12857 réponses à ce sujet

[Costin_Razvan]

It's Bioware. I have very little hope or reason to be optimistic at this point. And quite frankly I reached the point where I stopped carring.

I think you should stop placing the label Bioware on both the ME team and DA team. Cause frankly it's an insult to the excellent team that made Mass Effect games so far to be compared to those ****ing idiots in the DA team.

As for KOTOR...yeah many issues sadly. When it came out it was quite playable but bleh. I know it's good I just can't tolerate that anymore.

As for SWTOR, there seems to be a real rise to power in that game for some classes. Check the Sith Warrior ending for instance:

[KnightofPhoenix]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

It's Bioware. I have very little hope or reason to be optimistic at this point. And quite frankly I reached the point where I stopped carring.

I think you should stop placing the label Bioware on both the ME team and DA team. Cause frankly it's an insult to the excellent team that made Mass Effect games so far to be compared to those ****ing idiots in the DA team.

You speak as if Mass Effect is a paragon of story telling and complexity, filled with reasonable and competent antagonists. It's not. Its writing is shallow, its story is weak, most of its characters are weak, its antagonists are ****.

And then when I read that the Sith Emperor in ToR wants to consume all life in the galaxy including his own people, yet another ****ing bid bad evil except now magnified to epic proportions of cluster ****, then yea, I will say it's Bioware as a whole.

[Costin_Razvan]

You speak as if Mass Effect is a paragon of story telling and complexity, filled with reasonable and competent antagonists. It's not. Its writing is shallow, its story is weak, most of its characters are weak, its antagonists are ****.

The quality of a story rests in how it's told as well, how we get from point A to point B. Yes Harbinger is **** and the Collectors are ****, but you know what? I don't care about them. Mass Effect 2 could be simplified like this: Rise from the dead, gather a team, get the IFF and destroy the Collectors. That's it. But doing these is very interesting. the recruitment, the loyalty missions and all that.

Yes there are bad recruitment and loyalty missions, but I'd strongly argue most of them are quite interesting to play through and please don't tell me it's just shooter bull****: Cause Mass Effect stands 100 times better then stories in any shooter today.

Saren and Benezia however are quite interesting from my perspective.

And then when I read that the Sith Emperor in ToR wants to consume all life in the galaxy including his own people, yet another ****ing bid bad evil except now magnified to epic proportions of cluster ****, then yea, I will say it's Bioware as a whole.

That idiotic and I've read it now on the wiki. I'd honestly blame that more on Star Wars as a Universe...because Palpatine wasn't any ****ing better.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 13 février 2012 - 03:38 .

[Dave of Canada]

Costin_Razvan wrote...
As for SWTOR, there seems to be a real rise to power in that game for some classes. Check the Sith Warrior ending for instance:

Though it's (unfortunately) very linear. There's no differences between the Sith Warrior who's merciful and the Sith Warrior who's stumbling around and killing everybody, it's even more ruined when you find out that [spoilers] the Emperor is "pure evil" and dead because the Jedi Knight player killed him, so your position of power as the Emperor's Wrath means absolutely nothing[/spoilers].

I'd place the Imperial Agent as being superior in the rise to power, it's optional and some of your choices influence how the ending plays out. I think there's like... 5-6 endings for the Agent?

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 13 février 2012 - 03:38 .

[Costin_Razvan]

I'd place the Imperial Agent as being superior in the rise to power, it's optional and some of your choices influence how the ending plays out. I think there's like... 5-6 endings for the Agent?

Yeah I was watching that. You can give the data to the Sith, keep it for yourself and delete any reference to your character thus becoming a shadow in the Empire serving it's interests, or give to a Republic agent of all things..

[Dave of Canada]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

I'd place the Imperial Agent as being superior in the rise to power, it's optional and some of your choices influence how the ending plays out. I think there's like... 5-6 endings for the Agent?

Yeah I was watching that. You can give the data to the Sith, keep it for yourself and delete any reference to your character thus becoming a shadow in the Empire serving it's interests, or give to a Republic agent of all things..

