12857 réponses à ce sujet

[KnightofPhoenix]

@ Bleach
Yea, that's the biggest problem for that. It would probably require alternative tanks, mages...etc.

Addai67 wrote...

It works for a military/ mercenary commander. I hope we go back to having a military role in the next one. It's the only way it really makes sense.

We never played a military / merc commander. We were told we were one when we were not. Awakening was the closest thing to playing a military commander, and even that was extremily lacking.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 31 octobre 2011 - 03:33 .

[Addai]

Yes you were, essentially. What is the Warden group but a freelance merc band? People are signing on to your leadership for the sake of defeating the Blight.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Merc implies payment. We don't pay them. It was a freelance small group, closer to superhero gangs or power rangers, but that's about it.

The Warden was not given the opportunity to act like a commander, even when he / she was supposed to be one (we do have few instances of the Warden having some political say). That's Bioware's story / gameplay segregation.
I am supposed to feel that the Warden is a military commander, when something as basic as "how many troops do I have in my army" will remain an unsolved mystery.

But just to clarify, I'd rather play as the Warden than Shepard. I don't even need to mention Hawke.

Ultimately though, I'd rather play as Mike Thorton over all of them, combined.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 31 octobre 2011 - 04:39 .

[Brockololly]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I take issues with downplaying them to make mediocre protagonists look better. Indeed, we had Gaider himself say that their original version of Alistair was scrapped for this reason. Because he was apparently "too strong and independent" that it made the PC look bad.

Well I want independent and strong companions, who can also do their own thing without having to relying on the PC 24/7. I'd say Aveline fit the bill, but the game showed her as so incompetent and reliant on the killing machine Hawke that she doesn't count. Anders kind of was in Act 3, but that's about it.

Thats true, and I agree in that having more independent minded companions can be a good thing. Problem is like in DA2 where you have more "independent" companions only in certain moments which rob the player of any agency. Like helping/not helping Anders but having the same result no matter what. Its fine if they want Anders to do something big at the end of the game, but it completely rubs me the wrong way when the sort of "independent" moment for the NPC just happens no matter what.

Thats more or less just crummy writing and implementation by BioWare, but none of their recent games have been able to do any sort of meaningful branching.

I would just love companions who have character development like the characters in Alpha Protocol of TW2. Where they're fixed characters existing in the world no matter what, but depending on your choices/interactions/dialogue with them, you might not even meet them or you might not get the full picture on them. 

But you need companions so long as you're going to keep DA party based. It just depends on how well BioWare goes to integrate the gameplay/story rationale for having a party. I thought DAO did fine but DA2 the premise felt flimsy at best, since more often than not it felt contrived as to why anyone would be hanging around Hawke early on anyway, let alone years later.

I just think its fine to have more independent or strong willed companions, but then the writers need to give the PC the ability to be just as strong willed in turn and not handcuff the PC with rubbish dialogue choices/options.

[Addai]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Merc implies payment. We don't pay them. It was a freelance small group, closer to superhero gangs or power rangers, but that's about it. 

That's how I understand loot distribution, as payment.

I'm not sure how you can understand the Warden in any other way.  When Sten challenges you in Haven, for instance, he's challenging your leadership of your band.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Wolverine sometimes challenges Cyclops' leadership. Doesn't make the latter more commanderly. But maybe we mean different things when we say 'commander'. The warden was implemented as band leader, but I never felt playing as a commander other than through headcanon.

@ Brock
Oh protagonists are a whole other can of worms. The quality of Bioware ones is degrading quite sharply in my eyes.

[Persephone]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

@ Brock
Oh protagonists are a whole other can of worms. The quality of Bioware ones is degrading quite sharply in my eyes.

Yeah. Yeah.

And both Witcher games and AP reduce Bioware's protagonists to characters that make Marilyn Monroe's character in "Gentlemen prefer Blondes" look like an independent genius and all that.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Something like that yea. Though to be fair, Mike Thorton makes Geralt and Adam Jensen look like old buggers.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 31 octobre 2011 - 11:39 .

[Costin_Razvan]

 Well here is something you guys might enjoy reading: Cailan's brutal death after being poisoned by the Darkspawn.
Ah I loved it. http://www.fanfictio...tory_at_Ostagar

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 01 novembre 2011 - 12:19 .

[Zjarcal]

Brockololly wrote...

I would just love companions who have character development like the characters in Alpha Protocol of TW2. Where they're fixed characters existing in the world no matter what, but depending on your choices/interactions/dialogue with them, you might not even meet them or you might not get the full picture on them. 

