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[TEWR]

History -- to me -- cannot be taught merely by reading about it. You need a teacher that makes history interesting.

When I was in high school, all four of my history teachers made the subject interesting by teaching it in their own unique way.

Because of that, I ended up enjoying the topic immensely and history is and forever shall be my favorite school subject.

Shame that as of today I can't actually remember what I learned, but I attribute that more to things that have happened in the last year or two that took precedence and made what I learned unimportant in comparison -- not that what I learned was unimportant, but at the time it wasn't on my "You must retain this!" list of things that my mind had.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 25 mars 2012 - 05:53 .

[Addai]

Joy Divison wrote...

KoP - sorry to tell you the profession has been trending away from your preferred direction for the past 40 some odd years and I see no sign of it abating.  Lots of institutions no longer even have a military historian.  I remember sitting in a seminar with over a dozen people and I was the only one who knew what a cataphract was.  And I study the ****s...

Oh, I forgot to say- your colleagues should play some Mount and Blade.  :happy:

It's not my kind of gameplay, but husband is very into it and I appreciate that they try to take as much an historical approach to things like arms and armor as their engine will allow.  The history section of their forums (Taleworlds) makes for interesting reading.

[Addai]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

History -- to me -- cannot be taught merely by reading about it. You need a teacher that makes history interesting.

Not for me, I learn better on my own through a combination of reading and writing. I did have some good professors, but the best lesson I ever had was from my German medieval literature prof who took part of a lecture to instruct on study methods and advanced literacy.  That hour was worth more than anything else I did that semester.

[TEWR]

Addai67 wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

History -- to me -- cannot be taught merely by reading about it. You need a teacher that makes history interesting.

Not for me, I learn better on my own through a combination of reading and writing.

Well, I mean just that for you to really take much of a vested interest in the subject, it helps to have a teacher that makes it interesting. Otherwise, reading doesn't seem to do much for you. You'll read it, but you won't care about it enough to remember it.

Of course, that's just from my experience at my high school based on how my friends reacted, so it might differ for people elsewhere.

And I did something similar my freshman year. Though my teacher made the class interesting and I managed to retain much of what was taught in the class, I found that he would often put questions on the quizzes or tests that weren't in what he presented to us, but in the textbook. So I made it a point to read the lessons and create my own study guides for them every time a new lesson came up.

It certainly helped me remember things doing that. Well, everything except the map tests we had to take. I would always fail those. Having to memorize all of Africa and knowing which countries were where on a blank map was something I could not do sadly.

So in retrospect, it wasn't just the fact that my teachers made history interesting that helped me learn it, but also reading the lesson and jotting down my own notes my way.

If that makes sense.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 25 mars 2012 - 06:34 .

[Dave of Canada]

Unfortunately, history where I'm from was usually involved Hitler being a "bad man". Left me with an unfavourable taste in my mouth as we only covered that aspect of WW2 and little else, not even including alternative point of views and facts (actually, they were discouraged. Anything that wasn't mentioned in class immediately garnered you a failing mark).

Biggest regret is not dismissing the teachers as ignorant morons, I didn't take any history classes afterwards and completely ignored it until about two years ago.

[Joy Divison]

Hanz54321 wrote...

Joy, I don't know if it's necessarily historians that make history boring, or people's inability to connect it to their lives. Lots of folks can't even make the connection from CURRENT eventsand their lives. Too self involved.

It is my belief a good teacher can make any subject connect with their students.  Likewise, a bad teacher can turn off a student to a subject they are ostensibly interested in. I've taken enough pedagody courses and had enough experience teaching boring crap to recognize this.  I might never get someone who just doesn't find history exciting to like it and buy a book on their own, but I can get them to genuinely want to come to class and at least appreciate how history can help them see the world a little differently before they met me.

[Costin_Razvan]

Most of my history teachers were just bad and uninteresting.

There are two I remember though, and both were in my general school ( I changed schools once ).

One was an old woman in her fifties who would have us write down a dozen or so long pages every hour, my hand always would hurt after that but I learned good history through that.

Then the second one was an old man where every single class would have him telling us history like it was a great story. He talked of World War II, Antonescu and Hitler in great detail. It was the only class besides math where I actually gave a damn to listen to what the teacher was saying the entire hour.