You can also just delete it or give it to your Sith lord master if you sided with him in Act 1 and something else which I forget.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 13 février 2012 - 03:41 .

[Costin_Razvan]

You can also become the head of Sith Intelligence apparently. it all depends on your earlier choices. Huh that's something.

And you can become a secret agent of the Republic. http://www.swtor.com...ead.php?t=84244

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 13 février 2012 - 03:43 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Costin_Razvan wrote...
Yes there are bad recruitment and loyalty missions, but I'd strongly argue most of them are quite interesting to play through and please don't tell me it's just shooter bull****: Cause Mass Effect stands 100 times better then stories in any shooter today.

It's not  like shooters (really not saying much at all). I did not find any of those interesting. There are two loyalty missions I found interesting. Mordin and Tali. Tali's one is ruined by how seemingly stupid the Quarians are in ME3. The rest, I didn't give a damn about.

Which isn't the point I was making anyways. Bioware simply sucks at creating a grounded universe, with a grounded story. It always has to be high fantasy bs, with a big bad evil and supernatural elements stripping it of humanity because making it otherwise is too hard to write.

The only two exceptions that I can think of are Loghain and the Architect (who single handedly made the darkspawn sort of interesting, otherwise they would be utter **** like the Reapers). Ironically, in DA.
Maybe TIM can also be an exception, but I see no reason to expect that.

That idiotic and I've read it now on the wiki. I'd honestly blame that more on Star Wars as a Universe...because Palpatine wasn't any ****ing better.

Yes he was. Yea he was an ****, but the extended universe showed that part of his calculations was preparing to defeat the Vong. And at least he didn't want to exterminate everyone in the bloody galaxy!

Even by Star Wars standards, this is ****ed up.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 13 février 2012 - 03:47 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Dave of Canada wrote...

I'd place the Imperial Agent as being superior in the rise to power, it's optional and some of your choices influence how the ending plays out. I think there's like... 5-6 endings for the Agent?

I knew that class would be the most interesting.
But I honestly can't bring myself to care to play one, after what has been revealed.

[Costin_Razvan]

But I honestly can't bring myself to care to play one, after what has been revealed.

The whole thing about the Emperor planning to exterminate all Galaxy is only revealed by Scourge not by the Emperor. It's far from a fact.

I do like Darth Malgus though, who murdered the only person he ever loved because it was a weakness others could use against him.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 13 février 2012 - 04:01 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

But I honestly can't bring myself to care to play one, after what has been revealed.

The whole thing about the Emperor planning to exterminate all Galaxy is only revealed by Scourge not by the Emperor. It's far from a fact.

The Emperor said it himself to the jedi who supposedely killed him. Saw the vid.

[Costin_Razvan]

 

It's not  like shooters (really not saying much at all). I did not find any of those interesting. There are two loyalty missions I found interesting. Mordin and Tali. Tali's one is ruined by how seemingly stupid the Quarians are in ME3. The rest, I didn't give a damn about.

One thing I don't understand about the Quarians is how would they get enough votes to attack? Sure Tali would be in favor of war, as would Han'Gerrel, but Shala'Ran and Korris wouldn't.
So did Xen somehow vote in favor of war while she secretly developed a weapon to take control back of the Geth and place them under Quarian control?  I think that's it really.
As for others...besides Legion they certainly they don't add much to the Universe, but I'd argue Garrus's was done fairly well, as is Zaeed's, Thane's ( showing some Citadel politics ) and Samara's.

 
Which isn't the point I was making anyways. Bioware simply sucks at creating a grounded universe, with a grounded story. It always has to be high fantasy bs, with a big bad evil and supernatural elements stripping it of humanity because making it otherwise is too hard to write. 

Certainly there are supernatural elements to it and the Reapers are done for the most part badly, but they only represent a part of the Universe. I fail to see how the ENTIRE ME universe is **** just because of them. I find it one of the most interesting game universes ever created, hell in fact the most interesting. No I don't count the Witcher universe since that was created in books not games. Alpha Protocol doesn't really have it's own unique universe.

