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[Costin_Razvan]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

And like I said, I had no persuasion. And the wiki says, he sides with you if you pick that argument with or without persuasion. Maybe that's it.

I checked this after respecing, and yes it's true. The Persuade option is there to convince Alfansa apparently. But since she is convinced if you give her a ****ty ring, then whatever.

[Persephone]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

And like I said, I had no persuasion. And the wiki says, he sides with you if you pick that argument with or without persuasion. Maybe that's it.

I checked this after respecing, and yes it's true. The Persuade option is there to convince Alfansa apparently. But since she is convinced if you give her a ****ty ring, then whatever.

It's not the ring giving, it's who that ring belongs to and saving her brother that convinces her.

[pplr]

I believe the Wikia (which can be wrong) says you need to talk to Wulf beforehand (he is the one whose lands and family have taken a beating from the blight).

Perhaps since you refreshed how bad the blight in his mind he is more willing to go with the point that the blight is a bigger threat than the Orlesians.

[Joy Divison]

Costin_Razvan wrote...


Tell me exactly how revolting against the law in that case would have led to anything other then a massacre? As a Romanian I should know, our Gov followed German orders as good lap dogs in WW2 and jews died for it.

Had the Governement refused however, many many more would have died. If individual people refused the law then they would suffer greatly. Welcome to reality: There was no choice for France or Romania on what would happen.

Does that somehow excuse the actions of Petain and Antonescu? No, but context is important.

There were two countries in Hitler's Europe which managed through stonewalling, intransigence, and sometimes outright defiance to protect most of its Jews from the Third Reich's racial laws: Denmark and Italy (primarily before Mussolini's overthrow).  Hell, the Italians even managed to prevent the Jews from being extradited in areas it occupied in the Balkans.  Had Horthy of Hungray not got cold feet in 1944, it might have been three. Laws can only function in a civil society if the populace assents to them.  It's Vichy's shameful legacy that so many Frenchmen and women prioritzed law and order and an independent police force over helping their neighbor from 1940-44.  There was a choice.  Most Europeans living under the aegis of Naazi power outside of Denmark and Italy made the wrong choice.

If you're going to bring up "context is important," the CE (particularly the female) has much more in her favor than the Europeans of seventy years ago who choose poorly.

Modifié par Joy Divison, 24 janvier 2012 - 05:59 .

[Fiery Knight]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

*snip of Shepard intelligent arguement done 15 days ago*

I see. Well you tale up valid points, and I thought by Shepard charm options was a sign of a little intelligence by him.

But then again, what makes Geralt a better character than Shepard? Okay, I haven't played TW2, and I've heared he was extremely well done there, but someone showing a great skill in both knowledge and intelligence doesn't make him a better characther IMO.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Hawke_12 wrote...
But then again, what makes Geralt a better character than Shepard? Okay, I haven't played TW2, and I've heared he was extremely well done there, but someone showing a great skill in both knowledge and intelligence doesn't make him a better characther IMO.

Geralt is very polarizing. Some who played TW2 hate him and find him extremily dull. I do not.

I was arguing that Geralt was a better *protagonist* in my eyes because of his skills and knowledge (that are not overblown either). And since I do not take anything in isolation, Geralt's projection onto a much better written world and story helps make him a better protagonist than all Bioware ones. 

As to why I like Geralt more as a character.
Well first of all, Geralt is actually a character. Shepard is not, he's in betwen a set character and an avatar of sorts, while being neither. Many seem to enjoy this balance, but I don't.  

Now what I find compelling about Geralt, which ultimately is subjective.
- His competence, knowledge and skills in good dosages. I seldom like a brutish and / or incompetent protagonist. Geralt is shown as intelligent, smart, wise without overblowing him and making him godly. In large part because he is surrounded by great characters. 

- While amnesia's been done a million times, I felt TW1 did it best thanks to its identity quest. What I like about it is that it doesn't have any bombastic revelations. It simply forces Geralt into a dilema: should he do exactly what he thinks he  would have done or does he reshape his identity and beliefs according to his new experiences? And how does he justify his actions? 

- Related. Geralt has a lot of avenues to express his beliefs, opinions and concerns in an elaborate way (more so in TW1, but it is also in TW2). And often, he sounds wise while doing so. His discussion with Zoltan, Yaevinn, Triss, Zyvik....etc shows a character who reacts to the world he is living in. Shepard on the otherhand can only do something similar at the end of LotSB. 