After that well...all the history teachers were ****. I learned more from those two about real history then I did from every other teacher combined. I am not afraid to admit this btw, but I was kinda like Hermione when it came to my history manual. Once I got it I would read it fully and memorize it. Made history classes dull.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 25 mars 2012 - 02:27 .

[tklivory]

My U.S. History teacher was the Junior Varsity football coach. It was literally: read chapter, make outline, take test. To this day, I have little interest in U.S. History, but *love* any other part of the world (I've even tried to slog through Confucius' 'version' of Chinese history, fer cryin' out loud). So... yeah, a bad teacher can *really* destroy history, and a good teacher can really engage you, but in the end the best way to experience history is to start on your own, and seek out good mentors and good books on your own (I think).

My interest in history started, for example, when I started reading (of all things) the Cartoon History of the Universe books, and went from there...

[Costin_Razvan]

Speaking about history, anyone here who watches Spartacus Blood and Sand? First season was really iffy on many historical elements, but in Season 2 and Gods of the Arena they really got it nailed down for the most part.

[tklivory]

I can't watch it actively, but I watched the first season and put it in the same category as 'Rome' - very off historically, but a good cast and solid writing. Did it get better after that? i intended to watch it, but majorly lost free time starting in December.

Also, 7 days? D:

[Costin_Razvan]

Historically? Yes it does get a lot better in Season 2.

[tklivory]

Hmmm, I'll have to move it up in my little queue of 'things to watch', then.

Speaking of historical TV, I've tried to watch the Tudors and couldn't get into it (outside of the opening scene with the assassination). Anyone have that reaction as well? It's not the accuracy or lack of it that got to me so much as the... inappropriate characterizations, I guess, odd as that might sound. Well, except Sam Niell. But he's usually coo'.

Any other 'historical' TV anyone would recommend? I love Rome and I Clavidvs (as I called it as a kid), but I tend not to watch TV at all, so I could have missed something and not even know it...

[Costin_Razvan]

The second season was pretty good historically...well except for certain details but nowhere near as off as the first one.

[KnightofPhoenix]

tklivory wrote...
Any other 'historical' TV anyone would recommend? I love Rome and I Clavidvs (as I called it as a kid), but I tend not to watch TV at all, so I could have missed something and not even know it...

If you spoke Arabic, I'd have a lot to recommend.

[Addai]

tklivory wrote...

Hmmm, I'll have to move it up in my little queue of 'things to watch', then.

Speaking of historical TV, I've tried to watch the Tudors and couldn't get into it (outside of the opening scene with the assassination). Anyone have that reaction as well? It's not the accuracy or lack of it that got to me so much as the... inappropriate characterizations, I guess, odd as that might sound. Well, except Sam Niell. But he's usually coo'.

Any other 'historical' TV anyone would recommend? I love Rome and I Clavidvs (as I called it as a kid), but I tend not to watch TV at all, so I could have missed something and not even know it...

I liked the Tudors.  They changed some things and it had a lot of skin, but all in all I enjoyed it and thought the main actor did a great job with Henry.

I can't really recommend any historical shows otherwise.  Haven't seen Spartacus.  Most historical TV and films are terribad.  I did like the film Mongol which we watched recently- such a beautiful film.  I didn't like the story of The Eagle but it wasn't as bad as most.  It's more modern, WWI era, but I liked Downton Abbey.

[Costin_Razvan]

Besides being quite good historically ( besides Season 1 ) Spartacus just has so many well written and complex characters like these two:

Ashur - An Assyrian slave who ultimately is magnificent bastard



Batiatus - A roman lanista who wants to rise above his station.



And finally Lucretia ( Lucy Lawless ) - Batiatus's wife.

[TEWR]

I don't know very many historically accurate TV shows, but I do want to say that the showed called The Borgias has caught my interest.

Might just be because of Jeremy Irons though .

Set in a real time from our past and focusing on a real family that had one of its members ascend to the papal throne, wherein said person tries to maintain his power.

Don't know how accurate it is, since history is something I haven't brushed up on in a long time. I'll do some reading on the Borgia family's history and see if the show is accurate or just a nice fictional take using some real historical throwins here and there.