Ignoring the might not meet them part, that's pretty much what goes in BW games if you ask me. It wasn't until I tried both the friendship and rivalry paths with some characters that I felt I truly understood them (Isabela being the best example, seeing how the rivalry path made me love her). Same in DAO with someone like Wynne, who I sort of liked in my first run but hated after playing a blood mage.

Both examples of not getting the full picture depending on choices/interactions/dialogue... 

Can't comment yet much on the character development of TW2 since I haven't finished it. It was looking real good for the likes of Iorveth and Letho. Not so much for Dandellion and Zoltan.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Zoltan being torn between trying to assimilate or resisting, while having a strong dislike towards the Scoai'Tael, finally finding a cause that combines both that allows him to get over his melancholy, was a good enough development imo. He at least is reacting to what is happening around him.

[Mike3207]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

 Well here is something you guys might enjoy reading: Cailan's brutal death after being poisoned by the Darkspawn.
Ah I loved it. http://www.fanfictio...tory_at_Ostagar

Arsinoe writes really good stories. I think her story The Keening Blade is one of the better Loghain stories out there.

[Costin_Razvan]

I think Victory at Ostagar is a lot better...Keening Blade just annoys me on a lot of levels.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Badass?



Badass.

I like Henselt. He is flawed and a bastard, but unlike Cailan, he is believable as a king and not over the top (or incredibly annoying).

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 02 novembre 2011 - 02:45 .

[Zjarcal]

I won't actually get to know Henselt on this run (since I sided with Iorveth), but he sure as hell was annoying to me on that little cutscene. Beyond annoying actually, f***cking infuriating.

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Zoltan being torn between trying to assimilate or resisting, while having a strong dislike towards the Scoai'Tael, finally finding a cause that combines both that allows him to get over his melancholy, was a good enough development imo. He at least is reacting to what is happening around him.

Well bear in mind I haven't finished yet (haven't played in three weeks so I'm also forgetting a few things maybe), which is why I said it wasn't looking so well, as opposed to him flatout not having good development. I'll see how it goes later. But so far the only thing I've seen is him hating the Scoia'tael. The melancholy part has been hardly touched. Hopefully I'll get to see more of that later.

[Costin_Razvan]

I won't actually get to know Henselt on this run (since I sided with Iorveth), but he sure as hell was annoying to me on that little cutscene. Beyond annoying actually, f***cking infuriating.

So what? He is trying to conquer Aedirn, he doesn't have to be nice to them quite the opposite in fact.

Not everyone has to be nice for them to be a good written character.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 02 novembre 2011 - 12:13 .

[Bayz]

Addai67 wrote...

That's how I understand loot distribution, as payment.

I'm not sure how you can understand the Warden in any other way.  When Sten challenges you in Haven, for instance, he's challenging your leadership of your band.

For mercenary bands, loot distribution and payment were two different animals. They expected payment  regardless of the loot. Professional Armies were the ones not getting loot except if they were not paid.

Sten and the qunari have a <understatement> limited <\\understatement> knoledge of how the Grey Wardens, the Blight and anything regarding people from non Qun lands in general. He challenged the Warden Commander for leadership, but if he had it the blight would probably be reaching Par Vollen by the end of Dragon Age 3.

They are not mercenaries, they (supposedly) can't take a side in any conflict or do anything different from fighting the Darkspawn as a whole. The organization is a highly specialised corps of Darkspawn hunters, not swords for hire.

That your character was forced into getting their hands into **** is different. The Grey Wardens as a whole would not endorse it, but maybe see it as necessary to stop the bickering and have the nobles\\dwarves\\elves\\golems\\whatever stop ****ing with each other and pay attention to the Blight.

Quite different from a sellsword IMO

[KnightofPhoenix]

Zjarcal wrote...

I won't actually get to know Henselt on this run (since I sided with Iorveth), but he sure as hell was annoying to me on that little cutscene. Beyond annoying actually, f***cking infuriating.

Because he is rude?
I'd say half of it is bluffing. He shows contempt and arrogance when Saskia comes, as psychological warfare. Because on Roche's path, when Henselt and company are en route to the negotiation tent, Dethmold was saying that Upper Aedirn is weak, Henselt disagreed and said he felt that the land was still strong. He most certainly was not underestimating his foe. Bluffing however is a crucial part of warfare.   

In any case, he was not acting like a total imbecile nor was he a caricature of a character, which is what annoys me about Cailan (and my annoyance is subjective).

He is realistic and well written, even if he annoys.