- Geralt is a flawed being. He has made mistakes (indeed one could argue that TW1's story is ultimately that of a personal failure). And his reactivity is explained by his character (much like Batman), hence why I do not mind it as much as I mind it in Hawke (that and Geralt didn't sit on his ass for 7 years).  

- Related, his mutant status adds to his charm. While being an outcast and a freak in society's eyes is nothing new, I felt it was done well in TW series.  

- He is a complete badass. His sense of humor is very funny. I still LOL at moments in TW1 and 2. I remember Costin and I laughed for a few good minutes on skype when we remembered a quest in Act 2 Iorveth's path hahaha. And I like his voice (I know many abhor it), especially in TW2. 

- Also important to me is that Geralt shines in large part because he is surrounded by shining characters, in a very good story. I would not have liked Geralt as much if all he did was interact with idiots and do his part in a mess of a story.  

- Ultimately, Geralt transcends categorization of "good guy" or "bad guy". Dandelion put it best, so I'll just paste what he wrote: 
Fate has little mercy for him, piling obstacles in his way, yet he trudges on. He has more scruples than a beggaring bum has fleas. Doubts haunt him even when a band of ruffians, knives drawn, approaches him on the highway. Is he a good man? I do not think so. Does he try to maintain his humanity? I believe he does. 

There are more reasons that I am missing I am sure, but those are the main ones that come to mind. 

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 26 janvier 2012 - 04:34 .

[blothulfur]

Another positive is that Geralt will instigate quests of his own volition at certain points, not merely follow the orders of others. This is refreshingly proactive and makes him seem much more capable and in control, he makes the logical conslusions that any player would.

Also as a man it's nice to play a man, not a blank slate that's easily morphed into either gender.

[Costin_Razvan]

- He is a complete badass. His sense of humor is very funny. I still LOL at moments in TW1 and 2. I remember Costin and I laughed for a few good minutes on skype when we remembered a quest in Act 2 Iorveth's path hahaha. And I like his voice (I know many abhor it), especially in TW2.

You mean when Iorveth stands up to the mob or when Geralt asks Iorveth.

Geralt: "Do you think we can win?"

Iorveth: "No"

Geralt ( shocked ): "What do you mean no?!"

Iorveth: "The defenses aren't strong enough."

Btw here's the intro to the Witcher 2 Enhanced Edition, or the base edition for Xbox coming free for PC owners as well:  

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 26 janvier 2012 - 06:45 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

OMFG! Letho you badass mother****er!!

And no I meant the succubus quest.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 26 janvier 2012 - 07:22 .

[Costin_Razvan]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

OMFG! Letho you badass mother****er!!

And no I meant the succubus quest.

Oh now I remember, just LOL. Also they aded some stuff to Loc Muine, for instance they showed footage if Geralt didn't save Triss with a lot of mages dead around the place, blood and all that.

Also Letho while waiting for Geralt was playing with something.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Also Letho while waiting for Geralt was playing with something.

....that sounds wrong lol

Playing with what?

[Costin_Razvan]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Also Letho while waiting for Geralt was playing with something.

....that sounds wrong lol

Playing with what?

A trinket? I thought it looked like a bomb or the remains of one.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Sile's diamond that he replaced?

BTW, where can I see all this?

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 26 janvier 2012 - 07:34 .

[Costin_Razvan]

It was in the live conference. I'll do a vid showing this stuff, tomorrow.

[Fiery Knight]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

*snip*

Okay, you take up good points and explain it well.

But I have to play TW2 and see for myself how of a character Geralt is and what kind of impression I will get from him when I finally play it.

Thx for answering!

[KnightofPhoenix]

I recommend playing TW1 before. It delves into the personal aspect of Geralt more than the 2nd, I found.

[Persephone]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I recommend playing TW1 before. It delves into the personal aspect of Geralt more than the 2nd, I found.

This. TW2's Import feature doesn't change much but playing both game in succession is an experience to treasure. I LOVE the Identity Quest btw.

Great news about the Enhanced Edition btw. I'm playing a new run of TW1 atm to have a new save for this.

Costin, can't wait to see your vid! 

[Persephone]

http://www.fanfictio...t/s/6087280/27/

Yes, I am still alive.... Writing and everything. Ch. 27 of "The Edge Of The Grey Enigma" is up.

[Costin_Razvan]

I was reading Mass Effect: Deception.

It's good, it's very very good except for some major issues in terms of how it affects the ME cannon. Still as a novel on itself it's amazing. There's TIM, Aria, Leng. It's all very good.

Then there's Anderon and Marie Sue, I mean Sanders, but they fail this time at everything they attempt to achieve while the Illusive Man pulls everything he wants off superbly.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Is Leng interesting?