I guess I coulder consider the Command and Conquer Tiberium Universe somewhat good...but eh too many problems with that one, way too many.

The only two exceptions that I can think of are Loghain and the Architect (who single handedly made the darkspawn sort of interesting, otherwise they would be utter **** like the Reapers). Ironically, in DA.
Maybe TIM can also be an exception, but I see no reason to expect that.  

The Darkspawn without the Architect would actually be a hell lot worse then the Reapers. Sure the Reapers want to Harvest all life in the Galaxy but they don't it just because they can, they do it to increase their numbers

The Darkspawn however, they want to kill everyone for no ****ing reason.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 13 février 2012 - 04:06 .

[Costin_Razvan]

The Emperor said it himself to the jedi who supposedely killed him. Saw the vid.

Which one?

[KnightofPhoenix]

Costin_Razvan wrote...
Certainly there are supernatural elements to it and the Reapers are done for the most part badly, but they only represent a part of the Universe. I fail to see how the ENTIRE ME universe is **** just because of them.

Because ME's story is centralized around them. The ME games simply did not explore the universe in depth, and the parts they explored were as a means to an end (defeating the Reapers, and yea it's the same in DA). 

Yea, ME has interesting issues in codices and maybe a few lines of dialogue. But why should I care if none of it is explored in the game or barely so? The genophage for instance, was retconned and changed and its social and political implications on the Krogans were not explored as much as it deserved. We hear that Wrex is uniting the Krogans, but see nothing of it. I would have much rather helped him do it directly than waste my time nursing Grunt to puberty, or fight big space machine bugs.

Everything that is interesting in ME is kept in codices, bits of dialogue and maybe one side quest that fails to give it justice.

In TW1 and 2, the story and setting are grounded. It doesn't have any of these childish concepts being shoved in our faces and down our throats. Yea it's based on a book, but the story of TW2 was created from scratch. They could have easily made TW1 and 2 about an uninteresting Wild Hunt (my biggest fear at the moment). They didn't. They instead opted to be more mature.

The Darkspawn without the Architect would actually be a hell lot worse then the Reapers. Sure the Reapers want to Harvest all life in the Galaxy but they don't it just because they can, they do it to increase their numbers

The Darkspawn however, they want to kill everyone for no ****ing reason.

We don't know what the Old Gods want. Regardless, both are pathetic and ridiculous. And I am waiting anxiously to find out about the idol and Flemeth, because I am sure I will be loling.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

The Emperor said it himself to the jedi who supposedely killed him. Saw the vid.

Which one?

I will try to find others, one of the dialogue options is "why are you doing this?"

[Costin_Razvan]

I think it's a bit too much information about the Emperor to absorb at once..

Of course one couldn't ****ing expect the Empire to be portrayed as being lead by an interesting, charismatic and intelligent Emperor. We both know they were going to lose from start...which makes me question the point of it.

I really, really don't give a crap about SWTOR. At most I cared about Revan and what happened to him.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 13 février 2012 - 04:27 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

I don't either, but everything I see from Bioware leads me to not expect any improvement in the future. They will keep going on with their childish high fantasy fetish and hilariously ridiculous antagonists.

[Costin_Razvan]

Well as long as people can keep boning elves Zjarcal does it's all good right. "spits" But yeah let's bone Fenris and Merril. 

The genophage for instance, was retconned and changed and its social and political implications on the Krogans were not explored as much as it deserved.

There's confusion even in the damned codex of ME1, I just read it. From the ME1 codex what Mordin says isn't necessarily false.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 13 février 2012 - 04:35 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Well as long as people can keep boning elves Zjarcal does it's all good right. "spits" But yeah let's bone Fenris and Merril.

What?....

There's confusion even in the damned codex of ME1, I just read it. From the ME1 codex what Mordin says isn't necessarily false.

The genophage should have simply been explored more. We don't need Reapers to explore it.

