and from reading TST, it wasn't because of Mac Tir that the guerrins opposed the Orlesians, but because of Moira Theirin so he's not as in awe of the Mac Tirs as others.

As an aside, I also wonder if Loghain assumed WRONGLY that Anora would support him in his fight with Cailan over Orlais...as I remember it, even Anora thought it was prudent to bring in the Orlesians...

With regard to the nobility, actually Alistair pretty much can ignore the nobility ironically IMO. He has the broad support of the commoners and depending on your choices frankly should have stronger contacts among the chantry (a.k.a "Hey I helped find the sacred ashes of Andraste), dwarves and elves.

As an aside, I always thought the social implications of finding the Urn was underplayed...Finding the urn pretty much should make the chantry back off given that it's hard to argue that alistair/or the mage warden are enemies of the maker if they find the asjes oft he bride of the maker...

[KnightofPhoenix]

Succession is indeed a valid concern, and I never vilify Eamon personally, I understand him.
However, there were not sufficient evidence if any that Anora was barren (could have been Cailan). Also, Alistair as a Warden has a high chance of being sterile (which he is as Gaider confirmed. Ferelden will not get an heir).

It's a less than ideal situation, where both lines risk to be extinct and most likely will. In such a context, yea, I'd go with Anora. She is more likely to create institutions that have a chance, however remote, to survive her death.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 04 octobre 2011 - 01:46 .

[Costin_Razvan]

I don't see her as visionary since really, 5 years, she didn't DO anything other than being remarked as a good administrator and I don't see Anora as being a non-traditionalist...

What does traditionalist mean anyway? That she keeps the current model of ruling intact in Fereldan? Yes true.

She also was just a consort, not the ruler, that fit Cailan's role and as much a fool as Cailan was do you really expect me to believe Anora could as she wished with him on the throne? Really?

The only reason Eamon opposes Anora is because he has a VALID concern about the succession (and as so-called fans of political science/history - this should be a freaking HUGE concern - pretty much EVERY war in the era that Ferelden mimics can be traced to answering "the succession" question.

You honestly buy his bull****? Eamon wants to have as much power closer to the crown as possible, this can be done with Alistair on throne but not Anora.

Eamon was also the one to suggest to Cailan to renounce Anora and I very much doubt he was for the marriage.

As for succession, it IS a valid concern, but since the heir still needs to be elected by the Landsmeet and since Alistair is a Grey Warden how does placing him on the throne guarantee an heir?!

Besides which Anora can nominate someone who is not of her blood to take the throne. If she pulled enough political strings, and for Christ's sake she has a large number of supporters already, then her appointed successor has a stronger chance of taking the throne then the one Alistair would theoretically have, since Alistair is politically inept.

With regard to the nobility, actually Alistair pretty much can ignore the nobility ironically IMO. He has the broad support of the commoners and depending on your choices frankly should have stronger contacts among the chantry (a.k.a "Hey I helped find the sacred ashes of Andraste), dwarves and elves.

And Anora, the COMMONER ( yes commoner, since BOTH her parents where born as such, check the wiki for her mother ) wouldn't have broad popular support from the commoners?! SERIOUSLY?

And ignoring the nobility? What the hell? Yeah sure go do that and ignore the people who have armies at their disposal, what the common people might think doesn't matter squat, when their Bann calls them to arms you bet your arse they will answer.

This was the mistake Loghain did, he thought he could just brush aside the nobility, well think again.

As for Dwarves and Elves, uhm how? The Warden is the one making all the shots, not Alistair who is just there. Anora does give the Dalish lands and can also send armies in Orzammar ( provided your Warden is a dwarf ) if you ask or die during the Archdemon fight.

Knight: Damned shame the Mac Tir line will disapear. "Sighs" Gaider and his ****ing way of making a choice meaningless.

Thankfully I have something far more interesting to do then care about Bioware atm.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 04 octobre 2011 - 01:57 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Yea, and I'd much rather follow Radovid's career, than either Alistair or Anora.