EDIT: I think the reason history is something I don't really know too well these days is because of how condensed and misinformed it sometimes is/was in schools. Or so it felt when I was taking history. Does anyone have any recommendations for good, solid, historically accurate books? Dealing with anything really (wars, religion, military, etc.)

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 07 avril 2012 - 05:15 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
EDIT: I think the reason history is something I don't really know too well these days is because of how condensed and misinformed it sometimes is/was in schools. Or so it felt when I was taking history. Does anyone have any recommendations for good, solid, historically accurate books? Dealing with anything really (wars, religion, military, etc.)

I'm currently still reading through Empires at War (3 volumes) that provides a  short summary of the militaries of major polities from the Akkadians all the way up to the Ottomans. It also provides a list of suggested readings after every chapter if one is interested in looking at it in depth.

I find it interesting and as was said earlier in this thread, military history is sadly very under-studied. It is interesting to see how seemingly very small innovations could drastically change the face of warfare and policy making.


Back to video-gaming, I must express my admiration for Master Sun Li, the Glorious Strategist from Jade Empire (which I've only recently played). Definitely in my top 5 antagonists.

In fact, I am not sure whether he ranks higher than Loghain (who was previously 3rd), equal or lower. I sympathize with Loghain more, but Master Li is much more impressive and the story revolved around him more (sadly the civil war was always in the background in Origins).

I am right now leaning towards saying that Master Li is my 3rd favorite antagonist and that Loghain downgraded to 4rth place, but I am reminded by all the debates and discussions we've had about Loghain that truly mark him as a complex and interesting character.  Makes it hard.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 09 avril 2012 - 07:09 .

[Addai]

EWR, I don't think there is any one book which will give you what you're looking for. As we said a few pages back, historical awareness is something that comes after much plugging away, coming at the same topics from different angles. You're right that most historical textbooks should just be thrown into the garbage. They're more a testament to "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing" IMO.

So I'd have to ask you what subject matter or region or time period you'd like to learn more about. I guess since medieval is my focus I'll say that I think Norman Cantor's Civilization of the Middle Ages is a good foundational survey. The only thing he gets horribly wrong is to dismiss Byzantine history as irrelevant. The husband-wife team of Joseph and Frances Gies also write good popular works on medieval history. I liked their Life in a Medieval Village and Life in a Medieval City. I am also a fan of Barbara Hanawalt for medieval social history, like her The Ties That Bound which looks at latest research on English peasant life. If you want a fun little read that will explode most of the common myths about medieval history, try Regine Pernoud's Those Terrible Middle Ages. She's a French archivist, and writes with a dry wit that I love. That book is so small it's more like a pamphlet, but should be required reading instead of the stuff schools usually teach from.

My recent purchases that I am most excited about are Hans Delbrück's survey of military history. I think there are 5 volumes total though I only got Warfare in Antiquity, The Barbarian Invasions and Medieval Warfare.

BTW are any of you on Goodreads?  If so, friend me please. 

KoP- are the books you're reading written by Richard Gabriel?  If so, I've also been reading a book of his, or rather one he co-authored, called Great Battles of Antiquity.

Modifié par Addai67, 09 avril 2012 - 10:48 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Addai67 wrote...
KoP- are the books you're reading written by Richard Gabriel?  If so, I've also been reading a book of his, or rather one he co-authored, called Great Battles of Antiquity.

Yes, that's the one.
I read several of his books. He is good as a military historian and provides a perspective I consider very crucial, but I find him less than adequate in other dimensions when he goes out of his way to talk about them.

[Addai]

I see he even wrote a book on Muhammad as general.

Have you guys played Rome Total War?

[KnightofPhoenix]

Yea that's one of his books that I read. Liked it, despite innacuracies and weak conjectures here and there when he's trying to talk about non-military issues. But I did appreciate his book as Muhammad's military career is under-studied, within and without the "Muslim world."   But I'd only recommend it after reading more general and encompassing biographies of the man.

And no I haven't played any of the Total War games. I was initially interested in buying Shogun, but truth be told I am not a huge fan of late medieval Japan.

I'd most likely buy Rome 2 when / if it comes out.

[Addai]

Apparently there's a fan-made mod called Europa Barbarum that's supposed to be pretty well researched. That's what caught my interest.

Mr. Addai prefers Mount and Blade.