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Why Teyrn Loghain is the deepest character in Dragon Age


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#12576
Costin_Razvan

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Don't sing Drew K's praises. He created the ****ing TOR Emperor.

#12577
Guest_greengoron89_*

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Haven't played TOR and never will. I'm just going off of his work that I'm actually familiar with - mostly in KOTOR, ME1, and some of ME2, which were all excellent to varying degrees (ME2 had its problems, but then again Hack Walters was also co-lead writer).

#12578
Costin_Razvan

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Mac Walters does a better job then Drew K who made the Emperor want to consume all life in the Galaxy, ALL life. Seriously don't blame the guy who had to clean up the mess made by Drew ( Reapers, Cerberus being evil ).

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 20 mars 2012 - 11:59 .


#12579
Guest_greengoron89_*

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I wouldn't say Cerberus was "evil" - they've always just been extremely pragmatic and pro-human, so TIM trying to take control of the Reapers and utilize their tech was no surprise (and guess who turned out to be right in the end?). But I don't hate them quite as much as the games try to make you, and I definitely would've rather convinced TIM to join with me instead of him becoming Saren 2.0.

And I don't proclaim Drew to be the best writer ever (ME1 had its own weak points), but Mac was the lead writer of ME3 - the catastrophic failure that was the ending was all his doing, and that alone puts him on my s***list.

Modifié par greengoron89, 20 mars 2012 - 01:34 .


#12580
Costin_Razvan

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And I don't proclaim Drew to be the best writer ever (ME1 had its own weak points), but Mac was the lead writer of ME3 - the catastrophic failure that was the ending was all his doing, and that alone puts him on my s***list.


Drew K himself stated the endings were always going to be about Reapers and Relays ever since they created ME, the only thing Walters decided was to keep them vague as well...and considering the BS they pulled with the epilogue slides of DA:O and DA:A I vastly prefer this.

#12581
Guest_greengoron89_*

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Wait... what's wrong with the Epilogues for DA:O and Awakening? :huh:

#12582
KnightofPhoenix

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I of course prefer the epilogue of DA:O than this. TW2 is going to have a fancier epilogue as well, with just cinematics instead. Nothing wrong with that imo.

#12583
TEWR

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KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Honestly, after everything I am seeing of Bioware, I am becoming convinced that Loghain being that awesome and deep a character was an accident.

I cannot understand how people who made someone like Loghain or even the Architect, can end up making BS like Meredith, Orsino, the Sith emperor (God what a big piece of doodoo), TIM (God!) and the idiotic guardian.

ME2, DA2, ToR and ME3 all point to Bioware's writing philosophy and the direction they are taking, and I don't see it producing characters like that again.


Though having not played the ME series myself nor TOR either, based on my experience with the DA series I must agree with you.

The writing of DA seems to be growing progressively worse -- if not rapidly declining. Plot holes, shoddy characterization -- and that's being generous -- , and feeble excuses fill the framework of what are good concepts storyline wise. The former issue was also in DAO, but to a much lesser degree.

It's why I'm extremely apprehensive and pessimistic about DAIII being anything of quality. I yearn for the political intrigue and the amazing characterization that should be in these games. I clamor for a world that feels as it should be.

Recently, my mind has been going back to FFXII a lot. For the music and a few select cutscenes mostly, but goddamn did I love the more politically-oriented story of FFXII. Even if I had no say on my "protagonist"*, the story was stellar.

*Interesting factoid: FFXII's Word of God says that Vaan was just added because of fear what the real main character -- Basch -- would do to sales in regards to the FF fanbase, given a previous iteration in the series that used a protagonist older then the teens/early 20s. In that, Vaan is really just a supporting protagonist while Basch is still very much -- alongside Balthier and Ashe -- the main protagonist.

#12584
KnightofPhoenix

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The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
 I yearn for the political intrigue and the amazing characterization that should be in these games. I clamor for a world that feels as it should be.


The Witcher 2.

Nuff said.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 21 mars 2012 - 04:44 .


#12585
TEWR

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Alas, my PCs cannot handle such an amazing level of epicness. TW2 slows them down to very laggy speeds, patches included.

#12586
KnightofPhoenix

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The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Alas, my PCs cannot handle such an amazing level of epicness. TW2 slows them down to very laggy speeds, patches included.


Own a Xbox 360?
It's coming out on April 17th

#12587
TEWR

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PS3. Is it coming out for that eventually?

#12588
KnightofPhoenix

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Doesn't look like it sadly.

A shame. Based on your criticism of DA2, I think you would have loved TW2. Perhaps you might want to try TW1? Doesn't require a strong PC. I prefer the 2nd game, but TW1 is also great in its own right.

#12589
TEWR

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Did some digging. Seems like after the 360 one is finished, they're going to work on the PS3 one if they can find some people proficient with how to make it on the PS3. And if the staff is fine with working on the game for a third time.
 
One of their staff said they don't like to do things 50/50. They devote themselves fully to a goal.

And that is fine by me. I will gladly wait for awesomeness if it means they're giving their full attention to it when they begin it, if they do begin it.

And I do in fact have The Witcher. The enhanced edition actually. Perhaps one of these days I'll installing it and playing it. Though I can't play my copy of TW2, it would be nice to see how TW1 is.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 21 mars 2012 - 05:30 .


#12590
Gexora

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Saw this thread, and it's active
Wept tears of happiness.
Came hare.
Saw another ending discussion.
****

#12591
Dave of Canada

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@TEWR: Try finding some local store which rents a 360 or laptop, I had to rent a laptop to play TW2 and it's definitely worth it. :P

#12592
Brockololly

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KnightofPhoenix wrote...
The Witcher 2.