Hopefully TIM wont be ruined and will be interesting in ME3

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 01 février 2012 - 07:07 .

[Costin_Razvan]

Very interesting. He's subtle, smart and a badass. He's a racist, true, but the reason he was sent to an Alliance prison was because he killed a Krogan in self defense during a knife fight in a bar. Sure he provoked the Krogan but the Krogan attacked first.

He was sentenced to 20 years for that in the worst hellhole of a prison you can imagine, while a friend and later a lover of his was sentenced to five years when she only intervened with a throw during the fight with the Krogan to save Leng's life.

Talk about the Alliance seeking to appease the bloody Council. TIM and Leng are worried, and rightly so, that humanity would lose it's identity and culture, something I can completely understand.

He might end up a great antagonist, who knows.

I also like the wealth of information there is about Cerberus and TIM in the novel. TIM has a PR campaign going on, and Cerberus is portrayed as competent throughout the novel. Every objective Leng is assigned to do, he does it ( Retrevie a body from C-Sec, killing a former Cerberus Operative and killing Gillian Grayson.

Gillian Grayson is a nasty ****, the likes of Subject Zero in power and rage, but she's smart in what she wants to achieve: KIlling the Illusive Man, but TIM is just smarter then her and in the end, despite her biotic power she gets killed by Leng with a sharpened toothbrush while his hands and feet where bound.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 01 février 2012 - 01:48 .

[Chewin]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

I was reading Mass Effect: Deception.

It's good, it's very very good except for some major issues in terms of how it affects the ME cannon. Still as a novel on itself it's amazing. There's TIM, Aria, Leng. It's all very good.

Then there's Anderon and Marie Sue, I mean Sanders, but they fail this time at everything they attempt to achieve while the Illusive Man pulls everything he wants off superbly.

Don't really want to come barking in here and start judging your opinion--which you are heavily entitled to--but could you explain what you found in the book that made it good?

I haven't really come a cross anyone who has found the book reven readable, and would like to hear a decent opinion, which wouldn't involve "bashing it" to death, if it isn't to much to ask.

Modifié par Chewin3, 01 février 2012 - 02:11 .

[Costin_Razvan]

The portrayal of TIM, Leng and Cerberus overall is pretty good. Leng is just superb as a character in my view. He's a racist, but he's not stupid at all and I understand his views, hell I agree with some of them.

Then there's the portrayal on Omega, as in Gang Wars, everyday life for the people living there etc. Oddly enough I liked Grayson's Character, she is what Jack should have been: Filled with hatred, but very clever. She manipulates and uses people, hell I even thought she would be joining Cerberus in the end ( I knew she wasn't going to kill TIM, that's for Shepard and Shepard only but I liked her enough I would have liked to see her change her mind and join TIM )

I knew Cerberus wasn't going to take major hits and what I really appreciate is the rather good portrayal of them in the novel. Unlike Retribution, where they almost get destroyed.

And thank God Sanders and Anderson only play the roles of secondary characters.

The issues are for the most part the contradictions to established lore: Seeing stars from the Citadel, the fact 6 years pass since Ascension, which was set after ME1 but before ME2. That kind of stuff.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 01 février 2012 - 02:53 .

[Chewin]

I see.

While the book may portray Cerberus as a decent organization for once, I don't really see what makes the book good.

It his highly inconsistent with the lore and timeline --which you brought up-- with terrible character development, a story with no overall purpose, terrible writing, and not excluding that apparantly by the authors point if view, Auticism gets treated like a childhood phase which can be "grown out of", homosexual characters are suddenly straight, and other lore errors that can be found in the Google Document (though some may be nitpicky).

As for Leng, well if you ignore the cereal eating and urinating on other peoples vases, can certainly be an interesting character, but is portraid quite wrong in Deception if you've read Retribution.

Modifié par Chewin3, 01 février 2012 - 03:38 .

[Costin_Razvan]

I've read Retribution, not sure what's different about him from that book? Or did I forget something.

And as I've said, lore issues are abundant, but then again lore issues are abundant in the ME games, and the other ME novels ( Biotics where portrayed very badly in the other ME novels for instance ). The other novels I only read because I cared about certain events that happen in them. I didn't read them for the characters because Sanders is a Mary Sue.

Deception I enjoyed because of the characters, it doesn't feature anything of real importance happening trully. I guess it's to end the tale of Grayson and that's about it. I knew TIM and Leng where going to win so there's that.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 01 février 2012 - 04:00 .