[Costin_Razvan]

Or Emhyr.

CD Projekt wasn't ****ing around when they said most of their developers are hardcore. SEVEN Gargoyles and 3 GOLEMS at the same ****ing time? ( the pic above with 3 Golems was that fight after I head deals with the Gargoyles ) Or a Draug and 4 Draugir, that's freaking madness.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 04 octobre 2011 - 02:26 .

[Mike3207]

It's been mentioned several times there won't be a royal heir-where is this referenced? The only thing I see on the subject is that Gaider said it was impossible for 2 Wardens (without magical help) and there was a reduced chance with 1 Warden.

[Costin_Razvan]

Mike Smith wrote...

It's been mentioned several times there won't be a royal heir-where is this referenced? The only thing I see on the subject is that Gaider said it was impossible for 2 Wardens (without magical help) and there was a reduced chance with 1 Warden.

There was an interview where he said it at Gamescon.

[CalJones]

@Addai - bravo for creating an awesome bit of fanfics. I've always been a bit dubious of fanfic but The Arrangement kept me hooked. I'm almost sorry it's over but I'm sure you are relieved to get it done. Thanks for keeping us entertained.

[Joy Divison]

@bleachrule - we don't like slavery and oppression. We do, however, recognize much of what we take for granted in a modern industrial society where our main concern is buying a good enough videocard to play the latest game exists because "advanced/urban" societies oppressed people.

I, for one, am not a fan of living in a preindustrial "backwards/rural" society when famine was widespread and the average life expectancy was below 30.

RE: Anora, I'm not sure how you cannot see that she is a reformer. The epilogue slides say this unequivocally. It may be true that there is no evidence that she was not one before, but why does this matter? She was in no position to implement anything. Besides you don't think its possible the rebuilding of Ferelden prompted her to make these reforms? The point being she IS a reformer.

[Addai]

CalJones wrote...

@Addai - bravo for creating an awesome bit of fanfics. I've always been a bit dubious of fanfic but The Arrangement kept me hooked. I'm almost sorry it's over but I'm sure you are relieved to get it done. Thanks for keeping us entertained.

You're welcome.    There is a bit more to come in the epilogue.

[Addai]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Addai67 wrote...
Don't be ridiculous.  Of course it's a defeat.  I'm pointing out that you talk about "apple trees" as if it's a playground squabble over milk, when territory rights is what most wars have ever been fought about.  Of course no one cares about other people's disputes, if it's not their problem.

Territory rights and a few trees to add to an overglorified farm are different matters.

Where do you think trees grow?  lol  This is food we're talking about- and land.  These are not small issues.

Not talking about authoritarian regimes, but a centralized system.

I think the perennial difference we keep coming around to is that I see feudalism as nascent democracy.  The roots of European democracy are in the rights of land owners to check the king, and his limited right to call them to account.

[Addai]

Mike Smith wrote...

It's been mentioned several times there won't be a royal heir-where is this referenced? The only thing I see on the subject is that Gaider said it was impossible for 2 Wardens (without magical help) and there was a reduced chance with 1 Warden.

I suppose people are just assuming from the fact that Anora never re-marries if she is solo ruler, Alistair disappears if he is made king, and there are reduced chances with a Warden consort.  It's sort of a reset.

Modifié par Addai67, 04 octobre 2011 - 06:26 .

[Costin_Razvan]

I think the perennial difference we keep coming around to is that I see feudalism as nascent democracy. The roots of European democracy are in the rights of land owners to check the king, and his limited right to call them to account.

The roots of European democracy lie in Athens, with the impact of Greek Culture upon the Romans and then the impact of Rome on the rest of the world. The impacts of Greece and Rome survives to this day.

I however fail to see why democracy is such an awesome system by itself. It's a system, it's not good or bad just because it exists. It has it's flaws and good points.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 04 octobre 2011 - 07:03 .

[CalJones]

Costin, are those screens from a DLC?

[Costin_Razvan]

Free DLC, patch 2.0 Arena mode.