But of course, what would your average joe want to play.
"Explore the political intrigues of the galaxy. Face opponents with reasonalbe and understandable motives. Deal with interesting and complex issues without us explicitly or implicitly shoving our sense of morality down your throat"

or

"lol save the galaxy from big evil bug machines!"

Sigh.
Same applies to DA and now ToR.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 13 février 2012 - 04:43 .

[Costin_Razvan]

What?....

The romances are the only thing I can find as a reasonable explanation for why people like DA2.

The genophage should have simply been explored more. We don't need Reapers to explore it.

But of course, what would your average joe want to play.

I kinda doubt most people play Mass Effect because of the whole "Shoot thing, save the Galaxy BS" rather they play it because of the Universe, the Characters and all that. There are a LOT of Star Wars and Star Trek fans who love the Mass Effect series.

Now one might think this about Mass Effect 2 vs Mass Effect 1, that they simplified stuff, gameplay included to get shooter fans, but here's the thing

50% of players who got the game didn't finish it. 50% of players imported an ME1 save. So it seems to me the people who finished ME2, for the most part also cared about ME1.

Sure ME1 had you saving the Galaxy, but that wasn't obvious from the start, hell you only found about Sovereign very late in the game.

[Addai]

I'm curious what you guys think about Thomas Gop and Jan Bartkowicz suddenly departing CDPR. That's a bit worrying.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Costin_Razvan wrote...
I kinda doubt most people play Mass Effect because of the whole "Shoot thing, save the Galaxy BS" rather they play it because of the Universe, the Characters and all that. There are a LOT of Star Wars and Star Trek fans who love the Mass Effect series.

Mass Effect is a space opera, it was clear from the start and that's how it marketed itself.
And what I read from people in the forums here certainly do not point to your speculation.

Sure ME1 had you saving the Galaxy, but that wasn't obvious from the start, hell you only found about Sovereign very late in the game.

Yea, except we had Anderson saying that Saren wants to exterminate humanity. You know, the line that they kept making us hear in the first trailers.

And let's not forget: "That's the only kind of person who can protect the galaxy" (why?) at the very first second of the game.

[Costin_Razvan]

Gop left CDPR a while back and Bartkowicz recently.

Don't really care, they weren't key members in the development team and I feel that every single writer in CDPR knows what the hell they are doing.

Mass Effect is a space opera, it was clear from the start and that's how it marketed itself. 
And what I read from people in the forums here certainly do not point to your speculation.

The forums do not represent anything. Most people here on the forums of ME probably romanced someone, most ME players didn't romance anyone. 80% played a solider.

Bioware gave stats on ME2 a while back, how many people romanced who, what characters are popular ( Morinth is more popular then Kaidan btw ),  how many times they replayed the game and all that.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 13 février 2012 - 04:59 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Addai67 wrote...

I'm curious what you guys think about Thomas Gop and Jan Bartkowicz suddenly departing CDPR. That's a bit worrying.

Yea to be honest I am worried.

About that. Also about the Wild Hunt. I also saw an old vid where the devs were saying that Nilgaard was this big evil empire that made me raise an eyebrow.

CDPR can still **** it all up.

But all I have seen as of yet in TW1 and 2 gives me reason to believe that they won't screw up. Jan reassured us that the senior writer is still there and I doubt he will make a 180 degrees turn and start shoving bs in our faces.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 13 février 2012 - 04:59 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Costin_Razvan wrote...
The forums do not represent anything. Most people here on the forums of ME probably romanced someone, most ME players didn't romance anyone. 80% played a solider.

Bioware gave stats on ME2 a while back, how many people romanced who, what characters are popular ( Morinth is more popular then Kaidan btw ),  how many times they replayed the game and all that.

If most players are not interested in romance, I kind of doubt they will be interested in the universe or its characters. You honestly think most players are going to read the codices? Or care about the genophage? Or care about listening to characters? Or think for 2 seconds before blowing up the base?

I doubt it.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 13 février 2012 - 05:01 .