EDIT: the melancholy is touched on Roche's path more. But it was in Act 1, with the marriage not working out and his hatred of Loredo and disliking of the Scoia'Tael. Zoltan in Vergen is a different man than Zoltan in Flotsam. The former found purpose and feels at home.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 02 novembre 2011 - 02:57 .

[Addai]

Bayz wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

That's how I understand loot distribution, as payment.

I'm not sure how you can understand the Warden in any other way.  When Sten challenges you in Haven, for instance, he's challenging your leadership of your band.

For mercenary bands, loot distribution and payment were two different animals. They expected payment  regardless of the loot. Professional Armies were the ones not getting loot except if they were not paid.

Sten and the qunari have a <understatement> limited <understatement> knoledge of how the Grey Wardens, the Blight and anything regarding people from non Qun lands in general. He challenged the Warden Commander for leadership, but if he had it the blight would probably be reaching Par Vollen by the end of Dragon Age 3.

They are not mercenaries, they (supposedly) can't take a side in any conflict or do anything different from fighting the Darkspawn as a whole. The organization is a highly specialised corps of Darkspawn hunters, not swords for hire.

That your character was forced into getting their hands into **** is different. The Grey Wardens as a whole would not endorse it, but maybe see it as necessary to stop the bickering and have the noblesdwarveselvesgolemswhatever stop ****ing with each other and pay attention to the Blight.

Quite different from a sellsword IMO

People are following you and have given a pledge to fight for you, they follow your orders and defer to your leadership, and they have to eat.  What do you call that?  It doesn't really matter how Grey Wardens normally conduct business because you're not under any formal obligation to them, you're a freelancer.

This discussion is kind of silly.  My point is that I would rather have a military role again rather than Hawke's unspecified drifter's existence, which makes the concept of followers incoherent.

Modifié par Addai67, 02 novembre 2011 - 03:29 .

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

<<<<peeks around, plants explosive device, then sneaks off.

[Addai]

Dropping in to post a link to my new commission from MaevesChild- slightly NSFW.    It's my treat to myself for finishing the bohemoth.

[Bayz]

Addai67 wrote...

People are following you and have given a pledge to fight for you, they follow your orders and defer to your leadership, and they have to eat.  What do you call that?

Company. What Kind of Company? Certainly not a Mercenary one. Mercenaries do not pledge to fight for you, they pledge to fight for you so long as you keep paying them.

Addai67 wrote...
It doesn't really matter how Grey Wardens normally conduct business because you're not under any formal obligation to them, you're a freelancer.

You actually are after you do the Joining. Or so I've been told. No you do not sign anything but still the alternative is to live like Anders until the taint takes the best of you, so...

Addai67 wrote...
This discussion is kind of silly.  My point is that I would rather have a military role again rather than Hawke's unspecified drifter's existence, which makes the concept of followers incoherent.

I've never said you are not having a military role. Just not a Mercenary one, as I do not see the Grey Wardens as mercenaries.

Cool Shading and Lighting btw

Modifié par Bayz, 03 novembre 2011 - 06:25 .

[CalJones]

Ooh, sexy pic, Addai.

KoP - can't say I like the tubby rapist too much but yes, he's more believable than Cailan. Then again, who isn't? The first time I saw Cailan in game I was reminded of some ludicrious JRPG hero. I was pleasantly surprised, therefore, when he got squished (and somewhat dismayed by all the lamentation in RtO). Anyway, moving on...

I've not been Dragon Ageing lately - I've finished Deus Ex three times now, for all the endings so I'll play Invisible War next (even if it does suck compared to Deus Ex), then Alpha Protocol and then I'll get Human Revolution. After that lot, Skyrim ought to have come down in price a bit and Bethesda should have patched it at least once.

I may get around to getting the DLC for F:NV as well. I bought the first one and wasn't too impressed (it was clever, but I found the atmosphere very gloomy and thus unpleasant to play) but I gather the subsequent DLCs are excellent. Anyone care to comment on this?

[Costin_Razvan]

KoP - can't say I like the tubby rapist too much but yes,

Assuming Ves is a woman that would allow herself to be raped.....somehow I find that hard to believe. If she allowed Henselt to force himself on her so she can walk away from something she rightly deserves to be hanged for (  killing the Blue Stripes was perfectly justified after what Roche just did...hell declaring war on Temeria would be perfectly justified after Roche tried to pull a Coup ) then sorry that's not rape.

Henselt should be compared to Cailan though. Both are womanizers, warlords, like to spend time with their men, they cheat on their wives ( I assume Henselt has one ) and both of them like the Glory of battle.

Thing is Henselt gives a ****ing damn more then just about glory and legends, he actually gives a spit for his country.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 04 novembre 2011 - 02:02 .