Nuff said.


I love this trailer so, so much.

#12593
Dave of Canada

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Currently planning out a future TW2 playthrough for this summer which I'll go Roche's path, need to discuss something and I don't know where so I assume this place shall do.

[Spoiler warning]

After saving Anais, as Triss is fairly unimportant in the larger scheme of things, what would possibly be for the best ?

Radovid's plan to unite Redenia and Temeria seems strong, possibly for the best and could create a greater future but I heavily doubt the fractured Temeria would bow down to his rule. Last thing we need at the moment is complete and total war between Redenia and shattered Temeria (though wouldn't stand a chance) with Nilfgaard looming over them.

However, John Natalis and his plan for Anais isn't that bright. Being capable of holding Temeria's 
sovereignty[/i] is nice but what future plans does he hold for the young girl, other than teaching her the act of war? She pretty much relies on learning everything from him and Roche while they're solving civil war, which is a bad time to teach a child on how to be Queen. More so considering Nilfgaard's approach.

Now, arguably I'd say having Redania with Anais is the best long-term, but... Temeria could still play some part in the war with Nilfgaard, which will possibly occur before Radovid can use Anais to his advantage (more so if he's married to Adda), would Anais under Natalis be capable of uniting the fragmented nobles under one banner against Nilfgaard?

Still feels weird seeing Roche in a Redanian outfit.

#12594
Joy Divison

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I just started playing The Witcher2 bc/ of all the good things I heard about it. I really hope the avoiding the ploughing dragon part in the prologue is an anomaly.

#12595
KnightofPhoenix

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So I finished Mass Effect 3. Was laughing my ass off throughout the ending.
Ah Bioware, just when I thought you couldn't possibly get worse.

@ Joy Division
I think you'll enjoy it a lot. Don't read what's below if you mind spoilers.


Dave of Canada wrote...
Radovid's plan to unite Redenia and Temeria seems strong, possibly for the best and could create a greater future but I heavily doubt the fractured Temeria would bow down to his rule. Last thing we need at the moment is complete and total war between Redenia and shattered Temeria (though wouldn't stand a chance) with Nilfgaard looming over them.


SPOILERS!

We know that the Temerian lords almost united when the Anais card was still on the table. The problem with Natalis is him not being able to keep the nobility in line as they would try to control her. That is not the case with Radovid.

Nilfgaard will definitely try to sow civil war in Temeria and we know from past examples that when civil wars or conflicts break out, there is at least one faciton tht always turns to imperial protection. But Radovid has several cards up his sleeve. He has a strong army and the order of the Flaming rose under his command and as Roche says, the nobility needs to feel a boot on their neck. He has Anais, granting him official legitimacy and I think the common people would probably support him. He potentially has Aryan La Valette on his side if he was spared, and Adda as well. Furthermore, with the Nilfgaardians invading, I think most nobles will fall in line.
 
Indeed there is a screenshot with Radovid in Vizima, with Temerian soldiers bowing down before him. I don't think his pacific take over of Temeria will meet that much resistance.

So in my opinion, it's definitely the best outcome, for both Temeria and the North.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 22 mars 2012 - 03:22 .


#12596
Costin_Razvan

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I can see why you wouldn't be a fan of the gameplay in that missions, but why do you think the goodbyes suck?

I am really looking foward to the game outros of TW2. I think Roche looks better in Redenian armor then in the Temerian one.

Then again I am biased against France, and that flag Temeria has? Yeah it's the Medieval French one.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 22 mars 2012 - 12:01 .


#12597
KnightofPhoenix

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Costin_Razvan wrote...

I can see why you wouldn't be a fan of the gameplay in that missions, but why do you think the goodbyes suck?


Because I felt nothing. What they said is forgettable (I literraly forgot already) and on top of it all, there was no good music that went along with it. The fact that Wrex didn't have a convo was a disgrace.

There was only one exception and that was Garrus, his goodbye was excellent.

#12598
Costin_Razvan

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Hmm, did you get Javik by that point? I dunno really liked his goodbye but I think you need to interact with him over the course of the game to get the most of it.

But yeah Garrus was really good. I really liked Tali myself, I think that was really good if you romanced her, on the fence with Kaidan and James, though kinda like Kaidan quite a bit. I also liked EDI a LOT. Shepard asking her if she is afraid.. and EDI's response, well I liked that.

The music is there it's just subtle unlike Origins. I think the Renegade goodbyes are the best though...Paragon...well they just suck.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 22 mars 2012 - 02:01 .


#12599
KnightofPhoenix

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Javik could have been good, I just didn't have him until late.

The music was horrible at conveying an ambiance (throughout the entire endgame). Either way I felt nothing.
I was mostly renegade and felt it was weak. The renegade speech was boring and bad, but I saw the paragon one and it's ridiculous.

In that regard, I am afraid to say that even ME2 surpassed it.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 22 mars 2012 - 02:08 .


#12600
Costin_Razvan

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Fair enough then. I liked the music there myself, and I certainly prefer Earth over the Suicide Mission. To me making a mission like the suicide one or Of his Blood and Bone where the music is the only thing going for the actual battles, and not the challenge itself ( to put it frankly, yes it's epic to charge in there with Roche, but the NPCs you fight? Pathetic, same goes for the Collector Drones ) I personally don't care about epicness, I care about getting a real challenge. 

Earth is a real fun challenge when you have goddamn brutes and banshees swarming you. 

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 22 mars 2012 - 02:29 .